Jamarcus Russel

eagle eye · 05-10-2009 7:52pm

I was expecting the Raiders to get very close yesterday if not beat the Texans. Houston have given up huge yardage to the run every week so far and the Raiders are not short of talent in that department. This loss has to go down to the coaches and the OL. I didn't see the game and don't know how many attempts they made to run the ball but you'd expect that a team would run it all day against Houston.

Just think about it, the worst run defense in the league gave up 45 yards to a team that has Darren McFadden, Justin Fargas and Michael Bush. I'm sorry but thats not good enough and the coaches have to take the blame more than anybody. Jamarcus Russel should have spent yesterday handing the ball off to a successful rushing offense.

TheHeadhunter · 05-10-2009 8:50pm

A lot of the failure on the ground yesterday can be tied to russell's struggles. All the texans D had to do was stack the box and make russell beat them through the air, which he was never and will never be able to do! Opponents know that the we now have to rely on the run because OffTheMarcus couldnt hit the wideside of a barn door. (although has to be said there were a few unacceptable drops from receivers yesterday).

TheHeadhunter · 06-10-2009 7:29pm

Russell situation is worse than described

Posted by Mike Florio on October 6, 2009 12:51 PM ET

Boomer Esiason of CBS recently lifted the lid on the problems with Raiders quarterback JaMarcus Russell. Esiason said on Sunday's The NFL Today that Russell has been "fined heavily" for showing up late for multiple meetings, being overweight, and missing one meeting.

A league source tells us that it's even worse.

Per the source, Russell has missed multiple meetings, and that he has missed multiple other activities. His behavior has been described to us as a "pattern not an aberration."

It's a horrible development regarding Russell's, well, development. And it's surely not what coach Tom Cable had in mind when he said this in March: "If he can accept the responsibility of being an NFL quarterback, I think that's working more, working harder, working longer than everybody else, accepting the responsibility that his teammates look to him as the face of the organization, that he has to go above and beyond almost on a daily basis, I think that comes with that position, whether that's right or wrong, that's what it is. . . . If he can accept that and become that, he'll be fine. . . . I think thus far in the offseason he's been around more than ever. He was never around like this on his own, just watching tape, studying, so that's a step in the right direction. I think he has to embrace that, though, for him to be what he should be."

Clearly, Russell hasn't embraced the realities of his job. And so the question will be whether the Raiders are going to stay the course with Russell, or whether they're going to fix this mess before it gets even worse.

christ almighty he has got to go.

quote from: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/10/06/russell-situation-is-worse-than-described/

Max Power1 · 06-10-2009 8:39pm

its worse Jamarcus is getting.

CUT - HIM - PLEASE!!

ReacherCreature · 06-10-2009 9:27pm

Max Power1 wrote: »

its worse Jamarcus is getting.

CUT - HIM - PLEASE!!

Just a query, wouldn't the Raiders have to pay out the remains of his rookie contract or is there a deal out? (Which was fairly big iirc)

eagle eye · 06-10-2009 10:13pm

ReacherCreature wrote: »

Just a query, wouldn't the Raiders have to pay out the remains of his rookie contract or is there a deal out? (Which was fairly big iirc)

The would have to pay him whatever is left of the guaranteed money afaik.

eagle eye · 06-10-2009 10:20pm

Just on Russel again. If all these things about him being consistently late for practice and all the other stuff are true then the guy is not doing himself any favours. I'd still hang on to him until the end of the year.

As things stand you are going to end up with a very high pick in the draft and possibly have all of Tebow, Bradford, McCoy, Snead, Clausen and Locker available.

Probably the richest draft class of QBs in a long, long time.

Max Power1 · 06-10-2009 10:27pm

ReacherCreature wrote: »

Just a query, wouldn't the Raiders have to pay out the remains of his rookie contract or is there a deal out? (Which was fairly big iirc)

its all the guaranteed money , and this would all count against the cap in the year after he was cut. I dont think the raiders are close to the cap yhough I could be wrong

ReacherCreature · 06-10-2009 10:31pm

I reckon Raiders should hod on to him for the season at least unless any backups or free agents come in, already know the system and can contribute to the organisation. Which sounds easier said than done imo. You also wouldn't have to pay him as much as he'll have one more season under his belt. Russell might scrape out a couple of wins yet. :pac:

D3PO · 06-10-2009 10:54pm

eagle eye wrote: »

Probably the richest draft class of QBs in a long, long time.

This QB draft class coming isnt even close to that of Eli, Rivers and Big Ben from 6 years ago

D3PO · 06-10-2009 10:55pm

Max Power1 wrote: »

its all the guaranteed money , and this would all count against the cap in the year after he was cut. I dont think the raiders are close to the cap yhough I could be wrong

next year could be uncapped. if your going to dump him now is the time

The Munky · 06-10-2009 11:01pm

D3PO wrote: »

This QB draft class coming isnt even close to that of Eli, Rivers and Big Ben from 6 years ago

How can you say that?

hindsight is a great addition to knowledge and useless statements.... You have no idea how these guys are gonna perform if they make the NFL, they could infact be better - I doubt it myself but I won't be daft enough to make a completely unfounded statement such as that...

Max Power1 · 06-10-2009 11:02pm

ReacherCreature wrote: »

I reckon Raiders should hod on to him for the season at least unless any backups or free agents come in, already know the system and can contribute to the organisation. Which sounds easier said than done imo. You also wouldn't have to pay him as much as he'll have one more season under his belt. Russell might scrape out a couple of wins yet. :pac:

id sooner play charlie frye (do we still have him?) then play russell for another week

Max Power1 · 06-10-2009 11:05pm

The Munky wrote: »

How can you say that?

hindsight is a great addition to knowledge and useless statements.... You have no idea how these guys are gonna perform if they make the NFL, they could infact be better - I doubt it myself but I won't be daft enough to make a completely unfounded statement such as that...

Its true though

All the 3 QBS mentioned are perennial pro bowl candidates. Maybe McCoy/CLausen could make it to that level but the odds of 4 or 5 doing so is low.

The Munky · 06-10-2009 11:09pm

Max Power1 wrote: »

Its true though

All the 3 QBS mentioned are perennial pro bowl candidates. Maybe McCoy/CLausen could make it to that level but the odds of 4 or 5 doing so is low.

Yeah but they are 6 years in the league - give these guys a chance to perform before saying they aren't of the quality of the afore-mentioned? agreed no?

ReacherCreature · 06-10-2009 11:14pm

Max Power1 wrote: »

id sooner play charlie frye (do we still have him?) then play russell for another week

Just checked it up, Frye & Gradkowski backing up Russell.

eagle eye · 06-10-2009 11:22pm

D3PO wrote: »

This QB draft class coming isnt even close to that of Eli, Rivers and Big Ben from 6 years ago

Four starters and a big failure out of that one. I don't agree, maybe in hindsight as things stand with two of them having rings, but this class if Clausen comes out as well is a very, very strong class.
Lots of people don't agree with me regarding Tebow, I say he will be a superstar.
I also think Clausen will be huge in the NFL, and Bradford too. I'm not gone on McCoy but there is loads to like about him. Snead has all the looks of a conventional NFL QB and Jake Locker is another guy who could be huge in the NFL.

I think its the best class since the infamous '83 one.

ReacherCreature · 06-10-2009 11:33pm

eagle eye wrote: »

I think its the best class since the infamous '83 one.

That's a huge statement :eek:

Looking forward to see what the experts have to say come Draft time.

heyjude · 06-10-2009 11:43pm

Max Power1 wrote: »

its all the guaranteed money , and this would all count against the cap in the year after he was cut. I dont think the raiders are close to the cap yhough I could be wrong

Wrong on both counts, he is in the third year of a six year contract worth $61m with $32m of that guaranteed.(see http://www.rotoworld.com/Content/playerpages/player_contract.aspx?sport=NFl&id=4154 ) Also AFAIK if a player is on the roster for week one, then his salary is guaranteed for the season. The Raiders are always one of the top spenders and so never have too much cap room to spare .

D3PO wrote: »

next year could be uncapped. if your going to dump him now is the time

If next year is uncapped, then surely cutting him early next year is the obvious thing to do, if you cut him now you would accelerate all his guaranteed money into this year(and his six base salaries are guaranteed) and then you'd have to make other cuts to stay within the cap. If next year is uncapped, then cutting him would obviously have no cap implications except for the cost of paying an unproductive former player.

In any case, Al Davis is notoriously stubborn, Russell is Al's pick and he'd be convinced(though I doubt anyone else would), that if he released Russell then somebody else would snap him up and Russell would become a star elsewhere ! Personally I don't see Russell turning it around, but the management and bad luck haven't exactly helped him, Javon Walker, their only experienced receiver was injured going into the season(now he's fit and Cable won't seem to use him), Chaz Schillens, the 2nd year receiver that looked good in pre-season and the end of last season broke his leg in preseason and is still a week or two from fitness and without them, the wide receiver corp consisted of rookies Darrius Heyward Bey, Louis Murphy, Todd Watkins(a 3rd year player without a reception before this season) and Johnny Lee Higgins(just 5 starts and just 28 catches in his career). So 4 receivers boasting 28 NFL catches between them ! Poor route running and dropped catches have made Russell worse, maybe we'll see if it improves when Schillens returns. Problem is Davis will want Heyward Bey in the starting lineup, so even though Schillens, Walker, Murphy and maybe Higgins are better receivers, Cable won't have much choice. The question is whether Cable or Russell will survive longer, if Cable is jailed or suspended by the NFL then it may give Davis the opportunity to replace him, but which serious coach would want to takeover a team, where the owner dictates the starting QB, starting HB, offensive strategy(vertical game - he hates the west coast offence),the defensive formation and strategy(4-3 man coverage bump and run).

As for claims that they need to ditch Russell and pick one of the top QB prospects in the NFL draft, its worth remembering that the draft is a crapshoot, Russell and Brady Quinn were by far the top two QB prospects going into the 2007 draft and neither has turned into a star, while Al Davis still grates about the team drafting Michael Huff in 2006 when apparently he wanted to pick Matt Leinart(the college star QB drafted in the first round by Arizona and now backing up 38 year old Kurt Warner !) The difference is that while Arizona decided to play the better QB, Davis will play whoever earns the most.

Max Power1 · 07-10-2009 12:45am

heyjude wrote: »

Wrong on both counts, he is in the third year of a six year contract worth $61m with $32m of that guaranteed.(see http://www.rotoworld.com/Content/playerpages/player_contract.aspx?sport=NFl&id=4154 ) Also AFAIK if a player is on the roster for week one, then his salary is guaranteed for the season. The Raiders are always one of the top spenders and so never have too much cap room to spare .

Ok i always presumed it was similar to if a player was traded. Obviously not. Yes once a player is on the roster for week one then the salary is guaranteed for the year.

heyjude wrote:

If next year is uncapped, then surely cutting him early next year is the obvious thing to do, if you cut him now you would accelerate all his guaranteed money into this year(and his six base salaries are guaranteed) and then you'd have to make other cuts to stay within the cap. If next year is uncapped, then cutting him would obviously have no cap implications except for the cost of paying an unproductive former player.

Obviously that would be the best outcome, and certainly one that would make the most sense. However the year may not be uncapped if a new CBA is agreed in time.

heyjude wrote:

In any case, Al Davis is notoriously stubborn, Russell is Al's pick and he'd be convinced(though I doubt anyone else would), that if he released Russell then somebody else would snap him up and Russell would become a star elsewhere !

We all know how il-logical Al Davis can be at the best of times. But even he must have a point where he realises that a QB with a sub 40% completion rate in the make or break 3rd year in the league isnt going to cut it!

heyjude wrote:

Personally I don't see Russell turning it around, but the management and bad luck haven't exactly helped him, Javon Walker, their only experienced receiver was injured going into the season(now he's fit and Cable won't seem to use him), Chaz Schillens, the 2nd year receiver that looked good in pre-season and the end of last season broke his leg in preseason and is still a week or two from fitness and without them, the wide receiver corp consisted of rookies Darrius Heyward Bey, Louis Murphy, Todd Watkins(a 3rd year player without a reception before this season) and Johnny Lee Higgins(just 5 starts and just 28 catches in his career). So 4 receivers boasting 28 NFL catches between them ! Poor route running and dropped catches have made Russell worse, maybe we'll see if it improves when Schillens returns. Problem is Davis will want Heyward Bey in the starting lineup, so even though Schillens, Walker, Murphy and maybe Higgins are better receivers, Cable won't have much choice. The question is whether Cable or Russell will survive longer, if Cable is jailed or suspended by the NFL then it may give Davis the opportunity to replace him, but which serious coach would want to takeover a team, where the owner dictates the starting QB, starting HB, offensive strategy(vertical game - he hates the west coast offence),the defensive formation and strategy(4-3 man coverage bump and run).

As for claims that they need to ditch Russell and pick one of the top QB prospects in the NFL draft, its worth remembering that the draft is a crapshoot, Russell and Brady Quinn were by far the top two QB prospects going into the 2007 draft and neither has turned into a star, while Al Davis still grates about the team drafting Michael Huff in 2006 when apparently he wanted to pick Matt Leinart(the college star QB drafted in the first round by Arizona and now backing up 38 year old Kurt Warner !) The difference is that while Arizona decided to play the better QB, Davis will play whoever earns the most.

We can make whatever excuses we want but the bottom line is he hasnt shown the ability, or more worryingly, the attitude, needed to be a good (hell even an average) QB in the NFL. I'd take the likes of Smith/Leinart over Russell anyday.

tallaghtoutlaws · 07-10-2009 12:53am

Let me ask Raiders fans this. Im not a big fan of Russell but ask yourself this:

Do you think right now bringing in another QB is your answer? Seriously?

Right now the team is a train wreck and if it were not for the Defense would be disastor of massive proportions. I do agree Russell isnt helping at all but Im just not convinced enough to use him as a scapegoat. Alot of evidence including Garcia have pointed towards lack of harmony and the want to win. The paycheck thing has come up so many times and Garcia wasnt the first to say it.

I just think until Davis stops medaling with the team like the coach he wants to be the Raiders are doomed to the same old same old. To be honest I dont think Colt McCoy or Tim Tebow or any future QB will be your answer.

What is needed:

- Al Davis to be an onwer and just that.
- A better Head Coach. Sure Cable licks Davis a$$ but is not a head coach
- And a QB with experience who can rally the troops under a new system Davis free.

Raiders fans seem to want a quick fix right now and sadly i dont think a quick fix is the answer. Maybe im wrong. But it is my opinion.

LuckyLloyd · 07-10-2009 2:07am

Hey heyjude, great post!

davyjose wrote: »

For someone relatively new to the game, when did Al Davis become such a bad owner? He has 3 rings, and was in the Super Bowl 6 years ago (when the Raiders were consistently AFC West Champs). What the hell happened them?

He has been an ever more horrendous owner since he became obsessed with acquiring (either through the draft or FA) players with huge, ridiculous measurables (size, strength, speed) in ignorance of their less than stellar all round performances on the football field. He's all about having these magnificent athletes on the roster - and displays little or no interest in building strong foundations either in terms of cohesion of characters in the dressing room or consistency of coaching staff.

D3PO · 07-10-2009 9:31am

The Munky wrote: »

How can you say that?

hindsight is a great addition to knowledge and useless statements.... You have no idea how these guys are gonna perform if they make the NFL, they could infact be better - I doubt it myself but I won't be daft enough to make a completely unfounded statement such as that...

ok so when next years draft QB class win 3 rings between them in their first 6 years I will retract my statement.

its not fact but its a pretty good view that these guys wont compete at that level, besides theres a lot of hype over some of those QB's who really arent suited to the NFL in my opinion.

There is hype every year in fairness.

Hype over Leinhart - not made it

Hype over quinn and russell - not made it

Hype over Smith - not made it

granted last year was a good one with Ryan and Flacco & this year could be similar with Stafford & Sanchez (and admittededly I thought Sanchez was overhyped and that Pat white was better suited to the NFL)

so i could be wrong but I dont think next years class will be amazing but then thats just my opinion.

ReacherCreature · 07-10-2009 9:56am

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

What is needed:

- Al Davis to be an onwer and just that.
- A better Head Coach. Sure Cable licks Davis a$$ but is not a head coach
- And a QB with experience who can rally the troops under a new system Davis free.

Good point but say, hypothically, it's implemented will Davis actually agree on that? I highly doubt it knowing him.

tallaghtoutlaws · 07-10-2009 2:31pm

ReacherCreature wrote: »

Good point but say, hypothically, it's implemented will Davis actually agree on that? I highly doubt it knowing him.

Well if he doesn't the Shambles that is the Raiders will continue on until he dies.

ReacherCreature · 07-10-2009 5:30pm

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Well if he doesn't the Shambles that is the Raiders will continue on until he dies.

...which I reckon is never. Al Davis will probably buy another shot at life.

TheHeadhunter · 07-10-2009 5:46pm

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Do you think right now bringing in another QB is your answer? Seriously?

In short, Yes.

tallaghtoutlaws · 07-10-2009 6:02pm

TheHeadhunter wrote: »

In short, Yes.

Good to see you elaborated on it? I was merely looking for a discussional point of view:

Why I dont think short term will not make a difference:

- The new QB will have to get to know the current system and playbook midseason

- He wont be in sync with his WR

- He wont get alot of protection

- And I see the Raiders failures as a team thing and not just JMR. You cant completely blame him for the demise of the Raiders when in truth they havent had a winning season since 2002.

2003 2003 NFL AFC West 3rd 4 12 0
2004 2004 NFL AFC West 4th 5 11 0
2005 2005 NFL AFC West 4th 4 12 0
2006 2006 NFL AFC West 4th 2 14 0
2007 2007 NFL AFC West 4th 4 12 0
2008 2008 NFL AFC West 3rd 5 11 0

So blaming it all on JMR right now is redonculous and whatever QB comes in in truth wont do much better. What weapons will he have that will make it any different than JMR now?

The sad thing is any other team who have been choking over the span of 6 years will admit their faults but it some Raiders fans are as dilusional as Al Davis in a bad way. Sure every team has idiot dilusional fans take the Pats we have many clowns that are so far up the Pats ass and cant see the faults its no longer funny. But pretending the Organisation hasnt got a problem in Oakland is insane.

davyjose · 07-10-2009 7:00pm

D3PO wrote: »

This QB draft class coming isnt even close to that of Eli, Rivers and Big Ben from 6 years ago

I think that we're looking at the best bunch of college QB's in a long, long time. Whether they'll be as good in the nfl as those three remains to be seen. They've set high standards. But in terms of their college careers, they ain't as good as 2009 IMO

TheHeadhunter · 07-10-2009 8:05pm

Sorry tallaght didnt mean to seem rude.

I dont think he has what it takes to be honest and with him under centre i dont see us winning many games at all.

He hasnt shown any significant progress at all, infact if anything he has regressed even with Paul Hackett as his QB coach.

He is extremely lazy with stories surfacing that he regularly misses meetings and late to practices this is not acceptable from a 10 year vet let alone a guy who is struggling to live up to his status as a #1 overall draft pick.

The QB has to be the leader of any organisastion and he hasnt shown anything to that effect, (Greg Ellis was trying to get the offense fired up on the sidelines last sunday!)

The rest of the team aren't stupid and im quite sure they feel he is holding this team back.

I would hand it over to Gradkowski after week 6 or 7 if OffTheMarcus hasnt improved by then. Gradkowski isn't ideal at all but i genuinely believe he gives us a better chance to win than russell and would only serve as a stop gap until the summers free agency where we could look to a veteran QB (not a 39 year old ie: jeff garcia). Or address the position in the draft ideally in the 1st round but wont happen.

Jamarcus Russel

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