National Postcodes to be introduced

ukoda

Eircode just released a 104 page product guide that goes into great detail, they also said pricing and sample database will be available soon

I'll try upload somewhere and get a link to post here



By the way - i have this as i registered my intetrest on the Eircode website, and they emailed this to me today

ukoda

my thoughts on reading it:

• Database size is 150mb compressed and approx 2gb uncompressed - grand for sat navs
  
• It has error checking built in to know that theres an address mis-match and it can validate that the eircode is mis spelt and correct it
  
• Page 46 covers the queries that you can run on the database, something loc8 could never give the country.

I'll say it again, a national postcode needs to be tied to database to make it useful for more than package delivery

Im pretty impressed upon reading this

larchill

Certainly very comprehensive with checks built in. It resembles the Geodirectory structures. You'd need to know your SQL, & relational database stuff to understand some of it though. Anyway, it would appear that things are progressing :cool:

Carawaystick

150 mb or 150 MB? factor of 8 difference there....

ukoda

Carawaystick wrote: »

150 mb or 150 MB? factor of 8 difference there....

Mb* apologies

YossiA

Great idea, just registered with them. Seems they will not charge for entry to daily draw but will make their money from advertising. Why didn't I think of that

irishgeo

Is the guy still moaning about loc8.i suppose it could be a pretty slump in use when it happens.

The problem is a lot of UK sites won't sign up for it and the post codes boxes will still be verified against the UK ones and reject Irish ones.

ukoda

irishgeo wrote: »

The problem is a lot of UK sites won't sign up for it and the post codes boxes will still be verified against the UK ones and reject Irish ones.

Most websites ask you what country you want it delivered to first, if you select an non UK country the postcode field is usually free text that's not validated, so it should be ok

murpho999

irishgeo wrote: »

Is the guy still moaning about loc8.i suppose it could be a pretty slump in use when it happens.

The problem is a lot of UK sites won't sign up for it and the post codes boxes will still be verified against the UK ones and reject Irish ones.

Why would this happen when the Ireland is not part of the UK ones?

Really, people are coming up with problems that just won't happen.

I still fail to see what's wrong with forthcoming system and am convinced that it's just people being cranks about it.

For example, emergency services stating that the postcode will only bring you to a building and not a location, like a spot on a road.

What part of it being a "Post" code do they not understand, and if someone is in an emergency at the side of the road how are they supposed to know what postcode they are in? Ridiculous complaint that can be is being confused with GPS.

recedite

ukoda wrote: »

I'll say it again, a national postcode needs to be tied to database to make it useful for more than package delivery

Repeating your statement over and over again doesn't make it true.
So eircode seems to allow for only one address point (one code) at a university campus. So lets say there was an emergency at one particular building at UCD, how does quoting the single university code help the emergency workers to achieve a quicker response time?
On the other hand, a single block of apartments with one entrance could have 50 different codes.

The reality is, the "eircode + database" combination will be excellent to keep track of property tax, water charges, and also for compiling marketing statistics for junk mail etc.
It will be less than ideal, and arguably "not fit for purpose" overall when it comes to delivery of packages by a courier, and for use by emergency services. This is because for any location not involving an "address point" it is totally useless.

ukoda

recedite wrote: »

Repeating your statement over and over again doesn't make it true.
So eircode seems to allow for only one address point (one code) at a university campus. So lets say there was an emergency at one particular building at UCD, how does quoting the single university code help the emergency workers to achieve a quicker response time?
On the other hand, a single block of apartments with one entrance could have 50 different codes.

The reality is, the "eircode + database" combination will be excellent to keep track of property tax, water charges, and also for compiling marketing statistics for junk mail etc.
It will be less than ideal, and arguably "not fit for purpose" overall when it comes to delivery of packages by a courier, and for use by emergency services. This is because for any location not involving an "address point" it is totally useless.

and you repeating the same old "problems" doesn't make them eircodes problems

I've provided a link to what the EU are doing to transmit locations to emergency services as the person is calling, it was discussed a few pages back. that will solve the problem you raise

Loc8 code is not going to be any use in an emergency as its awkward and cumbersome to use, requires a third party app, requires education on the callers part and requires the caller to generate and memorise a code to be repeated back to a call centre. The E112 solution requires none of that and is extremely user friendly, hence why the EU are looking at implementing it.

The database isn't needed to keep track of any water/property tax etc, each has there own tracking system.

what it will be useful for is planning and providing services and being a "bible" for address references and locations thats an official source.

ukoda

ukoda wrote: »

Most websites ask you what country you want it delivered to first, if you select an non UK country the postcode field is usually free text that's not validated, so it should be ok

True, but you usually have to have something in the box for the site to work.
Can make for some quite creative Made up postcodes

a65b2cd

Found this article on loc8 https:// www. loc8.com/about/

Didn't realise it was Australian owned:

Back in 2004 our founders, Owen and David, believed there had to be a better way to collect asset data in the field. With a keen interest in mapping and GIS systems, they began developing the first Loc8 mobile application while working in a downstairs verandah at Owen's house. Smartpath and the Loc8 framework were born.

A few years later, with a core team of ten and a common desire to work in a creative, open and flexible business, the Loc8.com editions were released to enterprise organisations.

These days that group of ten are still with us, along with many new staff located in our offices in Sydney, Melbourne, London, and New York.

yuloni

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SpaceTime

To be realistic, the UK and US websites that won't accept non-local postcodes and zip codes are not likely to change just because we now have postcodes.

If a UK address is checking non UK codes against the UK post office database that's just stupid. It should know when you select the country as anything other than UK that it shouldn't do that.

The one that drives me mad is official EU agency forms that give insufficient space for any Irish or British addresses.

Something like

Street

---

Number

---

Postcode

---

City

---

Because we all apparently live in Belgium or Germany.

I've also had US sites refuse anything other than a phone number in the format (xxx) xxx xxxx

Poor website design will always be an issue when people don't bother to think beyond their own local market yet try to trade internationally.

Curly Judge

SpaceTime wrote: »

To be realistic, the UK and US websites that won't accept non-local postcodes and zip codes are not likely to change just because we now have postcodes.

If a UK address is checking non UK codes against the UK post office database that's just stupid. It should know when you select the country as anything other than UK that it shouldn't do that.

The one that drives me mad is official EU agency forms that give insufficient space for any Irish or British addresses.

Something like

Street

---

Number

---

Postcode

---

City

---

Because we all apparently live in Belgium or Germany.

I've also had US sites refuse anything other than a phone number in the format (xxx) xxx xxxx

Poor website design will always be an issue when people don't bother to think beyond their own local market yet try to trade internationally.

I've always just written in "none" when asked for a post or zip code.
Seems to have worked most of the time?

SpaceTime

Curly Judge wrote: »

I've always just written in "none" when asked for a post or zip code.
Seems to have worked most of the time?

CORK 02100 is mine

larchill

I've used IRL001.

fricatus

Waterford 90210 for me.

yuloni

This post has been deleted.

ukoda

yuloni wrote: »

As I was driving along this morning I thought quietly to myself that perhaps eircode could be on it's way to becoming another Irish Water


I land home and RTÉ has this!!

http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/1105/657111-eircode/


Good point from Sinn Fein:



Eircode has never been tested or trialled in real-world use cases. Please someone tell me otherwise


Worrying point by Pallet Express:



Pallet Express are one of the big trunkage networks in the country for those not familiar with logistics (there's also PalTrans, Pallet Network, etc...)

His claims of not being approached go against what Capita and Alex White have stated about engaging with all parties

He also mentions the issue of non-sequential codes and how this offers nothing for simple delivery grouping... an example I mentioned a few posts back


ADD: The FTA done a presentation to the Oireachtas today against eircode (http://www.broadsheet.ie/2014/11/05/coded-warning/)

Also, either I'm physic, people are reading my mind or most likely, I sub-consciously heard it on the radio... but there seem to be a few people comparing eircode to Irish Water!

It's funny how the guy from pallet express doesn't think it can help him with deliveries. It just shows how ignorant of its abilities he is. If they pay the few hundred for database access he can do route optimisation easily

Also, I think it's a bit of a stretch to compare it irish water, it's had maybe 2 slightly negative articles online, it's only a handful of people with a vested interest who think its not useful, I don't think we'll see any "no to eircode" protests around the country*


*Well maybe one in Cork...maybe around the crosshaven area...

yuloni

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Impetus

ukoda wrote: »

It's funny how the guy from pallet express doesn't think it can help him with deliveries. It just shows how ignorant of its abilities he is. If they pay the few hundred for database access he can do route optimisation easily

Also, I think it's a bit of a stretch to compare it irish water, it's had maybe 2 slightly negative articles online, it's only a handful of people with a vested interest who think its not useful, I don't think we'll see any "no to eircode" protests around the country*


*Well maybe one in Cork...maybe around the crosshaven area...

In virtually all European countries one has for each address:

Road nam/street name + number
Postcode (ie district number) and town name

1040 route d'Antibes is 100m from 1140 route d'Antibes. No postccode crap necessary - subtract two numbers on the street and you can see how far away they are.

In Ireland townlands can have one or more roads, which can easyily be identified by adding 1, 2, 3 etc after the road name. The houses along the road's name can be given metric numbers. A house 500m down the road from its origin has a house number 500..

06600 Antibes is the town

D22 8GHJ Dublin is meaningless. Expensive to create nationally and useless to truckers, couriers, An Post, visitors, customers, and anybody else who has reason to visit an address.

Ireland has had sequential house numbers for centuries in urban streets. I have never heard of somebody living at number 223 complaining that house number 224 or 225 is just next to them. Why then should postcodes be random? Why should each house have a postcode? No other country on the planet does thiss aside from Iran. How dumb and bureaucratic can it get?

The Eircode is the stupidest, most useless, and expensive code system in the world. Anyone involved with Eircode should resign - do the honourable thing.

Oirish Water style incompetence applied to "postcodes"!

my3cents

Impetus wrote: »

In virtually all European countries one has for each address:

Road nam/street name + number
Postcode (ie district number) and town name

1040 route d'Antibes is 100m from 1140 route d'Antibes. No postccode crap necessary - subtract two numbers on the street and you can see how far away they are.

In Ireland townlands can have one or more roads, which can easyily be identified by adding 1, 2, 3 etc after the road name. The houses along the road's name can be given metric numbers. A house 500m down the road from its origin has a house number 500..

06600 Antibes is the town

D22 8GHJ Dublin is meaningless. Expensive to create nationally and useless to truckers, couriers, An Post, visitors, customers, and anybody else who has reason to visit an address.

Ireland has had sequential house numbers for centuries in urban streets. I have never heard of somebody living at number 223 complaining that house number 224 or 225 is just next to them. Why then should postcodes be random? Why should each house have a postcode? No other country on the planet does thiss aside from Iran. How dumb and bureaucratic can it get?

The Eircode is the stupidest, most useless, and expensive code system in the world. Anyone involved with Eircode should resign - do the honourable thing.

Oirish Water style incompetence applied to "postcodes"!

There have to be unique postcodes for each address because the current address system is such a mess. If UK style postcodes were used in Ireland you could easily have 2 or more houses that still have the same address and same postcode, its even likely there would be houses with the same address same postcode and with occupants with the same surname. Ireland never really embraced the idea of house numbers so now its got to have postcodes that are unique to each address to make up for it.

yuloni

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a65b2cd

yuloni wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

No matter what system is introduced, you can be sequential with only 2 other codes and even that can be fairly meaningless when the code is alphanumeric e.g. xy versus xa. A code in sequence is meaningless particular for something such as delivering parcels. How often does a parcel delivery company deliver to two addresses next door to each other? If it does happen the deliverers might just look at the text address!!!

As previously mentioned the ECAD file can be used to arrange Eircodes by street or house number order if necessary. The very formal structure of the database will permit grouping of codes in many different ways. Of course you have to be willing to pay for the database ...

Tow

yuloni wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

From experience, I can tell you that DPD's Belgium website requires a postcode to be entered to send a parcel to Ireland. It will refuse to take Dublin 7, D7, DUB7 or anything which makes sense. Including DPD's own depot codes. They will quite happily take your parcel if you phone then up, explain the problem and book over the phone. The parcel will be collected and all will go well until the parcel reaches their Belgium depot and it gets sorted. At this point the workers in the depot will see there is no postcode and promptly return the parcel to the senders address...

Sam Russell

my3cents wrote: »

There have to be unique postcodes for each address because the current address system is such a mess. If UK style postcodes were used in Ireland you could easily have 2 or more houses that still have the same address and same postcode, its even likely there would be houses with the same address same postcode and with occupants with the same surname. Ireland never really embraced the idea of house numbers so now its got to have postcodes that are unique to each address to make up for it.

The problem cited here is that we do not have unique addresses for aprox 50% of destinations. You do not solve that with a post code - the underlying problem needs to be solved.

Local authorities (Co. Councils) should be required to sort this out by giving each household their official address, and then errect road signs to reflect this. Maybe it should fall to the Revenue as they collect the property tax from every domestic address, and other taxes from companies. It is a simple problem that is easy to tackle as they managed the property tax quite efficiently.

To implement the postcde system before correcting the address problem is putting the cart before the horse. It is not too late to modify the proposed system to satisfy the problems cited by the likes of DHL the other delivery companies. That afterall is one benefit of computers.

SpaceTime

It's a solution that's solving an entirely unrelated problem.

We need to be able to FIND the locations.

This system just creates a random unique identifier.

It's about as much use as a landline phone number. In fact, you could just link a phone number (landline or mobile) to a database with a map and it would do the same job.

01 = Dublin Area
671 = Central north of the river.
XXXX = random line number.

Or

021 = Cork
427 = Central Island containing the city centre core.
XXXX = random line number.

So basically I can tell as much or possibly more from an eircom landline structure than an eircode.

Bit pointless really.

ukoda

SpaceTime wrote: »

So basically I can tell as much or possibly more from an eircom landline structure than an eircode.

Bit pointless really.

what do you need to tell from it? how will a sequence be of any use to you in your day to day life? pls give a real example of how a sequential code will be of benefit to you?

Someone wants you to vist them, they give you their address which includes eircode, what do you care about the neighbours ericode? nothing?

If you are route planning you use route planning software (which you probaly already have) to optimise a route based on eircodes.

If you wish to group houses, you query the eircode databse (see the examples of queries you can run in the document i posted) theres pretty much a limitless amount of queries.