National Postcodes to be introduced

starlit

SpaceTime wrote: »

Interesting, seems a lack of postal codes resulted in "Shipment arrived at incorrect facility. Sent to correct destination" on DHL.
An item that should have gone to Cork went to Dublin.

Seems a sorting system just saw "Ireland" so sent it to Dublin, even though the shortest route would have been direct to Cork via East midlands.

I've lost track the amount of problems i've had with trying to get things delivered to my house. I've had things delivered to the wrong house. I had to redo an order due to order failing to be delivered so was dispatched back to amazon. If someone bought something for me its sent to my house no bother from amazon yet when I order something from it myself I have awful trouble. Though anything posted through an post/royal mail i've had better luck with than courier services. It be a good thing when they are to introduce the postcodes next Spring is it?

You think with google maps they could make things easier to deliver to rural areas.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/devil-is-in-the-detail-of-new-postcode-system-1.1994401

yuloni

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yuloni

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ukoda

yuloni wrote: »

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i think people are mixing up things here, The case on the Postcode tender is closed and no further action is being taken, the commission are still looking at future procurements and how the government can make changes (or not) depending on what the commission recommends

recedite

So you reckon the govt. and PA consulting have already got away with it.

That might explain why they thought it was alright for PA Consulting to be awarded the contract to oversee the results of their own work.

clewbays

This really does sound serious:

including possible further consultation

and the Fright industry moaning that their office administration needs have not been given priority treatment:

threatened to refer its concerns surrounding Eircode to the ombudsman unless the Government agrees

I am going the dust the abacus and morse code transmitter down.

Chris M

recedite wrote: »

So you reckon the govt. and PA consulting have already got away with it.

That might explain why they thought it was alright for PA Consulting to be awarded the contract to oversee the results of their own work.

Got away with what ? If anyone thinks something is wrong why dont they take a legal case instead of making spurious alligations on internet sites or in news items.

antoinolachtnai

Chris M wrote: »

Got away with what ? If anyone thinks something is wrong why dont they take a legal case instead of making spurious alligations on internet sites or in news items.

What cause for action could they possibly have?

Jack180570

ukoda wrote: »

i think people are mixing up things here, The case on the Postcode tender is closed and no further action is being taken, the commission are still looking at future procurements and how the government can make changes (or not) depending on what the commission recommends

I do not believe that you are correct ukoda, some Dail Committees are investigating the awarding of the Postcode contract (so that is not closed as far as our Dail Committees are concerned). Also the Commission found that the tender was not conducted correctly/fairly.
Are you not concerned that our Government is wasting €25-€100 million paying for someone to design and implement a Postcode when the Government was already offered a proven Postcode (Loc8 Code) for free?
I am shocked that you would think that it is a good idea for us, the taxpayer, to waste money paying for something that was offered to the Government for free... I can only conclude that either you are not an Irish taxpayer or else you stand to gain financially from this irresponsible waste of money...

Jack180570

A general question for contributors here on this topic:
Do you think it is a good idea for the Government to have awarded a multi-million euro contract to a company to design and implement the new 'Eircode' postcode (which may or may not work, remember electronic voting, PPARS, water meters etc), when the Government was already offered a proven, working postcode system (Loc8 Code) for free a number of years ago?

ukoda

Jack180570 wrote: »

I do not believe that you are correct ukoda, some Dail Committees are investigating the awarding of the Postcode contract (so that is not closed as far as our Dail Committees are concerned). Also the Commission found that the tender was not conducted correctly/fairly.
Are you not concerned that our Government is wasting €25-€100 million paying for someone to design and implement a Postcode when the Government was already offered a proven Postcode (Loc8 Code) for free?
I am shocked that you would think that it is a good idea for us, the taxpayer, to waste money paying for something that was offered to the Government for free... I can only conclude that either you are not an Irish taxpayer or else you stand to gain financially from this irresponsible waste of money...

Its proven as a good navigational code. a National Postcode needs more than just a conversion of geo cooridnates to another form of code. It needs an address database to fulfil its other requirements as a postcode. Its not all about navigation. I've nothing to gain here and im an Irish taxpayer and national. I just have an opinion thats different to yours.

And what i stated above was in reference to the EU's case on the postcode tender, which is now closed. thats a fact.

Sam Russell

All that any code needs to become a postcode is to be integrated onto the An Post Geodirectory. So, Eircode is a poor to bad candidate since it misses nearly every requirement of a postcode, and those it meets, any postcode would meet.

So the Loc8 code would be better because it would meet more requirements since it does navigation which Eircode does not at all.

ukoda

Sam Russell wrote: »

All that any code needs to become a postcode is to be integrated onto the An Post Geodirectory. So, Eircode is a poor to bad candidate since it misses nearly every requirement of a postcode, and those it meets, any postcode would meet.

So the Loc8 code would be better because it would meet more requirements since it does navigation which Eircode does not at all.

if you were to assign a loc8 code to each address in the database it would be the exact same as eircode so no difference. The whole idea of Loc8 is that it doesnt need a database, adding it to a database in its current state would, as discussed before, casue chaos with assigned codes and freely generated codes, if you were to lock down loc8 to only codes assosiated with a database, then its the same as eircode, if you allow loc8's to be assigned to a database AND freely generated for any patch of grass...youd have a disaster of a botched system that would confuse the hell outa people, youd have "database assigned" codes and "non database assigned" codes and it would be a nightmare to manage

recedite

ukoda wrote: »

if you were to assign a loc8 code to each address in the database it would be the exact same as eircode so no difference. The whole idea of Loc8 is that it doesnt need a database, adding it to a database in its current state would, as discussed before, casue chaos with assigned codes and freely generated codes, if you were to lock down loc8 to only codes assosiated with a database, then its the same as eircode....

....except that, still being functional for navigation purposes without being connected to the internet or to the database, it would have valuable extra versatility. And of course, there is the extra ability to generate unofficial codes outside the database for anything without an official letterbox, such as a car park, a harbour, or the science block of UCD. None of these can have an eircode.

ukoda

recedite wrote: »

None of these can have an eircode.

Yes they can, they are starting with addresses as that's the priority but they have stated there's plenty of capacity to assign codes to other structures or non structures. They said they will look at this once eircode is established for addresses

a65b2cd

The Oireachtas debate continues with signs of a more positive attitude to the introduction of Eircodes:

The Oireachtas Joint Committee on Transport and Communications will continue its consideration of the proposed Eircode postcode system when it meets with representatives from Nightline on 10th December.

Nightline describes itself as Ireland’s largest independent logistics company. Next year, a new postcode system for Ireland will be implemented, which has been described as a smart location code enabling every residential and business address to be located.

Chairman of the Committee John O’Mahony TD says: “A new smart postcode system for Ireland is expected to be launched early next year. With Ireland being one of the few developed countries without postcodes, there is a clear rationale for the introduction of a national postcode system.

ukoda

a65b2cd wrote: »

The Oireachtas debate continues with signs of a more positive attitude to the introduction of Eircodes:

The Oireachtas Joint Committee on Transport and Communications will continue its consideration of the proposed Eircode postcode system when it meets with representatives from Nightline on 10th December.

Nightline describes itself as Ireland’s largest independent logistics company. Next year, a new postcode system for Ireland will be implemented, which has been described as a smart location code enabling every residential and business address to be located.

Chairman of the Committee John O’Mahony TD says: “A new smart postcode system for Ireland is expected to be launched early next year. With Ireland being one of the few developed countries without postcodes, there is a clear rationale for the introduction of a national postcode system.

I really hope Nighline exposes the FTAI as wrong about eircode having no benefit to the industry. I hope they go in with something tangible

FTAI, in my opinion, have another agenda. Perhaps pressure from the mostly international companies they represent around making it easier for domestic competition to enter the market or whatever.

But clearly they either don't understand what eircode can do or they don't want to understand

yuloni

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ukoda

yuloni wrote: »

As discussed before... Loc8 or any other location code for that matter can be used quite well within a database for those who require address validation. A list of Loc8 codes matched to rows of addresses in a database could automatically include all the other codes that fall within a buildings polygon for an address and close to it, to avoid the chance of an "unofficial" code being returned by the end user. This would be very easily run automatically using OSI map data when building the database. eircode themselves are to include "alias codes" within their database and while I'm not to sure what exactly the application of these are to be, it's likely some attempt at trying error checking

It's wasteful repeating the argument that Loc8 can't work in a database as they can. More so, the majority of the Irish user base don't need address data, nor do they need address validation - they need to find a location. This doesn't require a database. The few who do actually require address validation, the onus is on them to ensure their databases aren't so rigid that they bork at a slightly varied code being given by the user


Otherwise, to state that eircode is suited for generating codes for points that aren't addresses is daft. Imagine the chaos this process will inevitably create. Someone wants a code for the field they're selling. They contact eircode only to find it's like trying to get a phone line back in the day. So their local politician has to get involved for his piece of the action. Months gone by, plenty of politics and a hefty administration fee later, eircode finally issue a code for the field (which has long since been sold). The new owner of the field is quite chuffed with his new code, not aware of the agro that was involved to get it. He sends the code to the guys coming to bale the field. These guys can't find it on their sat-nav as Garmin won't issue the new code until they release their next update in 3 months time.

Yeah, that sounds real ideal scenario alright

No don't be silly. No one should be generating codes for a field. But they might be assigned to something significant as decided by public demand or other process

I'm not proposing anyone be able to request an eircode for a lump of grass in a field. That is daft.....


EDIT: just to add, there are no "alias codes" in the database. There are "alias addresses" so that slight variations of the same address will still only be assigned one eircode thus making it unique and allowing you to still get the eircode from a look up even tho you may have an unofficial variation of the address

yuloni

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ukoda

yuloni wrote: »

Daft? In that case you may rule out jetties and piers, farmer's yards, building sites, park and ride, temporary parking, entrance points to events... you know, those locations that people need to find sometimes

You propose public demand... well that's certainly daft. Why would the public bother their arse trying to get a code assigned to a place they now likely already know. What benefit would a code eventually being assigned to said place offer to those members of the public who strived to get it! You propose instead we get to create new codes by "other process". Political process perhaps? Sounds like a real money maker in the works here... highest bidder wins type stuff

eircode is a letterbox code... no more

Who's to say eircode won't assign codes to those things in 'phase 2'. This is what I meant by other processes. Non political. Non money making. You're making wild claims there about a futuristic scenario that may or may not exist

yuloni

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ukoda

yuloni wrote: »

Oh I'm sure they'll assign a whole load of new codes in phase 2... but for what exactly? An Post letterboxes? County-Council man-holes?

By it's design, it will never be of use to the rest of us who need a code to find a place other than a letterbox.

Well you minority can struggle on and use loc8 if you so desire. The rest of the population will use eircode to get to places we actualy need to go like schools, hospitals, friends houses, hotels, offices, doctors, shops, restaurants etc etc

Hopefully loc8 will still be around for that once in a lifetime trip I need to take to a water tank in a field

a65b2cd

yuloni wrote: »

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Have you a reference for that - I hadn't heard that Garmin have agreed to install Eircodes.

yuloni

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ukoda

yuloni wrote: »

No, you're drifting from the point. Loc8 has an advantage that including all those places above, it can also be used to pin that water tank in the field

If you want to go to the hospital... an addressed building, you'll need to find the eircode online through their lookup tool unless perhaps someone from the hospital relays it onto you. If you were to find a Loc8 for the same hospital, you can again go online and drop a pin anywhere on the hospital and you'll get a Loc8... it won't have to go off an validate and check that this is the address you want to go to. Also, the relative standing at the door of A&E can generate a Loc8 on the fly and relay it onto you

Now, take Letterkenny hospital for example. To get to A&E, you take a different exit off the road to the main hospital. With eircode, you will be taken to the main hospital as this is where the location was registered against the address




It's was an example scenario. eircode are to release quarterly updates. Don't ask about Garmins release cycle as it stumps me if I'm honest

Well if I have to go online anyway to scour a map and drop a pin... Maybe I might just go to the hospitals website or golden pages or Google maps or eircodes website and get the Eircode

Or said relative can ask at reception....or they can look up golden pages cos you've to be online anyway to get a loc8.....right? Now you might argue that it's more accurate with loc8 as it points to the exact spot right? But I won't be able to park there and hey guess what, car parks are signposted at hospitals and so are the different departments and receptions

Loc8 sounds wonderful in theory but when you bring it down to practical day to day use its not so much use as you'd have us believe

ukoda

yuloni wrote: »

EDIT: Folks, pay attention to ukoda's tactics. When a valid argument for Loc8 vs eircode is raised, he regurgitates old and previously discussed information. When that fails, he labels users of Loc8 as a minority. And repeat

Every argument in this thread is old and had been rehashed time and time again. You do the exact same thing with your arguments. Why don't you stick to making valid points and stop trying to undermine my points by making accusations of tactics just because you don't like what I'm saying.

This kind of post is unnecessary

yuloni

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yuloni

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ukoda

"yuloni wrote: »

Loc8 is already in use in practical day to day situations. What part of this can you just not accept?

I fully accept loc8 is in use today. I have never questioned that. However I will question it's usage statistics as none are available and no one I know had heard of loc8. It's been 4 years since it launched and I do not see it in any sort of widespread use.

My point is that loc8 is not suitable as a national postcode

I know people from loc8 read this thread, any of you want to provide some stats on loc8 codes usage figures???