National Postcodes to be introduced

ukoda

yuloni wrote: »

Report the post if you're upset

Every time I come into this thread, it's only to see you dropping something like follows:

"Loc8 sounds wonderful in theory but when you bring it down to practical day to day use its not so much use as you'd have us believe"

These are invalid and unsubstantiated statements yet you continue to drop them in every now and then

I did report it.

And every time I say that statement above I provide a real example of where I can see it happening. What's your point?

yuloni

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ukoda

yuloni wrote: »

You're examples are bizarre and usually end on something like:

"you minority can struggle on and use loc8 if you so desire"


As I said above, Loc8 is already working in practical day to day scenarios. We all know this, most of us can accept it

Perhaps what we need is a new thread focusing solely on the short-comings of eircode. Here we would not mention superior solutions, instead we would raise a short-coming and you could tell us how that isn't a short-coming. What you think?

How about a thread about eircode (you know Ireland's national postcode) that isn't littered with talk about a code that isnt going to used as a national postcode.... Which is the title of this thread, correct?

Why don't you go off and start a thread on how great loc8 is and leave this thread to discuss what is actually going to be Ireland's national postcode

yuloni

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AlanS181824

Both of you please shush!

It's like listening to little children bicker.

Loc8 is great and I'm sure EirCodes will be great too!

yuloni

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ukoda

yuloni wrote: »

Loc8 used to post here a few years ago. You've asked for usage figures before. We are users and we could not provide these. Instead, we provided real and current examples of prominent authorities such as County Councils and Water Safety Ireland using Loc8. As per usual, you proceeded to ridicule each of these examples on some flawed criteria invented to suit the ridiculing

I'm just looking for some real figures on actual usage. And loc8 are still here btw, I know that for a fact. Maybe not actively posting I can't verify that. But they read this.

All I'd want is some actual figures instead of a vague "a county council use it" I'd prefer to know things like. For what, how often, in what scenarios, how many times was it used in each scenario. How many codes have been generated, what tangible gains were made from it Etc etc

ukoda

yuloni wrote: »

Sorry chief, but eircode is no more than a troubled concept being bandied by Crapita at present. If any code is not going to be the national postcode, by all accounts, it could just be eircode!

It's signed off as the national postcode due to be implemented next year. You may hope that that changes. But at the moment. It's ericode for Ireland

yuloni

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ukoda

yuloni wrote: »

Do you actually for a minute believe that likewise the eircode consortium would ever divulge such information. Not a chance

Signed off? Our politicians sign off to be in power for 5 years, but that doesn't always go to plan

The government own the postcode and its IP. Capita just operate it. I would absolutely believe usage stats will be available on eircode yes


And why wouldn't loc8 be singing from the roof tops about how much there code is used? Every other company does it "we now have 200,000 customers" "we signed up 50,000 new accounts last year" you see these figures from all companies. But not a whisper from loc8.

yuloni

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ukoda

yuloni wrote: »

Similar to how the Government are openly divulging with such excitement just how many people have signed up for water charges!

Yeah they are? They have actually published those figures repeatedly in the media. They even broke it down by month

Old article
http://www.thejournal.ie/how-many-people-have-registered-to-pay-water-charges-1809928-Dec2014/


There's even newer stats available now

yuloni

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yuloni

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clewbays

yuloni wrote: »

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Incorrect. A lot of effort and money is being used to populate the Public Sector databases with Eircodes. Using LOC8 would undo that work as the LOC8 code will change if the associated coordinates are incorrect or inappropriate. Revisions to the unique address identifier would be disastrous for database users hence the creation of Eircode which is independent of all other items of information except the postal town and that will not be subject to change. LOC8 is not unique for apartment buildings which is another drawback in using it as a unique identifier for addresses.

recedite

ukoda wrote: »

Yes they can, they are starting with addresses as that's the priority but they have stated there's plenty of capacity to assign codes to other structures or non structures. They said they will look at this once eircode is established for addresses

Oh really? I didn't hear that, have you got a link to it?
Eircode's "capacity" to generate random numbers is of course unlimited , even if they have to add extra digits for some "future" phase. This current phase of postcode delivery has only taken, what 10 years or so from inception, to be almost usable?
But the capacity of the delivery companies and also electronic devices such as sat-nav to cope with the current database is already being stretched, and is not unlimited.

a65b2cd

Report in the Irish Examiner on yesterday's Oireachtas session with Nightline is enlightening! Is it as simple as being down to the British freight delivery companies demanding a UK style postcode so that they don't have to modify their IT systems?

"John Touhy, CEO of the Nightline group, yesterday told the joint Oireachtas committee on transport and communications that the Eircode system would “revolutionise how we deal with customers in rural areas”. He said that the design of the postcode would allow easy implementation and negate the need to change any addresses or road names.

The committee previously received a submission from the Freight Transport Association of Ireland in which delivery companies Boc, DHL, FedEx, Palletxpress, and UPS all declared that they would not use the new code in its current guise.

However, Mr Tuohy said that while these companies were “shouting very loudly”, their views were in the minority, and that their concerns were down to their computer systems’ compatibility with the new code."

ukoda

a65b2cd wrote: »

Report in the Irish Examiner on yesterday's Oireachtas session with Nightline is enlightening! Is it as simple as being down to the British freight delivery companies demanding a UK style postcode so that they don't have to modify their IT systems

Ahh! I mentioned here before that I beleived FTAI had some other motive in their opposition to eircode, but I couldn't put my finger on it, now this makes sense

At least we have nightlife who are willing to tell it how it is and how eircode can work for the freight industry

Jack180570

ukoda wrote: »

Ahh! I mentioned here before that I beleived FTAI had some other motive in their opposition to eircode, but I couldn't put my finger on it, now this makes sense

At least we have nightlife who are willing to tell it how it is and how eircode can work for the freight industry

There are none so blind as those who will not see.... never a better example than your reply here.

The Freight Transport Association of Ireland which includes delivery companies such as Boc, DHL, FedEx, Palletxpress, and UPS all declared that they would not use the new code in its current guise because its rubbish, then one company, Nightline say its great, and you appear to reach the outlandishly foolish conclusion that they are right.... ?!?!!!

By my calculations that makes the score:
Eircode 1 - Loc8Code 5

recedite

a65b2cd wrote: »

The committee previously received a submission from the Freight Transport Association of Ireland in which delivery companies Boc, DHL, FedEx, Palletxpress, and UPS all declared that they would not use the new code in its current guise.

However, Mr Tuohy said that while these companies were “shouting very loudly”, their views were in the minority, and that their concerns were down to their computer systems’ compatibility with the new code."

So Nightline are a majority of one, and all the others are in the minority??
I'm open to correction on this, but haven't the international operators previously stated that the "incompatibility" issue is due to the large size of the eircode database, which might be OK for a company operating only in Ireland, but the international operators cannot afford to devote a large part of their systems over to what is just a minor region to them.
If that's the case I can see how Nightline would be happy, just as An Post were quite happy with no postcodes at all, because local knowledge gave them a competitive advantage over all private couriers.

ukoda

Jack180570 wrote: »

There are none so blind as those who will not see.... never a better example than your reply here.

The Freight Transport Association of Ireland which includes delivery companies such as Boc, DHL, FedEx, Palletxpress, and UPS all declared that they would not use the new code in its current guise because its rubbish, then one company, Nightline say its great, and you appear to reach the outlandishly foolish conclusion that they are right.... ?!?!!!

By my calculations that makes the score:
Eircode 1 - Loc8Code 5

Well they are agreeing with me...so of course im gonna think they are right....

People need to stop calling the database large btw. It's less than 2gb which includes all the countries full addresses which already have to be on the Freight companies systems, so we are talking a very small size. VERY small and even if it was 2gb, so what! I bought a USB drive on groupon recently for €10 and it was 60gb in size.

The database size is a non issue. Data storage is cheaper than ever and their physical size is also tiny.

Sur Google drive will give them 15gb for free with Google drive if there really that stuck. Thers some amount of mindless bull**** being spouting on here.

a65b2cd

recedite wrote: »

I'm open to correction on this, but haven't the international operators previously stated that the "incompatibility" issue is due to the large size of the eircode database

Here is what FTAI said:
The code as it is now structured does not recognise the concept of adjacency. In the back of the information pack we have put three local addresses: the Royal College of Surgeons next door, Leinster House, and Buswell's Hotel. Any of the other coding systems will logically place those in a sequence that a man in a hi-vis vest, a man in a van or a woman behind a computer screen allocating these to customers will understand.

So they want to deliver parcels to neighbouring properties!

Sam Russell

It is quite clear to me that Eircode is another eVoting in the making.

1. It is useless unless the user has access to a database.

2. The random nature of the code is senseless, we might as well use our PPS numbers.

3. The use of routing codes such as D01 and D04 is just too big an area to be of any use other than An Post.

4. It should be numeric to make the code easier to machine read.

The worst possible solution - just like the eVoting fiasco. And just like Irish Water. And just like Paypars. And just like ....... fill in your own ideas, there is no shortage of them.

ozmo

ukoda wrote: »

People need to stop calling the database large btw. It's less than 2gb which includes all the countries full addresses which already have to be on the Freight companies systems...

I can see why they are annoyed.
We could be talking of hundreds or thousands of handheld devices that would have be upgraded if it wont fit - plus this new batched quarterly updating of data to devices costs money and has to be scheduled.

Even if it does fit - again not an easy or cheap task scheduling and uploading a lot of (compressed even) data to that many handheld terminals on a constant basis (quarterly updates) - I know, I've had to write software to do it in the past.

my3cents

ozmo wrote: »

I can see why they are annoyed.
We could be talking of hundreds or thousands of handheld devices that would have be upgraded if it wont fit - plus this new batched quarterly updating of data to devices costs money and has to be scheduled.

Even if it does fit - again not an easy or cheap task scheduling and uploading a lot of (compressed even) data to that many handheld terminals on a constant basis (quarterly updates) - I know, I've had to write software to do it in the past.

I don't think any of the hand held terminals that the couriers use give them directions so why would adding a code to the address make any difference?

ukoda

ozmo wrote: »

I can see why they are annoyed.
We could be talking of hundreds or thousands of handheld devices that would have be upgraded if it wont fit - plus this new batched quarterly updating of data to devices costs money and has to be scheduled.

Even if it does fit - again not an easy or cheap task scheduling and uploading a lot of (compressed even) data to that many handheld terminals on a constant basis (quarterly updates) - I know, I've had to write software to do it in the past.

The units the drivers carry are all enabled with a data connection so I highly doubt they all have any address database on them as its not needed (they I don't give directions) it's just the central database that needs the code for routing and package sorting and if they have a system that can't cope with an extra 2gb of data then they are in serious trouble anyway and only a matter of time before an upgrade is needed and the updates of the database are only additional entries on the existing fields on the database so pushing the new data in is very easy and you are not talking about any sort of custom scripting every 3 months, it's just a raw data dump and upload which is a simple process and in fact can be automated very easily

Leonard Shelby

Jack180570 wrote: »

There are none so blind as those who will not see.... never a better example than your reply here.

The Freight Transport Association of Ireland which includes delivery companies such as Boc, DHL, FedEx, Palletxpress, and UPS all declared that they would not use the new code in its current guise because its rubbish, then one company, Nightline say its great, and you appear to reach the outlandishly foolish conclusion that they are right.... ?!?!!!

By my calculations that makes the score:
Eircode 1 - Loc8Code 5

No Jack. The guy from Nightline is an expert, and he clearly explained how Eircode can be used without any issues with its design as is, no need for change. He then explained that Fedex, UPS and others had legacy systems and a one size fits all IT approach and just didn't want to invest and would rather an inferior postcode design that was compatible. That isn't lining up a number on each side, that is a devastating critique of the FTAI no campaign. It simply isn't credible to continue to argue that Eircode is "useless" when a guy representing a company that delivers more than all the naysayers put together in Ireland clearly demonstrates that it perfectly suits their requirements. FTAI lobbying for an inferior postcode design to save some of their members IT expense isn't exactly leading a charge for the most modern design, now is it. I would expect more and more logistics companies to reach the same conclusion...

Leonard Shelby

ukoda wrote: »

Well they are agreeing with me...so of course im gonna think they are right....

People need to stop calling the database large btw. It's less than 2gb which includes all the countries full addresses which already have to be on the Freight companies systems, so we are talking a very small size. VERY small and even if it was 2gb, so what! I bought a USB drive on groupon recently for €10 and it was 60gb in size.

The database size is a non issue. Data storage is cheaper than ever and their physical size is also tiny.

Sur Google drive will give them 15gb for free with Google drive if there really that stuck. Thers some amount of mindless bull**** being spouting on here.

Hi Ukoda,
The 2Gb size currently being bandied around isn't accurate. That figure is the full database export as a series of flat text files, its in their Technical Guide. To estimate the size requirements you have to figure out what data a particular system will need to store.

For a mobile phone app to store ALL eircodes and their corresponding map coordinates, to be used say in an offline TomTom app will require 7 + 4 + 4 = 15Bytes multiplied by 2.2 million. This works out as 31.5Mb, yep your average mobile phone app has more data this. Updates would be a couple of mb quarterly if even that.

For a SatNav, they need the Eircodes, coordinates and and an address. Addresses are stored efficiently in SatNavs, they don't store Dublin 18 for every addresss it is in. Being conservative this might amount to a total file size of 150-250mb for your average SatNav.

Those misusing the 2Gb figure don't have a valid point about SatNav "memory limits" Mapping data is HUGE, address data is SMALL. Myth, busted. Eircodes will be on all SatNavs next year.

yuloni

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ukoda

yuloni wrote: »

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They are the largest independent courier in Ireland


It's just become glaringly obvious what the FTAI are up to and why they first started with "eircode is useless" and now (knowing what nightlife were going to say" they've subtly switched tact to "the problem is with the awarding of a contract"