National Postcodes to be introduced

stoneill

THE company that recommended the introduction of a postcode system has now been awarded the contract to oversee its establishment.

The Irish Independent has learned that PA Consulting has been awarded a €560,000 contract by the Department of Communications.

This is the same company which recently compiled a report for the department's minister, Eamon Ryan, and recommended the setting up of a national postcode system.

It advised that the new system would save public bodies -- including the emergency services -- upwards of €22m because it enables cross-departmental sharing of public data and information.

However, Mr Ryan admitted that "benefits of such a type of system cannot be accurately gauged in monetary terms".

Last night, the Labour Party accused Mr Ryan of pushing ahead with a system that was "out of date and cumbersome".

A total of 11 offers were received for the two-year consultancy contract -- but last night the department said the package received from PA Consulting "scored the highest of all applicants against selected criteria".

The new postal system will cost between €10m and €15m to implement, with PA Consulting -- a UK-based company -- advising a company on their work. This is in contrast to an earlier 'postcodes board' set up by former Communications Minister Noel Dempsey which predicted an overall introduction cost of €50m.

Debate

Amtmann

mackerski wrote: »

You'll see a dramatisation of this dilemma and others in my earlier post.

I saw that and liked it, but I'm wondering how they'll solve the issue.

mackerski

Furet wrote: »

I saw that and liked it, but I'm wondering how they'll solve the issue.

I don't think it really can be solved. Clearly they can resolve any duplicates simply by giving, say, ATH to Athlone and coming up with alternatives for Athenry etc. But overall the system will fail to deliver on its goal of making it easy to guess what area a postcode refers to. And relating the postcode to recognisable places makes it more likely that people will object to an obvious association with a placename they don't like - either because it's in the wrong language for them or maybe (Waterford?) on the wrong side of a county boundary.

Trick of the Tail

This really is a crock.

Anyone with half a brain knows that a system to aid the delivery of mail is completely unnecessary.

We have the chance to lead the way in this technology, in implementing a public system based on actual geographical co-ordinates, and these 'consultants' basically recommend copying a 35-year old UK system.

Spare me.

I heard it said once that what the Brits do well we ignore, what they do badly we copy.

So true.

It just goes to reaffirm the fact that we always do everything with a large dose of the half-arse factor.



A.

recedite

Hopefully Minister Ryan will get the boot early next year, along with the rest of the idiots in government before he spends too much money going down this blind alley.
It's ironic that they are borrowing the money abroad, and then spending it in the UK on consultants. A double whammy for the beleaguered Irish economy.

Empire o de Sun

La di da

Doblin 4 :cool:

Solair

I don't get this though. The Dublin (or Cork) numbers could stay around. There's no need to include them in the post codes, nor is there any reason to remove them from addresses.

RDS,
Merrion Road,
Dublin 4
NN5-86-LB7

etc etc

who_am_I?

Solair wrote: »

I don't get this though. The Dublin (or Cork) numbers could stay around. There's no need to include them in the post codes, nor is there any reason to remove them from addresses.

RDS,
Merrion Road,
Dublin 4
NN5-86-LB7

etc etc

That is a fantastic and simple solution. (someone tell Eamon Ryan) we can have a worthwhile system and retain D4

who_am_I?

who_am_I? wrote: »

That is a fantastic and simple solution. (someone tell Eamon Ryan) we can have a worthwhile system and retain D4

+1

Over time the superfluous information (D4) will eventually be dropped by all except snobs.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

+1

Over time the superfluous information (D4) will eventually be dropped by all except snobs.

+1 as well - and those snobs will be the mates of people in London who tried to get an 071 phone number (and not an 081) when London numbers had to change from the simple 01 - and that's a few years ago!

garydubh

Solair wrote: »

RDS,
Merrion Road,
Dublin 4
NN5-86-LB7

etc etc

Hint: download and install Micr8 (Free)
Once installed view NN5-86-LB7 or any Loc8 Code on the web (or in Office Docs) - highlight and right click - select the "Loc8" option from the drop down and the Loc8 Code will be displayed on a map

LeinsterDub

Is there any reason Loc8 codes can't be used ? Why are we paying to reinvent the wheel?

recedite

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Why are we paying to reinvent the wheel?

No, we are paying to reinvent the.... eh whats the name of that stretcher thing the Indians used to drag behind a horse before they had the wheel?

ILA

So what does this mean for the average household user of the postal service?

garydubh

ILA wrote: »

So what does this mean for the average household user of the postal service?

If we never had a postcode it would make no diffrence to An Post or to any people receivin mail from them. Its the Couriers and the logistsics sector that this effects - including tourists!

But no need to spend:

1. 0.5million on PA consultants - for the 3rd time (Total over €1.2m already)
2. €50million on implementing a system which would be of no use to Couriers, furniture deliveries, Sky installers, tourists

Loc8 is already implemented as a smarter form of postcode that serves both sides of the island and could be used as a National postcode if the Government wants to save itself money and get a system that has a lot more than they origiannly planned at a small fraction of the cost!

ILA

garydubh wrote: »

If we never had a postcode it would make no diffrence to An Post or to any people receivin mail from them. Its the Couriers and the logistsics sector that this effects - including tourists!

But no need to spend:

1. 0.5million on PA consultants - for the 3rd time (Total over €1.2m already)
2. €50million on implementing a system which would be of no use to Couriers, furniture deliveries, Sky installers, tourists

Loc8 is already implemented as a smarter form of postcode that serves both sides of the island and could be used as a National postcode if the Government wants to save itself money and get a system that has a lot more than they origiannly planned at a small fraction of the cost!

Well the only problem I've had with the post is when receiving items via courier as I live in a rural area but I can't see how a UK-like system would narrow it down for couriers as they'd still have to pick the house out of several on the road.

Loc8 certainly sounds like a pretty good solution. Otherwise I guess it's going have to give couriers the GPS co-ords.

I suspect that we will end up with both systems, a "post code" for an post to deliver letters and loc8 for everything else.

After all a post code system is for the postal service to streamline their deliveries, it's only chance that others have also used the system. For example in the UK, post codes were useful in "grading" areas for car & house insurance etc

Postcode lottery is common there, as in you could get a better health service just by being on one side of a street - the other side having a different postcode puts it into another health district.

SPDUB

garydubh wrote: »

If we never had a postcode it would make no diffrence to An Post or to any people receivin mail from them. !

Actually it would .

People just love to make up their versions of street names and have the most weird spellings ,move themselves to a "nicer" districts number in Dublin ,rename industrial estates and buildings ,have multiple names for business etc

For the most part such post gets through at the moment but not without a delay .

NFD100

Is this buried now? It has been very badly handled from the beginning.

who_am_I?

I emailed Eamonn Ryan and it is not Buried.
His Reply Below

Dear Mr nnnnnnn



I refer to your email of nn October 2010 regarding the implementation of a national postcode system.

The postcode model recommended by the National Postcodes Project Board and approved by the Government is an alpha-numeric post code model which is also capable of being refined into a location based code.

I expect a national postcode system for Ireland as described above to be developed by the end of 2011.


Yours sincerely


Eamon Ryan T.D.
Minister for Communications, Energy & Natural Resources

:rolleyes:

NFD100

who_am_I? wrote: »

I emailed Eamonn Ryan and it is not Buried.
His Reply Below



:rolleyes:

Alpha -numeric. Oh dear..........................

Should just get the Royal Mail to do it and then the Irish language bodies will take to the courts and win. More money down the drain...........

who_am_I?

it is the "Capable of being refined into a location based system" that I worry about.
I interpret it as:
Lets spend millions now developing a **** system that still requires local knowledge to find a house, then we can spend millions later cludging the codes into an unintuitive location based system.

recedite

A Flintstones car "is capable of being refined into" a proper car with the subsequent addition of an engine. Roll on the Flintstones Postcode.

Trick of the Tail

Which of GoCode or Loc8 is the more widely used by delivery companies now?

A.

Del2005

FIVE years after it was first discussed, a third attempt is to be made to introduce post codes in Ireland.

The Department of Communications has already employed a firm of consultants -- for the third time -- and is expected to put out a tender for "expressions of interest" in formulating a system of post codes in the coming weeks. Sources in the department also believe that An Post is now in favour of the plan. The Department of Communications has also confirmed that the latest tender will specify a "post code and location code" system.

Originally, the Data Protection Commissioners had expressed disquiet about 'unique identification' post codes, but these concerns have now been addressed.

Gary Delaney, CEO of Loc8 Code, an award-winning location-system company based in Crosshaven, Co Cork, has pioneered the use of a system of "unique" codes in Ireland.

"At the moment, there is a big demand from the commercial market -- our system can send people to a precise location, even if it's a wind turbine half way up a mountain. There are huge savings to be made on fuel and time by commercial organisations."

Using "unique" post-codes would be a huge improvement on the area-based system that operates in Britain, he says and his firm is advocating the introduction of the most technologically advanced system.

The Cork-based company, which operates with Garmin Europe, has already generated 49,800 codes of its own. Its CEO, a former naval officer, says their system is a "smarter form" of post codes and its system will also help the emergency services, getting them to exact locations "more rapidly".

Link

Maybe AnPost will release their system now they are on board:eek:. Hopefully we get something useful not the system which Eamon Ryan said.

SPDUB

Sources in the department also believe that An Post is now in favour of the plan

Not particularly from what I've heard .

Maybe An Post will release their system now they are on board:eek:.

I believe they've always been willing to release it but it costs money to maintain

Hopefully we get something useful not the system which Eamon Ryan said.

Remember first and foremost it has to be useful for delivery companies ,individuals would come second .

charlemont

Been Ireland, it be a disaster of a system, the only people who will benefit, will be those who receive contracts to create the codes..

Jehuty42

I find this very frustrating, addressing should be simple- you take the GPS coordinates of the building, convert into a string of characters(for example, this is Leinster House: o}pdIfbde@ (you can decode it here, enter that string as "Encoded Polyline" and enter 'B' as the level(it's just the zoom level and is specific to that Google Maps implementation)), and bam, that's your address, you can add the addressee's name or "Apt 1" or whatever as well to clarify. Simple. There are better ways of converting coordinates to strings that are more human-readable, but the principle is the same.

Cool Mo D

Jehuty42 wrote: »

I find this very frustrating, addressing should be simple- you take the GPS coordinates of the building, convert into a string of characters(for example, this is Leinster House: o}pdIfbde@ (you can decode it here, enter that string as "Encoded Polyline" and enter 'B' as the level(it's just the zoom level and is specific to that Google Maps implementation)), and bam, that's your address, you can add the addressee's name or "Apt 1" or whatever as well to clarify. Simple. There are better ways of converting coordinates to strings that are more human-readable, but the principle is the same.

Locations by themselves aren't good enough for postcodes.

Postcodes should take into account geographical features - for example houses on opposite sides of a river should not be in the same postcode if there is not a convenient bridge. All the houses that share a postcode should be easily accessible to each other, otherwise they are not actually that useful for organising deliveries.

For example, a house here: http://maps.google.com/maps?q=55.172496,-7.738066&num=1&t=h&sll=53.34156,-6.257347&sspn=0.013325,0.032015&ie=UTF8&ll=55.172545,-7.737808&spn=0.027548,0.056906&z=14 is very close to a house here: http://maps.google.com/maps?q=55.183621,-7.733431&num=1&t=h&sll=55.172545,-7.737808&sspn=0.027548,0.056906&ie=UTF8&ll=55.186317,-7.725534&spn=0.027539,0.056906&z=14 but a proper postcode system should have them separate.

Jayuu

Jehuty42 wrote: »

I find this very frustrating, addressing should be simple- you take the GPS coordinates of the building, convert into a string of characters(for example, this is Leinster House: o}pdIfbde@ (you can decode it here, enter that string as "Encoded Polyline" and enter 'B' as the level(it's just the zoom level and is specific to that Google Maps implementation)), and bam, that's your address, you can add the addressee's name or "Apt 1" or whatever as well to clarify. Simple. There are better ways of converting coordinates to strings that are more human-readable, but the principle is the same.

And for the millions of us who don't have GPS, are we just supposed to somehow magically find out that our postcode is something like 3fT^7gRd0-#)? I can see all my friends remembering that when they want to send me a letter!

Whatever its disadvantages are, a postcode similar to that in the UK will be a lot easier for people to remember. If we're supposed to be encouraging people to use postcode we have to remember that they must be recognisable and easy to remember.