National Postcodes to be introduced

ukoda

Sam Russell wrote: »

It is great to know that the secretive roll-out of Eircode will require rushed emergency legislation that is still secret in order to allow it, just weeks ahead of the proposed roll out of Eircode.

Another Irish Water!

What's the rushed legislation? No one has confirmed that anything is required or not required yet, so you know nothing of any changes to be made

And no one can secretly change legislation in this country

Sam Russell

ukoda wrote: »

What's the rushed legislation? No one has confirmed that anything is required or not required yet, so you know nothing of any changes to be made

And no one can secretly change legislation in this country

Alex White said legislation is required, that means he knows it is required.

Legislation has not been published or announced in any form. That makes it secret.

If the legislation is required for the launch of Eircode in 'Spring, 2015' that makes it rushed - if it has not been announced yet at the end of January. [Remember, in Ireland, we learn at school that Spring starts on the 1st February].

Legislation can be rushed through the Dail in a day, that makes it law before anyone knows about it - that makes it secret.

The last time this was done was for Irish Water, and look where that got us.

ukoda

Sam Russell wrote: »

Alex White said legislation is required, that means he knows it is required.

Legislation has not been published or announced in any form. That makes it secret.

If the legislation is required for the launch of Eircode in 'Spring, 2015' that makes it rushed - if it has not been announced yet at the end of January. [Remember, in Ireland, we learn at school that Spring starts on the 1st February].

Legislation can be rushed through the Dail in a day, that makes it law before anyone knows about it - that makes it secret.

The last time this was done was for Irish Water, and look where that got us.

Did he not say a bill will be put forward over the next few weeks, that won't be private and we will know about it, he also said spring is not now the go live, May / June is, which is 6 months notice

Sam Russell

ukoda wrote: »

Did he not say a bill will be put forward over the next few weeks, that won't be private and we will know about it, he also said spring is not now the go live, May / June is, which is 6 months notice

May is month 5 and June is month 6, and a few weeks from now brings us to mid Feb, so I make that more like 3 months notice.

We might know about it then, but that is very little time for any public discussion, or it will cause a delay to the launch. Of course, the Government could guillotine the bill like they did with Irish Water.

murpho999

Sam Russell wrote: »

It is great to know that the secretive roll-out of Eircode will require rushed emergency legislation that is still secret in order to allow it, just weeks ahead of the proposed roll out of Eircode.

Another Irish Water!

Seriously give over with this rubbish.

There will be no secret legislation.

This thread is incredible. A simple postcode has internet hacks up in arms trying to convince us that there is a privacy issue.

I don't get it. Someone has your postcode (most likely because you gave it) and they then have your address. What is the issue with it and how is it any different to someone obtaining your address now?

I just cannot see how having a postcode that indicates exactly where you live is a privacy issue. No more so that having your house number on your door is. It's just a tool to assist deliveries and navigation.

Why people are trying to make something more of it is beyond me.

ukoda

murpho999 wrote: »

Seriously give over with this rubbish.

There will be no secret legislation.

This thread is incredible. A simple postcode has internet hacks up in arms trying to convince us that there is a privacy issue.

I don't get it. Someone has your postcode (most likely because you gave it) and they then have your address. What is the issue with it and how is it any different to someone obtaining your address now?

I just cannot see how having a postcode that indicates exactly where you live is a privacy issue. No more so that having your house number on your door is. It's just a tool to assist deliveries and navigation.

Why people are trying to make something more of it is beyond me.

Exactly, my address is 100% unique and anyone can find out what it is, if you standing on my street and pull out Google maps it will have my address on it, it's not private, and the "issue" of linking things in a database or any other sort of "hacking" concerns are total red herrings from people who don't understand what they are talking about

Carawaystick

ukoda wrote: »

Did he not say a bill will be put forward over the next few weeks, that won't be private and we will know about it, he also said spring is not now the go live, May / June is, which is 6 months notice

As of 22Jan2015
this http://www.eircode.ie/residential/overview
says

eircode wrote:

You will be sent a letter in Spring 2015 informing you of your Eircode and how to use it

so, either he's a clueless politician, he's a lying politician (I didn't see his lips move personally), or eircode.ie are lying.

Carawaystick

Carawaystick wrote: »

As of 22Jan2015
this http://www.eircode.ie/residential/overview
says

so, either he's a clueless politician, he's a lying politician (I didn't see his lips move personally), or eircode.ie are lying.

Perhaps someone should contact them to find out whether the information on that website is up to date.

ukoda

Carawaystick wrote: »

As of 22Jan2015
this http://www.eircode.ie/residential/overview
says

so, either he's a clueless politician, he's a lying politician (I didn't see his lips move personally), or eircode.ie are lying.

I know that's what the website says and that's the original go live date, I'm saying Alex White said May / June in his interview, which means it's probably delayed until then, it wouldn't be the first time a website didn't have the most up to date info.

irishgeo

All the privacy concerns and complaints about the eircide from people who wanted to use Loc8 which is basically the the same thing.

People moaning about the date being pushed back. Would be the same people moaning if it launched in spring 2015 and they had problems. Maybe they have had problems and are ironing them out before launch.

plodder

irishgeo wrote: »

All the privacy concerns and complaints about the eircide from people who wanted to use Loc8 which is basically the the same thing.

True. The privacy concern would be the same with loc8 or any geo-code. But, that doesn't mean the concern should be ignored.

Carawaystick

ukoda wrote: »

I know that's what the website says and that's the original go live date, I'm saying Alex White said May / June in his interview, which means it's probably delayed until then, it wouldn't be the first time a website didn't have the most up to date info.

The whole eircode craic is to have an accurate online way of checking addresses.
If they can't even have an accurate online start date, well it seems like a pretty poor start.

murpho999

Carawaystick wrote: »

The whole eircode craic is to have an accurate online way of checking addresses.
If they can't even have an accurate online start date, well it seems like a pretty poor start.

Updating a page on a website is completely different to maintaining an a database.

ukoda

Carawaystick wrote: »

The whole eircode craic is to have an accurate online way of checking addresses.
If they can't even have an accurate online start date, well it seems like a pretty poor start.

Why don't you let it launch and get off the ground before you slam it for operational things.

You're implying their database checking tool will be poor because someone hasn't update a plain text field on the website yet. (They probably look at it as low priority, which isn't right, but doesn't indicate incompetence either, just a prioritisation of tasks)

Fair enough if you want to slam things they have done. But it's a bit of a stretch to start assuming things won't work well in their website database just yet.

ukoda

On the whole privacy thing....

I noticed loc8code must be using a database? On their website I can type in my address and it gives me my unique loc8code so there's a database behind this storing the address?

So we already have a privately owned database that has assigned a unique identifier to every and any property in Ireland, and its stored and searchable online, I can reverse look up an address from a loc8code

Why aren't people screaming "privacy issues" about this? It's even more of a risk surely as its a private company??

Have I missed something here

irishgeo

ukoda wrote: »

On the whole privacy thing....

I noticed loc8code must be using a database? On their website I can type in my address and it gives me my unique loc8code so there's a database behind this storing the address?

So we already have a privately owned database that has assigned a unique identifier to every and any property in Ireland, and its stored and searchable online, I can reverse look up an address from a loc8code

Why aren't people screaming "privacy issues" about this? It's even more of a risk surely as its a private company??

Have I missed something here

Google has a pretty extensive knowledge on everything people do and people don't upset about but because its the government its a different matter

ardmacha

irishgeo wrote: »

Google has a pretty extensive knowledge on everything people do and people don't upset about but because its the government its a different matter

Yes, a private company is no problem but a government operating at our behest is!!

irishgeo

ardmacha wrote: »

Yes, a private company is no problem but a government operating at our behest is!!

Why?

ardmacha

irishgeo wrote: »

Why?

Why did I post a sarcastic remark or why do people think this way?

my3cents

ardmacha wrote: »

Why did I post a sarcastic remark or why do people think this way?

But you didn't smiley code your post so how were we to know what to file it under

plodder

irishgeo wrote: »

Google has a pretty extensive knowledge on everything people do and people don't upset about but because its the government its a different matter

google don't know who you are or where you live, and in any case, the issue (such as it is) is not that the government knows your Eircode, it's all the other private companies you interact with, and what they do with your Eircode when you give it to them.

ukoda

plodder wrote: »

google don't know who you are or where you live, and in any case, the issue (such as it is) is not that the government knows your Eircode, it's all the other private companies you interact with, and what they do with your Eircode when you give it to them.

Google know who you are if you tell them. Same as any company, they store what data you give them and use it for the purpose you've agreed to let them use it for. How is adding an eircode to the end of the customers address suddenly a privacy issue

irishgeo

plodder wrote: »

google don't know who you are or where you live, and in any case, the issue (such as it is) is not that the government knows your Eircode, it's all the other private companies you interact with, and what they do with your Eircode when you give it to them.

I beg to differ. Google knows where i work and live because i have an android phone

This link gives you everything google knows about you.

https://www.google.com/dashboard/

plodder

ukoda wrote: »

Google know who you are if you tell them. Same as any company, they store what data you give them and use it for the purpose you've agreed to let them use it for. How is adding an eircode to the end of the customers address suddenly a privacy issue

None of google's web services require you to provide your address (or even ask for it) afaik. whereas pretty much all online retailers expect you to provide a postcode, for obvious reasons.

How is that a privacy issue? As explained before, it's potentially a privacy issue if the retailer thinks postcodes are anonymous and can provide/sell them to whoever it likes. They are much more convenient to deal with than addresses, so will be a useful way of tracking what people are purchasing online for example.

I've never said that's a reason not to use Eircodes. It's just something to keep an eye on. They could be a bit like web cookies in that what they were intended for, and what they ended up being used for were quite different things. So, it is good to be cautious imo.

ukoda

plodder wrote: »

None of google's web services require you to provide your address (or even ask for it) afaik. whereas pretty much all online retailers expect you to provide a postcode, for obvious reasons.

How is that a privacy issue? As explained before, it's potentially a privacy issue if the retailer thinks postcodes are anonymous and can provide/sell them to whoever it likes. They are much more convenient to deal with than addresses, so will be a useful way of tracking what people are purchasing online for example.

I've never said that's a reason not to use Eircodes. It's just something to keep an eye on. They could be a bit like web cookies in that what they were intended for, and what they ended up being used for were quite different things. So, it is good to be cautious imo.

You've missed the part about consent, they can't use or sell my address NOW without my consent, eircode will be part of my address, they can't use it or sell it without consent

plodder

ukoda wrote: »

You've missed the part about consent, they can't use or sell my address NOW without my consent, eircode will be part of my address, they can't use it or sell it without consent

Ok, I'm talking about foreign based websites that don't know Eircodes are personal information and therefore needing your consent. If you think about it, the same platforms tend to get used for e-commerce everywhere. Often you'll see websites of Irish companies ask you for a postcode, even though we don't have one up to now. This suggests to me, that many websites aren't going to be programmed specifically for Irish data protection requirements for postcodes.

Again, I'll say it's not necessarily a deal-breaker, but something we should be cautious about.

ukoda

plodder wrote: »

Ok, I'm talking about foreign based websites that don't know Eircodes are personal information and therefore needing your consent. If you think about it, the same platforms tend to get used for e-commerce everywhere. Often you'll see websites of Irish companies ask you for a postcode, even though we don't have one up to now. This suggests to me, that many websites aren't going to be programmed specifically for Irish data protection requirements for postcodes.

Again, I'll say it's not necessarily a deal-breaker, but something we should be cautious about.

But again, if you give this company your address with or without an eircode at the end of it....it's the same thing? What's the extra risk from eircode? This foreign company won't have a clue about ericode and won't do any more than they would have before eircode... I'm still not seeing anywhere eircode adds a risk to privacy


The reason you get asked for a postcode on Irish websites is usually because they have bought "out of the box" software that by default had the postcode field as it's sold internationally, it doesn't mean the company asking for your info is foreign tho

Sam Russell

I think we should ask Snowden about privacy.

plodder

ukoda wrote: »

But again, if you give this company your address with or without an eircode at the end of it....it's the same thing? What's the extra risk from eircode? This foreign company won't have a clue about ericode and won't do any more than they would have before eircode... I'm still not seeing anywhere eircode adds a risk to privacy

They won't have a clue about Eircodes, but they will know that postcodes generally refer to groups of addresses, so they are anonymous and they might apply the same reasoning to Irish postcodes, and they expect them to be anonymous too. But, they aren't.

my3cents

plodder wrote: »

They won't have a clue about Eircodes, but they will know that postcodes generally refer to groups of addresses, so they are anonymous and they might apply the same reasoning to Irish postcodes, and they expect them to be anonymous too. But, they aren't.

In the UK any company that has your surname and postcode is 99.9% guaranteed to also have your address. You get this time and time again if you make a phone order with a company, they ask you your name and then your postcode then read the rest of your address from the database and ask you to confirm it.