National Postcodes to be introduced

Leonard Shelby

my3cents wrote: »

Heaven forbid send it out with a map printed on it or some form of geo corordinates and give the postman a sat nav, second thoughts don't bother with the sat nav as I'm pretty sure the mobile device/phone they all carry has it built in anyway.

So routine is simple. Postman has letter, postman goes to door to deliver, postman scans letter, the device then checks the location is correct gives the go ahead to deliver the letter, registers the letter as delivered and of course the postman delivers the letter.

Sounds a lot of work but my postman delivering to an area with a lot of non unique addresses has a run of less than 500 address so if he did 50 a day the job would be done in fortnight.

They'll do it all in one day, ordered by postmans walk with a map to make sure they do it right.

Leonard Shelby

Leonard Shelby wrote: »

They'll do it all in one day, ordered by postmans walk with a map to make sure they do it right.

Our local postie, used to have problems with one family that had spread into five houses all near each other and all sons so had the same family name.

As the children grew and started to receive mail, he had no idea which family to post it to, so he always started at the grandfathers house, until he got used to which child lived at which house.

He won't have that problem in the future, now we've got postcodes.

ukoda

Sam Russell wrote: »

Ok, they send out 1.5 million letters of new postcodes, one addressed to John Murphy, Murphystown, Backwood, Co Killcommon. How does the John Murphy that gets one of the letters know it is actually his and not one of the other 19 neighbours with the same name and non-unique address if there are twenty John Murphys in the townland?

Maybe he gets all twenty of the postcode letters addressed to John Murphy in that townland. Even if he gets only one, who knows it is the right one for him?

Now there is a thought.

We don't know how they will do it, but the eircode is assigned to the geo directory which has the coordinates of each address, so you'd have to assume they will either use some sort of sequencing on the delivery routes to know that on route A the first house is code ABC123 and the next house is code ABD124 etc. or they will use some sort of geo positioning tech to verify the code is for the right location in the geo directory

It doesn't matter who lives there then because it's not John Murphys code, it's the location / buildings code.

my3cents

ukoda wrote: »

We don't know how they will do it, but the eircode is assigned to the geo directory which has the coordinates of each address, so you'd have to assume they will either use some sort of sequencing on the delivery routes to know that on route A the first house is code ABC123 and the next house is code ABD124 etc. or they will use some sort of geo positioning tech to verify the code is for the right location in the geo directory

It doesn't matter who lives there then because it's not John Murphys code, it's the location / buildings code.

Good point and technically An Post only deliver to the address not the name on the address, however they still currently deliver to non unique addresses by know who lives where. So an Eircoded address will need to be delivered by address (and geo location) not name.

plodder

Even if there are errors, a website with a zoomable map, could allow people to locate their own property and postcode. It's not rocket science.

Alan_P

Sam Russell wrote: »

Ok, they send out 1.5 million letters of new postcodes, one addressed to John Murphy, Murphystown, Backwood, Co Killcommon. How does the John Murphy that gets one of the letters know it is actually his and not one of the other 19 neighbours with the same name and non-unique address if there are twenty John Murphys in the townland?

Because the first thing he does when he gets it is look it up on the website. Which I imagine the vast majority of people will do anyway.

Sam Russell

You are all very confident that these post codes will be delivered correctly the first time, and every other time - with no evidence that anyone involved has even a tiny bit of a plan as to how to confirm that these items are actually delivered to the proper address.

I go back to my point oh so many posts ago - we need unique addresses as well as post codes. If everyone was required to put a little plaque on their door with their post code on it - well that might do, but unique addresses are still needed.

larchill

Alan_P wrote: »

Because the first thing he does when he gets it is look it up on the website. Which I imagine the vast majority of people will do anyway.

What if he's an 'oul codger with no internet access!

SpaceTime

Sam Russell wrote: »

You are all very confident that these post codes will be delivered correctly the first time, and every other time - with no evidence that anyone involved has even a tiny bit of a plan as to how to confirm that these items are actually delivered to the proper address.

I go back to my point oh so many posts ago - we need unique addresses as well as post codes. If everyone was required to put a little plaque on their door with their post code on it - well that might do, but unique addresses are still needed.

Actually, no it'd still be fairly useless as you'd have plaques on gates with random numbers on them!

Main Street:
X1Y 2A2B
X1Y Q1X3
X1Y Q9X3
X1Z 1AB9 (arbitrary cross of code border)

and so on.

durtybit

How many squillions is this going to cost us?

SpaceTime

durtybit wrote: »

How many squillions is this going to cost us?

Several and then we'll probably have to scrap it and redesign it.

It's starting to sound more like the National Children's Hospital to me!

Sam Russell

SpaceTime wrote: »

Several and then we'll probably have to scrap it and redesign it.

It's starting to sound more like the National Children's Hospital to me!

More like eVoting or Irish Water.

antoinolachtnai

Leonard Shelby wrote: »

They'll do it all in one day, ordered by postmans walk with a map to make sure they do it right.

Mail sortation doesn't work that way. What you are describing is a big, expensive and risky kludge. I would be very surprised if the vendors would support it. If they did, they would charge a lot.

I think you are applying a preconceived idea from an urban context onto how rural delivery works. It doesn't (and can't) work that way.

yuloni

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my3cents

yuloni wrote: »

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I'm just saying the postman carries the necessary computer hardware everyday depending on the delivery type he can even use it to phone and check that you are in.

How they actually do it is another matter.

yuloni

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my3cents

yuloni wrote: »

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Every Amazon delivery I get the postman scans to indicate to Amazon that its been delivered. Its a cheaper option for Amazon than a full signed for service. An Post is a business and will do whatever will make them money within the limits of what the postmans union will allow.

I expect a string of deliveries this week from Amazon via An Post so if I see the postman I'll try and find out what information goes back to Amazon when he scans the package.

yuloni

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Sam Russell

my3cents wrote: »

Every Amazon delivery I get the postman scans to indicate to Amazon that its been delivered.

I ordered an item from Amazon on 19 Novenber and was due to be delivered by An Post. It never showed on its tracking system and got returned to sender. I ordered it again, and guess what, the same again - item never showed and was returned to sender. Ordered again, but this time it was sent by a different courier - 'by the fastest courier they had' according to Amazon and this time it arrived on Jan 21st- but took 12 days to arrive.

I do not think a post code was the problem, but it indicates how problematic our couriers are (inc An Post). I have no idea where the item shipped from (I think Belgium) but it came via UK. The first two never left Belgium.

I cannot see the delivery of the notifications of post codes will go well.

Will they have to go to tender to make sure the lowest price courier gets the job?

ukoda

Lads it's not rocket science. For urban they can mail them out like any other mail

For rural non unique scenario:

Mr postman goes the same route everyday in the same order everyday. On the day they want to deliver eircodes:

Hey mr postman, today you must go to every single house on your route in the order of the route regardless of weather or not you have a letter for them and you must deliver this stack of leaflets with eircodes in the order we have stacked them for you.

The crew in eircode need to do a bit of logistics to get the stacks right for each route but An Posts part is pretty easy.

Will they get them all correct? No way, could anyone get them all correct first go? No.

yuloni

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It appears to me that some people here really can't see the wood for the trees, the local postman will know the names and addresses of almost all the locals on his route.

The postcodes will make little difference to him, except where Paddy sr lives next door to Paddy jr the postcode will take that last bit of guesswork out of the equation, once he has memorised the postcodes to house of course.

When issuing the codes they may need to add some additional information to ensure that Paddy sr and jr don't accidentally swap codes.

ukoda

yuloni wrote: »

So you're saying the householder's name won't be on the leaflets?

I've never once got someone else's mail or parcels and vice versa. Have you? Why should misplaced leaflets be acceptable when rolling out eircodes... one of the very things that eircode is meant to solve apparently

I can't see how it could be, An Post don't have a database of their customers names, where will they get it from? Interview every postman?

And yes I've gotten someone else's mail a few times, it happens all the time across the country. Misplaced letters happen in every country. What kind of utopian bubble are you living in where mail never gets lost.

tvc15

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It appears to me that some people here really can't see the wood for the trees, the local postman will know the names and addresses of almost all the locals on his route.

The postcodes will make little difference to him, except where Paddy sr lives next door to Paddy jr the postcode will take that last bit of guesswork out of the equation, once he has memorised the postcodes to house of course.

When issuing the codes they may need to add some additional information to ensure that Paddy sr and jr don't accidentally swap codes.

There is a lot of work getting the letter to the correct postman first, people assume its just the postman who has to look at the letter!

The argument that postmen know everyones name is fine, they probably do but does Eircode have a list of every single householders name in a database? How would they get the name on the mail?

L1011

ukoda wrote: »

I can't see how it could be, An Post don't have a database of their customers names, where will they get it from? Interview every postman?

They sort-of do; its how they manage to figure out when there's a new "the occupant" to bombard with TV Licence letters, for instance.

Sam Russell

I can see the post code getting the letters to the correct sorting office, and even getting the letter to the correct postman's walk, and even in the 'correct' order but after that - well?

In urban areas, there is no problem because we have clear, unambiguous, unique addresses. But in rural areas, there is no physical manifestation of the address, or road, or anything to indicate where anything is at a detail level.

antoinolachtnai

A postman in a rural area doesn't necessarily follow a fixed route. The route he takes will depend on what mail he has and what kind of mail it is, as well as all sorts of incidental local issues. You can't rely on a highly rigid route or procedure being followed in every corner of the country.

Someone asked about mail going to the wrong address. In bouts now and again I receive the wrong mail in Dublin 2 with a wrong address. Over 1 percent of correctly addressed mail is misdirected. This is just the nature of the service.

SPDUB

Sam Russell wrote: »

I can see the post code getting the letters to the correct sorting office, and even getting the letter to the correct postman's walk, and even in the 'correct' order but after that - well?

They give the postman a copy of the geodirectory maps with the eircode added in to them saying each code has to be delivered to the building indicated on the map .

There would be some issues with buildings that the postman doesn't have access to and don't have a postbox but they couls be dealt with

antoinolachtnai

They might be able to do that, but it is going to cost 5 euros or more per delivery. You can't expect to get that degree of attention to detail for 60 cents an envelope.

That makes the whole project pretty expensive. Getting postmen to do surveying work is a pretty awkward way to go about it. You would be better off resurveying the whole thing. You could do this for far less than what An Post are going to get paid for this escapade (about 20 million, 10 million for Geodirectory and another 10 million for deliveries).

Only delivery points are in Geodirectory, so only delivery points are getting an eircode. If the postman can't access it, I wouldn't think it's really a delivery point.

BarryM

It seems to me that many posters on here are assuming people will use the (seven digit ?) code. Even if they do how many will make errors, if they write it as opposed to having headed paper?? Thinking about it who uses headed paper any more?? Finger problems are probably biggest cause of errors online. Even the "signature" option which might provide some accuracy is not used by many email users.

Other thing, we've all been pissed off by sites that insist on a post code, I use - and it usually does. However, IF you use your Eircode on a (say) UK site, will it work??