National Postcodes to be introduced

ukoda

ukoda wrote: »

Well you can't design, implement and maintain a postcode for free, I think it's better to retail it out to commercial orgs, who in turn get a return on their investment, rather than it being paid solely with tax payer money.

You'll be wanting to commercialise the issuing of PPS Numbers next.

dashcamdanny

2 small questions. Will Garmin satnavs get the post code system.? And will an old Garmin satnav be capable of an update to use such codes?

dr.fuzzenstein

murpho999 wrote: »

So you're complaining about post codes exposing people who are living illegally. Seriously.

Anyhow, the postcode is not associated with a name and also if someone wants to find a property without a postcode it will be done.

The complaint is bogus.

Read it again, but turn the meaning round 180 degrees.

ukoda

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You'll be wanting to commercialise the issuing of PPS Numbers next.

That's not the same thing. It's more comparable to tolling roads. It's a piece of Infastruture.

Should we not toll any roads?
Should our trains all be free?
No need to pay for tickets lads, we'll fund it from taxes.

PPS is a government tool, it's not something that can help a business streamline its processes and reduce thier costs.

plodder

It's surely unprecedented for a state to contract out the design of basic elements of infrastructure like a postcode. For instance, the decision to use the random structure has major impacts on usability by the public, and while there are arguments for and against it, it's amazing that there was no public consultation on this aspect, or even political involvement. The problem is that left to their own devices, government departments, semi-states and their contractors will always look for the easiest (for them) solution, and it's not hard to see why - apart from the financial benefit to the contractor, that it's much easier for them to avoid problems with perceived post-code snobbery. I say perceived as well because it could have been designed to minimise that effect. Eircode is a quick and dirty solution. It will work ok for the purpose that most people care about, which is navigation to individual properties (assuming that the satnav vendors adopt it) but we could have done so much better.

GJG

Sam Russell wrote: »

I agree with this approach, and if it is so cost effective, why charge for the use of Eircode?

By the way, this would apply to any post code system that applied unique code to individual addresses, even a system without random codes and ones that were hierarchical.

Another problem that will be eliminated is the use of non-unique addresses for company names. I had a person call to my door (in a non-unique address area) looking for Anyoldname Ltd, Roundthecorner, Ballyhere, Co Slogone to serve legal papers. It could have been anywhere among 30 houses, and the address could have been fake. No clue as to who owned the company or who was due the pleasure of having bulky reading matter. That will be another benefit.

It won't cost anything for companies or agencies to collect their customers' Eircode as they go along and enter it in a database. Equally when they want to make the odd delivery or visit, they can get the location on their satnav or Google Maps at no marginal cost.

If a company is deploying an integrated system where they can look up addresses and locations on an industrial scale, then they are obviously gaining a benefit from Eircode that goes far beyond what the average punter is gaining from the system, so it seems fair that the cost of that falls to them, not to the taxpayer.

Eircode, like any company, will of course be motivated to set the charge at a level that those companies find is value for money, or else they won't get any sales

dashcamdanny wrote: »

2 small questions. Will Garmin satnavs get the post code system.? And will an old Garmin satnav be capable of an update to use such codes?

My Garmin, about four years old, is eligible for updates, which come online a couple of times a year. I have noticed that new motorway junctions appear after each update, and it incorporates postcodes in all other countries, even tiny markets like Luxembourg.

It would seem strange to me if they didn't include Ireland like every other country, but obviously if you don't get updated it won't appear on your satnav.

Some of the more hysterical posters here seem to be implying that there is a plan to charge end-users such as you having to pay separately to have it on your satnav. There is nothing to suggest that is the case.

SpaceTime

I was surprised that TomTom didn't have any data available for Iceland ! Ended up using Google maps on a local SIM card - they'd fairly generous prepaid data and decent coverage on Simmin anyway.

Just proves though that they don't bother with every market but, Ireland's a LOT bigger population and sees way more visitors too.

ukoda

SpaceTime wrote: »

I was surprised that TomTom didn't have any data available for Iceland ! Ended up using Google maps on a local SIM card - they'd fairly generous prepaid data and decent coverage on Simmin anyway.

Just proves though that they don't bother with every market but, Ireland's a LOT bigger population and sees way more visitors too.

It's probably a separate purchase, Garmin don't have anything for the Canaries on the standard "Europe" sat nav either, and that I would imagine is in huge demand.

By the way, when I asked eircode via email, I was told they were "already working with navigation companies"
My money is on google maps being first to market with eircodes for navigation.

Carawaystick

ukoda wrote: »

Garmin don't have anything for the Canaries on the standard "Europe" sat nav either,

Probably because the Canaries are in Africa...

ukoda

Carawaystick wrote: »

Probably because the Canaries are in Africa...

They are Spanish islands. Part of Spain. Part of the EU.

Carawaystick

Mayotte is a french island, part of France, part of the EU too. But as it's in Africa too, I doubt its on a map of Europe.
Its main airport has a postcode of 97615, which is the exact same postcode as any where else in the commune of Pamandzi, to wander ever so slightly towards the topic

SpaceTime

ukoda wrote: »

It's probably a separate purchase, Garmin don't have anything for the Canaries on the standard "Europe" sat nav either, and that I would imagine is in huge demand.

By the way, when I asked eircode via email, I was told they were "already working with navigation companies"
My money is on google maps being first to market with eircodes for navigation.

Nope! I checked they just don't or didn't cover Iceland at all. Even emailed them! Anyway slightly off topic but it does show that SatNav companies can ignore small markets. Iceland is very small though 323,000 people (more people live in County Cork (200000 more!) they get about 1.2 million visitors a year though.

ukoda

Carawaystick wrote: »

Mayotte is a french island, part of France, part of the EU too. But as it's in Africa too, I doubt its on a map of Europe.
Its main airport has a postcode of 97615, which is the exact same postcode as any where else in the commune of Pamandzi, to wander ever so slightly towards the topic

I think you are confusing "in Africa" with "near Africa"

The canary islands are NEAR Africa, as are a lot of countries. But they are not IN Africa.

Take a moment to educate yourself:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canary_Islands

Carawaystick

Is Ireland in Europe?

SpaceTime

Carawaystick wrote: »

Is Ireland in Europe?

Last time I checked it is! Did someone really really annoy Merkel in the last few hours or something ?!

Alun

ukoda wrote: »

It's probably a separate purchase, Garmin don't have anything for the Canaries on the standard "Europe" sat nav either, and that I would imagine is in huge demand.

Yes, they do ...

https://buy.garmin.com/en-IE/GB/maps/on-the-road-maps/city-navigator-nt/city-navigator-europe-nt/prod6299.html

ukoda

Carawaystick wrote: »

Is Ireland in Europe?

Yes it is. What's your point?

ukoda

Alun wrote: »

Yes, they do ...

https://buy.garmin.com/en-IE/GB/maps/on-the-road-maps/city-navigator-nt/city-navigator-europe-nt/prod6299.html

Not on my sat nav. I must just have an older one that hasn't been updated. Glad it's on it now

dr.fuzzenstein

Carawaystick wrote: »

Is Ireland in Europe?

One could also argue that we are in the Atlantic.

SpaceTime

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

One could also argue that we are in the Atlantic.

Well, one could but ...

Speaking of European stuff, I constantly find Benelux and German companies seem to think that a standard system exists.

Street, Number
postcode (numeric only) is a good idea on web forms. I've had terrible difficulty entering UK and Irish addresses.

Even French addresses were problematic as I couldn't include "bis" and believe it or not La Poste gets confused if the house number comes after the street!

Apt 3
12bis rue Irlande
NANTES 221000

The Germans manages to write

Irlande rue apt 3, 12bis

Result : la Poste sent it to 3 rue ....

Bis just means continuation / extension.

You get "left" and "right" written in Spanish on addresses too where a building has two blocks.

Same nonsense with American sites that think all phone numbers are written as (XXX) YXX-XXXX I don't know why people can't leave these things as open text strings!

I've no doubt eircode will cause plenty of form issues and UK sites trying to look it up as a British code and rejecting it.

dr.fuzzenstein

I don't foresee any form issues worse than the usual "00000" I enter on sites that INSIST on postcodes and will not let you leave the field blank.

spacetweek

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

I don't foresee any form issues worse than the usual "00000" I enter on sites that INSIST on postcodes and will not let you leave the field blank.

I've been writing '90210' all this time whenever that happened.

dashcamdanny

Carawaystick wrote: »

Is Ireland in Europe?

Yes.

Ireland is also part of the British Isles.

.*runs for cover

SpaceTime

I just put in the phone area code and a couple of extra 00s.

Sam Russell

ukoda wrote: »

They are Spanish islands. Part of Spain. Part of the EU.

They are part of Spain but not in the EU. They use the Euro.

murpho999

ukoda wrote: »

I think you are confusing "in Africa" with "near Africa"

The canary islands are NEAR Africa, as are a lot of countries. But they are not IN Africa.

Take a moment to educate yourself:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canary_Islands

They are closer to Africa than Europe.

They are geographically part of Africa but politically part of Europe.

By the way Wikipedia is a totally unreliable form of education as anyone can edit it

a65b2cd

Sam Russell wrote: »

They are part of Spain but not in the EU.

Revenue website
"Although Gibraltar, the Canary Islands and the Channel Islands are part of the EU, they are subject to special provisions and therefore the duty free allowances for outside the EU apply."

ukoda

Sam Russell wrote: »

They are part of Spain but not in the EU. They use the Euro.

Incorrect. They are part of Spain and as such part of the EU

"The Canaries constitute one of Spain's 17 autonomous communities and are among the outermost regions of the European Union proper"

That's a quote from wiki but feel free to google it for more sources. Saying they are part of Spain but not part of the EU is like saying Valencia (one of the other autonomous communities of Spain) is part of Spain but not the EU.

Sam Russell

a65b2cd wrote: »

Revenue website
"Although Gibraltar, the Canary Islands and the Channel Islands are part of the EU, they are subject to special provisions and therefore the duty free allowances for outside the EU apply."

Did not know that. Assumed they were not in EU because of the duty free.

France has DOMs which are part of the EU but not in Europe at all.

ukoda

murpho999 wrote: »

They are closer to Africa than Europe.

They are geographically part of Africa but politically part of Europe.

By the way Wikipedia is a totally unreliable form of education as anyone can edit it

See my last post. I know what wiki is. But like I said. Google it for multiple other sources.

They are part of the EU. end of story.....could we get back to postcodes now.


It really goes to show that people will argue anything on a forum assuming they are right and stating things as facts, when really they don't have a clue.