National Postcodes to be introduced

murpho999

ukoda wrote: »

See my last post. I know what wiki is. But like I said. Google it for multiple other sources.

They are part of the EU. end of story.....could we get back to postcodes now.


It really goes to show that people will argue anything on a forum assuming they are right and stating things as facts, when really they don't have a clue.

You are the one arguing.

Anyhow the EU is a political institution not geographic and the canaries are geographically located in Africa but politically part of Spain and the EU that is beyond dispute.

I will stop now as we're going off topic as you say.

ukoda

murpho999 wrote: »

You are the one arguing.

Anyhow the EU is a political institution not geographic and the canaries are geographically located in Africa but politically part of Spain and the EU that is beyond dispute.

I will stop now as we're going off topic as you say.

My "arguing"comment wasn't meant for you, it was meant for the other posters claiming it wasn't part of the EU.


anyway...the Canaries are actually on Garmins Europe maps now, so happy days.

it will be interesting to see who is first to market with a navigation device/service that uses eircode.

SpaceTime

a65b2cd wrote: »

Revenue website
"Although Gibraltar, the Canary Islands and the Channel Islands are part of the EU, they are subject to special provisions and therefore the duty free allowances for outside the EU apply."

Revenue is wrong on this.
The Channel Islands are not part of the EU, they're also not part of the UK but it is responsible for their external relations.
They have an agreement with the EU which allows them access to the single market but that's as far as it goes.

http://www.channelislands.eu/eu-and-the-channel-islands/

http://www.gov.je/Government/JerseyWorld/InternationalAffairs/Pages/RelationshipEUandUK.aspx

It's a very one way relationship that basically gives them EU access without any of the burdens of membership. Not very fair and you can be damn sure they won't permit you to live there due to "local housing requirements" unless you're suitably wealthy.

ukoda

SpaceTime wrote: »

Revenue is wrong on this.
The Channel Islands are not part of the EU, they're also not part of the UK but it is responsible for their external relations.
They have an agreement with the EU which allows them access to the single market but that's as far as it goes.

http://www.channelislands.eu/eu-and-the-channel-islands/

http://www.gov.je/Government/JerseyWorld/InternationalAffairs/Pages/RelationshipEUandUK.aspx

It's a very one way relationship that basically gives them EU access without any of the burdens of membership. Not very fair and you can be damn sure they won't permit you to live there due to "local housing requirements" unless you're suitably wealthy.

I find it assuming how their website is a .eu one and the website is labeled "channel island...Brussels office" aha

Anyway this is all very interesting but wildly off topic....

SpaceTime

ukoda wrote: »

I find it assuming how their website is a .eu one and the website is labeled "channel island...Brussels office" aha

Anyway this is all very interesting but wildly off topic....

When are these eircodes rolling out?
Thought it was originally supposed to be last month?!

ukoda

SpaceTime wrote: »

When are these eircodes rolling out?
Thought it was originally supposed to be last month?!

It was, but "summer 2015" is now what's on the Eircode site. I think in an interview they said May

a65b2cd

SpaceTime wrote: »

Revenue is wrong on this.
The Channel Islands are not part of the EU

This EU website says that they are part of the EU political entity:
http://europa.eu/about-eu/countries/member-countries/spain/index_en.htm

ukoda

a65b2cd wrote: »

This EU website says that they are part of the EU political entity:
http://europa.eu/about-eu/countries/member-countries/spain/index_en.htm

CHANNEL Islands. He's talking about the CHANNEL Islands. We've all agreed the CANARY Islands are part of the EU.

ukoda

ukoda wrote: »

It was, but "summer 2015" is now what's on the Eircode site. I think in an interview they said "Maybe sometime in the indeterminate future"

fyp
Sad to say it may not be a joke.

ukoda

[Deleted User] wrote: »

fyp
Sad to say it may not be a joke.

What actually makes you think it won't launch?

Like, the product is built, An Post say they will be ready in May with all their systems, the pricing is published, the draft DP stuff is approved, the budget / money for a launch is there....

What is going to stop it? And I'm genuinely asking the question, what are the barriers people think could stop the launch?

seamus

Funny we were discussing this at home last night, the only thing I can see scuppering a May launch is the fact that the general public is not aware of it. Nobody I know is aware of this.
And there are a lot of people in Dublin going to be very upset about losing their postcode, we'll see people writing "Dublin 6W" and "Dublin 4" as their address before their eircode for years to come.

I live right on the border between D24 and D16 which means there's a good chance we'll all share the same routing code. There'll be a lot of upset people about it.

Someone in the Dail will get angry calls from their Donnybrook constituents and will try to call a halt to the whole thing.

dr.fuzzenstein

ukoda wrote: »

What actually makes you think it won't launch?

Like, the product is built, An Post say they will be ready in May with all their systems, the pricing is published, the draft DP stuff is approved, the budget / money for a launch is there....

What is going to stop it? And I'm genuinely asking the question, what are the barriers people think could stop the launch?

The same as always when anything state or semi-state is involved. Incompetence, indifference, lack of cooperation between different state bodies, lack of political will, lack of money, i.e. project being deliberately starved of funds to come in within budget or some state department not releasing the funds, or if funds are available and released just sitting there due to the aforementioned reasons.
We all have seen how fast the state can move and lash legislation and initiatives through when they smell money, but they don't care a rat's arse for such nebulous things such as "increased productivity, better efficiency, streamlining and simplifying", because their first question is "Will this immediately net us at least 500 million? No? Why bother then?"
I don't care what anyone says, but living here for 20 years has proven this to me again and again. Other countries will say "This will cost money but we have to do this and it will benefit us in the long run", in Ireland we say "this will cost money, so we won't bother our hole".

ukoda

seamus wrote: »

Funny we were discussing this at home last night, the only thing I can see scuppering a May launch is the fact that the general public is not aware of it. Nobody I know is aware of this.
And there are a lot of people in Dublin going to be very upset about losing their postcode, we'll see people writing "Dublin 6W" and "Dublin 4" as their address before their eircode for years to come.

I live right on the border between D24 and D16 which means there's a good chance we'll all share the same routing code. There'll be a lot of upset people about it.

Someone in the Dail will get angry calls from their Donnybrook constituents and will try to call a halt to the whole thing.

They are supposed to write Dublin 4 etc on their address before eircode. It's in addition to their existing address (including Dublin area codes) nothing else is changing.

If you are a Dublin 4 resident your address will be

Donnybrook
Dublin 4
AD2 4F7J


People don't know much about it because it hasn't launched, my question is what could stop the launch.

EDIT: it's actually:

Donnybrook
D04 4F7J

With D04 representing Dublin 4

oscarBravo

seamus wrote: »

I live right on the border between D24 and D16 which means there's a good chance we'll all share the same routing code. There'll be a lot of upset people about it.

D24 people will have a D24 routing code; D16 people will have a D16 routing code. Nothing for anyone to get upset about. In fact, there's exactly one exception to the letter-digit-digit format of the routing code just for D6W.

As an aside: take this as an insight into why the blithe "tell more than half the people in the country that their address will be changing completely" approach espoused by some in this thread is utterly unrealistic.

plodder

ukoda wrote: »

They are supposed to write Dublin 4 etc on their address before eircode. It's in addition to their existing address (including Dublin area codes) nothing else is changing.

If you are a Dublin 4 resident your address will be

Donnybrook
Dublin 4
AD2 4F7J


People don't know much about it because it hasn't launched, my question is what could stop the launch.

Dublin 4 postcodes will be like

D04 4F7J

unless I've missed something that changed recently. And the existing Dublin postal areas won't be changing precisely because people are used to them.

Where have you heard that the "product is ready"? That suggests to me that all the codes and routing keys are already allocated. Is that what you meant?

For what it's worth, I think the design is about 60% OK. What I would have changed (or would still change) is to make the next two characters after the routing key refer to a small area. That code could be allocated randomly to minimise snobbery issues, and then the final two characters could be allocated randomly within the small area.

dr.fuzzenstein

ukoda wrote: »

People don't know much about it because it hasn't launched, my question is what could stop the launch.

I was being serious:

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

The same as always when anything state or semi-state is involved. Incompetence, indifference, lack of cooperation between different state bodies, lack of political will, lack of money, i.e. project being deliberately starved of funds to come in within budget or some state department not releasing the funds, or if funds are available and released just sitting there due to the aforementioned reasons.

At this stage there would be little resistance to national post codes other than the loony and tin foil hat brigade and possibly the anti water meter crowd as well, they're getting desperate for anything to cling onto.
It's only official stupidity and laziness that can delay or scupper the project.

ukoda

plodder wrote: »

Dublin 4 postcodes will be like

D04 4F7J

unless I've missed something that changed recently. And the existing Dublin postal areas won't be changing precisely because people are used to them.

Where have you heard that the "product is ready"? That suggests to me that all the codes and routing keys are already allocated. Is that what you meant?

For what it's worth, I think the design is about 60% OK. What I would have changed (or would still change) is to make the next two characters after the routing key refer to a small area. That code could be allocated randomly to minimise snobbery issues, and then the final two characters could be allocated randomly within the small area.

Sorry yes you're correct. My mistake

ukoda

plodder wrote: »

For what it's worth, I think the design is about 60% OK. What I would have changed (or would still change) is to make the next two characters after the routing key refer to a small area. That code could be allocated randomly to minimise snobbery issues, and then the final two characters could be allocated randomly within the small area.

theres a huge amount of info in the datbase, this is what you can query:

ORGANISATION

SUB_ADDRESS_POINT

ADDRESS_POINT

BUILDING

BUILDING_GROUP

THOROUGHFARE

LOCALITY

POST_TOWN

COUNTY

POSTAL_ADDRESS
ALIAS_TYPE

ORGANISATION_ALIAS

SUB_ADDRESS_POINT_ALIAS

ADDRESS_POINT_ALIAS

BUILDING_ALIAS

BUILDING_GROUP_ALIAS

THOROUGHFARE_ALIAS

LOCALITY_ALIAS

POST_TOWN_ALIAS

COUNTY_ALIAS

ADDRESS_TYPE

DESCRIPTOR

GEOGRAPHIC

QUALIFIER

IRISH_VERFICATION

ROUTING_KEY

GEODIRECTORY_LOOKUP

SPATIAL_INFO

BUILDING_INFO

ORGANISATION_INFO

ADMINISTRATIVE_INFO


THOROUGHFARE is usally a street/road/avenue etc. so there is a way to break down the postcode in the database, its not public i grant you, but that goes back to the "ghetto" argument

SpaceTime

They'd really want to have a firm date by now. This is starting to look bad.

dr.fuzzenstein

SpaceTime wrote: »

They'd really want to have a firm date by now. This is starting to look bad.

Remember the introduction of the LEAP card? This sort of muppetry is just the normal carry-on. Nothing confined to post codes only, this how everything is set up in this country.
If the task was to organise some kind of festive get together involving alcoholic drinks in a premises concerned with the production of same, it would never go ahead due to licensing and planning laws.

Carawaystick

ukoda wrote: »

Yes it is. What's your point?

If Ireland is in Europe, then by the same logic, the Canaries and Mayotte are in Africa.

They're all islands off the mainland continent.

ukoda

Carawaystick wrote: »

If Ireland is in Europe, then by the same logic, the Canaries and Mayotte are in Africa.

They're all islands off the mainland continent.

Alaska is closer to Russia than the United States.... Is Alaska in Russia? Maybe it's in Canada?

We've been over this, it's part of the European Union and is included in Garmins Europe maps. As it rightly should be.

SpaceTime

Australia is in the Eurovision

dr.fuzzenstein

SpaceTime wrote: »

Australia is in the Eurovision

In future we'll have galactic post codes.

larchill

oscarBravo wrote: »

D24 people will have a D24 routing code; D16 people will have a D16 routing code. Nothing for anyone to get upset about. In fact, there's exactly one exception to the letter-digit-digit format of the routing code just for D6W.

As an aside: take this as an insight into why the blithe "tell more than half the people in the country that their address will be changing completely" approach espoused by some in this thread is utterly unrealistic.

Wonder what the Routing Codes for the rest of the country will be like. D is Dublin - will it be regionalised or what? A North West, B, the West, etc.

ukoda

larchill wrote: »

Wonder what the Routing Codes for the rest of the country will be like. D is Dublin - will it be regionalised or what? A North West, B, the West, etc.

I think they said randomn outside of the Dublin ones, to keep the Irish language people happy.

dr.fuzzenstein

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

In future we'll have galactic post codes.

Maybe we could base it on SNMP OID MIBs which means that the "postcode" would look something like this!

.1.4.2.6.7.45.34.7.8.1.8.5.0 P Smith

Carawaystick

What's the query for latitude/longitude in the eircode file? Is it GEOGRAPHIC or
GEODIRECTORY_LOOKUP ?
What's the positional resolution?
I know of 2 rural semi-d cottages with the doors beside each other, so if the doors are 3' and a jack wall of 1', the letterboxes are 4' apart

How will those addresses get their eircodes delivered correctly? if the eircode delivery person stands slouching to their favoured side, the separation will be lower, and the likelihood of error greater.

When is the geodirectory going to be updated with the latest postal addresses before the eircodes are sent out?

ukoda

ukoda wrote: »

What actually makes you think it won't launch?

Like, the product is built, An Post say they will be ready in May with all their systems, the pricing is published, the draft DP stuff is approved, the budget / money for a launch is there....

What is going to stop it? And I'm genuinely asking the question, what are the barriers people think could stop the launch?

There seem to be enough "legal" issues that could potentially delay it, but having said that It would probably go ahead, I just wouldn't bet the house on it.

Carawaystick

There's a lack of transparency to the whole thing, it was meant to launch before the end of this month, not its delayed. But we have no idea if the highly capitalised tender winner will be penalised for the delay, or if the original end of April date was optomistic, or anything really.

I guess we know Denis O'Brien isnt involved, as it would never happen then....