National Postcodes to be introduced

MBSnr

yuloni wrote: »

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None

ukoda

yuloni wrote: »

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They designed eircode around our national address database, which was 100% the right way to do it.

What you suggest is they take a set of Geo codes convert them using an alogrithm into another type of code, then patch some of those codes on to our national address database (which already has the geo's, so now they are there twice) , but leave others floating around that point to nothing. It's so ridiculous.
What eircode have done is, create a code based on postal towns, attach it to our address database which also has geo codes. Simple and effective.

SpaceTime

Looks like we're just going to have both systems side-by-side.

Eircode for postal addresses and Loc8 for ad hoc locations.

ukoda

SpaceTime wrote: »

Looks like we're just going to have both systems side-by-side.

Eircode for postal addresses and Loc8 for ad hoc locations.

Loc8 is niche. The general public don't know anything about it. It's been around for years and I've never heard anyone mention it in my personal life or any of the professional companies I deal with in business and as a consumer.

It'll die off eventually I'd say, they don't market it, so unless they change their approach it's s gonner

JohnC.

I signed up to Loc8 after reading on here that couriers use it. So my address when buying stuff online includes the code and has for some time. But I still get phone calls from all the companies delivering to me looking for directions, which would seem to indicate they don't actually use it after all. I'd be pretty confident about them actually using Eircode though.

oscarBravo

I've used a Loc8 code exactly once. After the third phone call by a delivery driver from Northern Ireland who had no idea of my local area - so my usual landmarks weren't helping in my oh-so-well-rehearsed directions speech - he asked me despairingly "you wouldn't have a Loc8 code, would you?"

I thought I had, but couldn't find it, so I went to the website and came up with a new one, which I texted to him.

By contrast, I'll be very surprised if, in a year's time, I get any calls for directions at all.

oscarBravo

oscarBravo wrote: »

I've used a Loc8 code exactly once. After the third phone call by a delivery driver from Northern Ireland who had no idea of my local area - so my usual landmarks weren't helping in my oh-so-well-rehearsed directions speech - he asked me despairingly "you wouldn't have a Loc8 code, would you?"

I thought I had, but couldn't find it, so I went to the website and came up with a new one, which I texted to him.

By contrast, I'll be very surprised if, in a year's time, I get any calls for directions at all.

This assumes that the delivery driver has access to the maps with the postcode locations on it, or a device that can download it.

ukoda

[Deleted User] wrote: »

This assumes that the delivery driver has access to the maps with the postcode locations on it, or a device that can download it.

Well that's the future isn't it. If they don't have it now they are already lagging behind, not just other delivery companies, but other people. Seeing as over 86%* of the population has smartphone now and it's growing rapidly year on year.

If they are serious about being in the delivery business then they are not going to ignore how easy their life would be if they took full advantage of eircode. Of course the FTAI would have us believe their crowd won't use it. But that's not likely to hold true. When the likes of UPS et al start seeing these codes on the parcels that arrive into them. They won't be long about adopting them.

*86% of adults in Ireland have access to an internet device that can be used ‘on the go’.
Source:

http://www.targetmcconnells.ie/portfolio/insights/irish-digital-media-statistics/

oscarBravo

Deleted User wrote: »

This assumes that the delivery driver has access to the maps with the postcode locations on it, or a device that can download it.

Yes. I think that's a safe assumption.

TheBustedFlush

The FTAI is of the view that location codes would be a better solution for their members and gave public examples of 3-4 different codes - Loc8, Go Code, Openpostcode included.

One of the biggest logistics/delivery firms in the country thinks that these would be a worse solution than Eircode because of their random design and no link to geography on the ground, crossing roads/fields, houses in the same area. They will be using eircode.

Another delivery firm thinks that eircode is perfectly suited to logistics delivery and are planning to integrate it into their systems.

Another smaller business that delivers goods to people's homes in rural areas on a daily basis throughout the country thinks that eircode is a brilliant solution to their current problems in dealing with unnumbered houses - they plan to use it.

Other interesting observations and opinions:
the location code designs

have not been tried and tested in daily use by emergency services - fire, ambulance or gardai.

have not been tested in daily use by An Post mail sorting systems.

have not been tested and daily used by Government Departments and state agencies

have not not been tested in daily use by any large-scale logistics company.

have not been tried and tested by banks, insurance companies, credit bureaux, retailers, etailers, courier companies on any kind of a wide scale use that would merit being called a worthwhile pilot or test scenario that could be assessed independently.

not all of them have an existing database of addresses and associated codes, and some of them argue that a database isn't necessary in their view.

their take-up and use has not been calculated or assessed by any credible independent expert authority as a postcode.

they cannot be assigned to individual postal addresses - a requirement of the state buyer whose responsibility includes the national post system.

don't have wide scale take up by organisations and members of the public despite some of them being in business for ten years.

are not used or adopted on a number of satnav systems and devices, but instead appear to be on one or the other leading to confusion.

they're not used on Google Maps or the other well-known mapping systems.

they are not "free", and offering to provide something supposedly for free that represents less than 2-3% of the overall stated cost is not a major selling point and potentially misleading anyway.

some of the codes apparently chose not to tender for the development and roll-out of the national postcode system even though there were obviously ways of doing so by partnering with other larger companies - other competing code companies and other Irish small businesses apparently did do this and were successful.

they have no post-town component - a key part of the postcode design required by the state buyer - whether the location code companies wish to accept that requirement or not.

Two of them are 8-10 characters long and are, arguably, because of their seemingly random use of characters less memorable than the state's offering. Some also contain potentially rude words or offensive text speak which would cause problems for those who had them.

yuloni

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ukoda

yuloni wrote: »

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I understood it perfectly, when you've no counter argument other than to make a comment like this about me.

ukoda

yuloni wrote: »

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I've no distain for them whatsoever, I've said on here numerous times that they are all well and good but they are not suitable as a national postcode.

to make my point again. A national postcode should be attached to our national address database. This national address database already has the geo codes of every address, we don't need a postcode that's basically taken the geo coordinates and rewrote them another way. the absolute key thing here is that our postcode is linked to addresses.

Trying to take a location code that rewrites geo's and put it into our national address database would be a stupid over complicated messy confusing and unsustainable solution.

These location code companies have had years and years to make an impact and take off in Ireland. Yet every single one of them has failed to make any sort of impact across the nation as a postcode. Why? Because they don't make good postcodes.

Panrich

Totally new to this. Where can I see my new postcode?

ukoda

Panrich wrote: »

Totally new to this. Where can I see my new postcode?

You'll get a letter advising you of your code in a few weeks time

They haven't officially launched so we don't know any of the codes yet.

dr.fuzzenstein

yuloni wrote: »

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Typing in places like Caher and Inch and invariably ending up at the wrong one?

oscarBravo

yuloni wrote: »

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Precisely for the reason that it won't get an eircode, but it would have its own Loc8 code, and if I wanted for nefarious reasons to be two different people with two different addresses, I could use the two Loc8 codes; an option I don't have with eircodes.

As for it not having a GeoDirectory entry: isn't the requirement for a database one of the criticisms of eircode in the first place?

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Loc8 codes have been around for years. How many people do you think will even know what I'm talking about when I ask them if they have one?

And if I were to suggest that they go get one, we already have people sending us "dropped pins" on Google Maps to identify their location. You would be astonished how many people get their own location wrong when looking on a digital map.

As I've said before: eircodes aren't perfect for every conceivable application, and there is a strong case to be made for a geocoding solution, but to continue to rant about eircodes long after they're a fait accompli... just seems faintly pathetic.

dr.fuzzenstein

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Typing in places like Caher and Inch and invariably ending up at the wrong one?

People are going to have to turn off predictive text and relearn how to spell!

yuloni

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a65b2cd

Has a definitive date been set yet for the beginning of the distribution of Eircodes? I heard that the distribution of Eircodes for public sector bodies databases has begun so presumably the individual address notifications will follow quite quickly. An Post will need to set a date for when they can be used on mail - July 1st?

ukoda

a65b2cd wrote: »

Has a definitive date been set yet for the beginning of the distribution of Eircodes? I heard that the distribution of Eircodes for public sector bodies databases has begun so presumably the individual address notifications will follow quite quickly. An Post will need to set a date for when they can be used on mail - July 1st?

They start in June and will be finished by the end of June I'm pretty sure that's what they said anyway

Yeah the public bodies all have access now, I know for the big ones and some Semi States, eircode are actually sending people in to them to help encode their databases too

ukoda

ukoda wrote: »

They start in June and will be finished by the end of June I'm pretty sure that's what they said anyway

Yeah the public bodies all have access now, I know for the big ones and some Semi States, eircode are actually sending people in to them to help encode their databases too

Sounds like a nice little earner,
logs on as admin,
enables the postcode/zip column in the table.
ticks box to make postcode/zip visible.
collects at least one days pay for what could take about five minutes excluding the arriving/leaving etc
leaves
:cool:

Arbiter of Good Taste

MBSnr wrote: »

Fair enough, but you got them. Oppose away all you like. Just don't let me catch you sneakily entering one into your Sat Nav.......

All I want to know is whether I will be able to use my Garmin as handily as in the UK and no longer will have to guess the nearest street???

ukoda

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Sounds like a nice little earner,
logs on as admin,
enables the postcode/zip column in the table.
ticks box to make postcode/zip visible.
collects at least one days pay for what could take about five minutes excluding the arriving/leaving etc
leaves
:cool:

It's not that simple, far from it when you think about a company like ESB? Do you think it's 5 mins work to get that entire organisation fully ready for postcodes? And btw eircode aren't charging for this, it's part of the rollout plan to have government bodies and some semi States ready.

a65b2cd

Deleted User wrote: »

Sounds like a nice little earner,
logs on as admin,
enables the postcode/zip column in the table.
ticks box to make postcode/zip visible.
collects at least one days pay for what could take about five minutes excluding the arriving/leaving etc
leaves
:cool:

It was database matching so that the files would contain Eircodes from the start, that's how they have been able to send those organisations the Eircodes of their matched customers in advance of the launch.

a65b2cd

a65b2cd wrote: »

It was database matching so that the files would contain Eircodes from the start, that's how they have been able to send those organisations the Eircodes of their matched customers in advance of the launch.

That's a whole new ball game, I would imagine that many companies would just ask customers to update their own addresses online.

ukoda

[Deleted User] wrote: »

That's a whole new ball game, I would imagine that many companies would just ask customers to update their own addresses online.

If a business are going to take a postcode from a customer, it would be kind of pointless to do it without getting your system hooked up to eircode so your business could leverage things like address validation and auto populating addresses. If you just put a postcode field somewhere in your database and do nothing else, then you've only really helped An Post deliver any mail / packages you send that customer, which in itself isn't a bad thing at all, but you may as well go the extra step to actually encode your address database against the eircode database

It all depends on what the business is of course.
insurance companies would like to cluster the addresses for loss adjusting purposes and so on.
An on-line shop that uses a third party to deliver the goods won't care.

SpaceTime

Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »

All I want to know is whether I will be able to use my Garmin as handily as in the UK and no longer will have to guess the nearest street???

Assuming that it's updated to work with eircode you won't even need the street address - enter eircode and the address should pop up.

Carawaystick

ukoda wrote: »

They start in June and will be finished by the end of June I'm pretty sure that's what they said anyway

I'm pretty sure they said it'd be done before the end of April too.