National Postcodes to be introduced

clewbays

Sam Russell wrote: »

everyone should be able to find an address

In the short and medium term, smart postcodes and technology are the only way to find addresses with no house number and no road name and all residents having the same surname! We can become Little Switzerland in the longer term!

Sam Russell

oscarBravo wrote: »

Yeah, it's a ridiculous idea. Imagine if you were walking down Wolfe Tone Quay, and then all of a sudden you found yourself on Ellis Quay, then Arran Quay, then Inns Quay, then Ormond Quay, then Bachelor's Walk, then Eden Quay, then Custom House Quay, then North Wall Quay - all without taking a turn.

That would be ridiculous.

Indeed.

SPDUB

Sam Russell wrote: »

To get unique addresses, they should start to be introduced

Start with all urban properties that are on a named road but without house numbers. Simples. So Fancy Villa, Popoff Avenue becomes Fancy Villa, 17 Popoff Ave.
.

As told to me by a postman I know Miss Madeupname has been told numerous times her house number is 17 Popoff Ave but absolutely refuses to use it and tells everyone to write to her at Fancy Villa Popoff Ave.because she has always used that

I'm not saying she'll use Eircode but a unique address was provided for her so what is your solution to non use of that .

Sam Russell

SPDUB wrote: »

As told to me by a postman I know Miss Madeupname has been told numerous times her house number is 17 Popoff Ave but absolutely refuses to use it and tells everyone to write to her at Fancy Villa Popoff Ave.because she has always used that

I'm not saying she'll use Eircode but a unique address was provided for her so what is your solution to non use of that .

Do not deliver her post unless it is properly addressed.

Either tell her to collect it from the depot or An Post returns it to sender. Alternatively, they charge an excess postage for incorrect address.

SPDUB

Sam Russell wrote: »

Do not deliver her post unless it is properly addressed.

Either tell her to collect it from the depot or An Post returns it to sender. Alternatively, they charge an excess postage for incorrect address.

As the law currently stands legally only a replacement postman on the route on their first , possible second , day would have a defence for not delivering it because it easy to spot the name on it when you are out on the road .

After that because they are "aware" of where the house is they are obliged to deliver to it .

The law would have to be changed to allow any of what you are proposing

Impetus

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

I don't quite understand what people are complaining about?
What about their address and phone number? All readily available, but I expect some people like to keep a low profile for "various reasons", i.e. paying bills or maybe they have to worry about being found? By who, though? A giant rabbit called Harvey?
I know people who live in the countryside using deliberately obtuse addresses and maybe aliases, they are usually concerned about being identified, mostly because they want to stay off the radar.
Has to be something iffy. I simply don't see the problem, I mean don't these people have an address already? And now this address will have a code with it. Hardly the stuff of Nazi Germany, it's not like they will be picked up at 3am and brought to the gulag or the Siberian saltmine.
I'd say it's 50% hysteria and 50% paranoia with people complaining about this system. Unless they got something to hide...

Germany had a four digit postcode until re-unification. EG D-6000 = Frankfurt. It was simple and logical. D-8000 was Muenchen to the south, D-7000 was Stuttgart, and D-5000 was Koln. Postal zone numbers were suffixed after the town name - as in IE-1000 Dublin 2.

Neither the old nor new German systems assign a unique code to each private house or apartment.

Snoopers watching online traffic - eg NSA & co, can suck in an Eircode and it will give them a lat/long reference to the house in question. Given the appalling security standards in Irish government and business websites - see http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=24 for a few examples of same. Ireland has no nationally owned phone company a la Swisscom or Deutsche Telekom. BT and Voda (who will be using the ESB fibre infrastructure) no doubt have "good relations" with GCHQ.

The users of Eircode will have to show themselves to have A+++ security, or else postcodes should not be supplied. En masse. It is also a very stupid postcode - could you imagine 6000 being Frankfurt and 6002 being Hamburg? Just because some idiot politician thinks he could catch some extra votes from the measure.

To top it all, they use a company which one suspects does a lot of business with the spying agencies - the people who support a million deaths in Iraq and have created ISIS. There would have been no IRA if Britain left Ireland to manage itself over the centuries.

dr.fuzzenstein

That is because Germany has proper planning and zoning. We have well defined villages and towns. The German system works, because it still leads you to the door, something you seem to have problems with.
But if the address is Sam Spud, the bog, 1234 the nearest village, the postman still can't find it.
This whole argument of "but postie knows where I live", what is this? Middle Earth? We might as well argue the hobbits don't have post codes.
You argument is "but now they can find my house!", well, you know, that's kinda the point of postcodes.

Sam Russell

SPDUB wrote: »

As the law currently stands legally only a replacement postman on the route on their first , possible second , day would have a defence for not delivering it because it easy to spot the name on it when you are out on the road .

After that because they are "aware" of where the house is they are obliged to deliver to it .

The law would have to be changed to allow any of what you are proposing

I doubt that that is the law.

Just because a particular postie knows where you live and can deliver incorrectly addressed post to you should not give you the right to use a personally preferred address that incorrectly addresses your mail, and have the legal right to have that mail delivered to you without penalty.

I would have thought the An Post could simply 'Return To Sender - Unknown Address'

ukoda

I wonder will people's noses be out of joint when eircode validates their address against the geo directory and it's not address variation they use.

So if they are online and enter their eircode and it brings back the official address and they don't like it because it's not how they write it.... They'll complain won't they?

I just hope that An Post or eircode won't entertain them.

SpaceTime

I know my MPRN actually brings up a misspelt address for me!

So I'm sure genuine errors are possible.

ukoda

SpaceTime wrote: »

I know my MPRN actually brings up a misspelt address for me!

So I'm sure genuine errors are possible.

The ESB Networks database isn't actually validated against the geo directory at all (altough they are doing it now as they are part of the eircode rollout)

But you can actually ask ESB to do an address amendment and they will oblige (they research it first to ensure its correct, but if it is they will change it)

BowWow

SpaceTime wrote: »

I know my MPRN actually brings up a misspelt address for me!

Mine too.

my3cents

ukoda wrote: »

I wonder will people's noses be out of joint when eircode validates their address against the geo directory and it's not address variation they use.

So if they are online and enter their eircode and it brings back the official address and they don't like it because it's not how they write it.... They'll complain won't they?

I just hope that An Post or eircode won't entertain them.

AN POST'S HIGH COURT RULING REGARDING POSTAL ADDRESSES.

ukoda

my3cents wrote: »

AN POST'S HIGH COURT RULING REGARDING POSTAL ADDRESSES.

This is good. I hope they enforce this with the rollout of eircode. The letter should have their eircode and their official (and only) address on it

Impetus

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

That is because Germany has proper planning and zoning. We have well defined villages and towns. The German system works, because it still leads you to the door, something you seem to have problems with.
But if the address is Sam Spud, the bog, 1234 the nearest village, the postman still can't find it.
This whole argument of "but postie knows where I live", what is this? Middle Earth? We might as well argue the hobbits don't have post codes.
You argument is "but now they can find my house!", well, you know, that's kinda the point of postcodes.

Not really. I totally agree with the need for zoning and clear indications of end of town name on the road, and road names and house numbers. And it is very easy to find most addresses in Germany, without a GPS.

The random number generated postcode will do nothing to fix this problem. Taken to the extreme - let's say Ireland adopted a road/street number postcode for each address.

We might have 2000 for Cork city centre and 001 for Patrick Street. So the postcode for 45 Patrick street would be 2000 001 Cork. This would be clear enough for the honest person who had the street name and house number, but not useful for data snooping by NSA, GCHQ etc on internet traffic. The street layout could be in logical numerical order within each postal zone. All the streets off Patrick street might be in the 010 to 020 range, in sequence The name on the street sign might be updated to include not only the street/road name but also the last 3 digits of the postcode for the street ID. It would make it easy for deliveries and visits and loading packages on a vehicle so that they could be picked out as the van driver arrived at the street.

In rural address terms the same code would work. Each road in a townland could be assigned a postcode - eg 8922 001, 8922 002 etc for adjacent roads. The 001 and 002 bit could be indicated with discrete road signs. Add metric based house numbering if you wish.

We already have 8 digit building numbers assigned to each building in the national geodirectory. The only problem is that they and quasi random and bear no relationship with the position of the building in geospace. You could pay a zillion EUR for a copy of the geodirectory and it would not be very helpful in identifying an address.

We are now entering phase two - after wasting millions on a geodirectory, with a stupidly random unique ID number system for each building - which is useless to anybody except data snoopers and bureaucrats. Ireland is now wasting millions more on a re-invent the wheel, un-user-friendly, Eircode. To add insult to injury, the "system" is being managed by a company who appears to work for GCHQ and similar agencies. The same organizations that have been responsible for mayhem and murder of millions of brown people in the middle east (as part of a naive attempt at an oil grab).

No thank you to the Eircode or the people behind it, or its "design".

Impetus

clewbays wrote: »

In the short and medium term, smart postcodes and technology are the only way to find addresses with no house number and no road name and all residents having the same surname! We can become Little Switzerland in the longer term!

"Little Switzerland" has had a 4 digit postcode since its inception. Every street has a name and every building has a number, including the federal parliament building in Bern. And there are far more surnames in CH than in IRL.

ukoda

Impetus wrote: »

Not really. I totally agree with the need for zoning and clear indications of end of town name on the road, and road names and house numbers. And it is very easy to find most addresses in Germany, without a GPS.

The random number generated postcode will do nothing to fix this problem. Taken to the extreme - let's say Ireland adopted a road/street number postcode for each address.

We might have 2000 for Cork city centre and 001 for Patrick Street. So the postcode for 45 Patrick street would be 2000 001 Cork. This would be clear enough for the honest person who had the street name and house number, but not useful for data snooping by NSA, GCHQ etc on internet traffic. The street layout could be in logical numerical order within each postal zone. All the streets off Patrick street might be in the 010 to 020 range, in sequence The name on the street sign might be updated to include not only the street/road name but also the last 3 digits of the postcode for the street ID. It would make it easy for deliveries and visits and loading packages on a vehicle so that they could be picked out as the van driver arrived at the street.

In rural address terms the same code would work. Each road in a townland could be assigned a postcode - eg 8922 001, 8922 002 etc for adjacent roads. The 001 and 002 bit could be indicated with discrete road signs. Add metric based house numbering if you wish.

We already have 8 digit building numbers assigned to each building in the national geodirectory. The only problem is that they and quasi random and bear no relationship with the position of the building in geospace. You could pay a zillion EUR for a copy of the geodirectory and it would not be very helpful in identifying an address.

We are now entering phase two - after wasting millions on a geodirectory, with a stupidly random unique ID number system for each building - which is useless to anybody except data snoopers and bureaucrats. Ireland is now wasting millions more on a re-invent the wheel, un-user-friendly, Eircode. To add insult to injury, the "system" is being managed by a company who appears to work for GCHQ and similar agencies. The same organizations that have been responsible for mayhem and murder of millions of brown people in the middle east (as part of a naive attempt at an oil grab).

No thank you to the Eircode or the people behind it, or its "design".

I'm not sure what part of this is worse:
The overly complicated postcode you propose
The NSA is spying on us
The association you make to capita being run by murders
The stealing of "brown people's" oil reference

Impetus

ukoda wrote: »

The ESB Networks database isn't actually validated against the geo directory at all (altough they are doing it now as they are part of the eircode rollout)

But you can actually ask ESB to do an address amendment and they will oblige (they research it first to ensure its correct, but if it is they will change it)

The ESB had an intelligently designed account number system back in the day. It was nine digits long. And was geographically intelligent. Over the past few years it has become extremely stupid with a separate account number and MPRN. There was no reason why the introduction of "competition" in the electricity market needed this. Competitors could have used the standard ESB account number for their customers.

I notice that every child is being assigned a new ID number for health services. Another massive waste of bureaucracy. Why don't they use the child's PPSN?

Over the past few years, we had second home tax, an interim property tax and now an LPT. They all required different numbering and bureaucracy and accounting systems.

Which is a total waste of public money and adds needless complexity to the every day life of victim citizens/residents.

Efficient governments are there to serve the customer, in the most minimalist way possible. Simplifying life, and saving money.

Impetus

ukoda wrote: »

I'm not sure what part of this is worse:
The overly complicated postcode you propose
The NSA is spying on us
The association you make to capita being run by murders
The stealing of "brown people's" oil reference

The suggested postcode is not complex - it is simple and basic. Neighbouring streets have their own code, in sequential order to the geo location of the street.

If you like the idea of the NSA/GCHQ spying on you, may I suggest that you apply for a US taxpayer ID, and put it in brackets after your real name on emails, letters, and social media postings.

I did not say that capita is run by murders - I said that they do business with states that engage in murder and terrorism.

If you do any research on the work done by the US / GB military on their assault on Iraq - their first objective was not finding alleged "weapons of mass destruction" - it was getting control of oil wells. Oil is freely traded in the world markets. There is no need to use military force to get oil, unless you plan on stealing it.

ukoda

Impetus wrote: »

The suggested postcode is not complex - it is simple and basic. Neighbouring streets have their own code, in sequential order to the geo location of the street.

If you like the idea of the NSA/GCHQ spying on you, may I suggest that you apply for a US taxpayer ID, and put it in brackets after your real name on emails, letters, and social media postings.

I did not say that capita is run by murders - I said that they do business with states that engage in murder and terrorism.

If you do any research on the work done by the US / GB military on their assault on Iraq - their first objective was not finding alleged "weapons of mass destruction" - it was getting control of oil wells. Oil is freely traded in the world markets. There is no need to use military force to get oil, unless you plan on stealing it.

You know it's funny you mention that! Because just last week I saw a dog that was nearly all white but had a black tail.

Just thought I'd mention that as it's about as relevant to this thread as most of the stuff you post.

Impetus

ukoda wrote: »

You know it's funny you mention that! Because just last week I saw a dog that was nearly all white but had a black tail.

Just thought I'd mention that as it's about as relevant to this thread as most of the stuff you post.

Please don't be so dumb.

Bayberry

my3cents wrote: »

AN POST'S HIGH COURT RULING REGARDING POSTAL ADDRESSES.

God, how I HATE blog posts that have a Day and Month listed at the top, but no year. If your musings are so ephemeral that they don't need a proper date, then delete them after a day or two!

The blogger clearly has an axe to grind, as they deliberately misconstrue the situation - An Post doesn't have the right to assign you an address, but they do have the right to not deliver post to an address that doesn't accord with the addressing system that An Post uses. In this case, as far as I can remember, the end user wanted to use a town name (Watergrass Hill?) that is part of a different "Postal Town" that doesn't handle mail for the side of the river that the person lives on. Because he was using the wrong town name, his mail was being sent to the wrong sorting center, which had to correct the address and forward it to the correct sorting center.

The real pity is that An Post doesn't do this kind of thing more often, and pull rank on people when it comes to delivering ambiguously addressed mail. It just adds insult to injury that urban dwellers have to subsidise this nonsense, and now have to put up with a dogs dinner of a post code because our politicians would rather "be modern" than be efficient (remember how that woked out for Bertie and his "auld pencils"!!)

I heart TV

How will these eircodes work with the Traveller community? say a Traveller family are living in ballybackwards in july but move their caravan 3 or 4 miles up the road to ballyupwards in august.

ukoda

I heart TV wrote: »

How will these eircodes work with the Traveller community? say a Traveller family are living in ballybackwards in july but move their caravan 3 or 4 miles up the road to ballyupwards in august.

How does their post work now I wonder? Do they even get post if they are "off grid" so to speak?

dr.fuzzenstein

ukoda wrote: »

How does their post work now I wonder? Do they even get post if they are "off grid" so to speak?

Especially if you address is "in a field off the motorway, just hop the fence 5km from exit 13, but we may have moved on by now".

murpho999

I just can't believe the stuff people are now posting against postcodes.

Privacy, spying and even Islamic state. You couldn't make it up.

I hate how he internet gives barstoolers like this a platform to spread their sh1te.

Bayberry

murpho999 wrote: »

I just can't believe the stuff people are now posting against postcodes.

Impetus may be talking sh1te, but he isn't against postcodes. He's against eircode. Which, as it happens, is a sh1te postcode.

plodder

The one thing that jumps out at me from the new legislation is the declaration that various things about Eircode are "legitimate activities". Does that mean they wouldn't be legitimate without the changes? <edit> It seems the purpose of that list is make Section 6A of the Data protection Act 1998, not apply to postcodes. Section 6A relates to the "Right of data subject to object to processing likely to cause damage or distress"

Trouwe Ier

As a state, the Republic's foreign and export policies are open to question. Our biggest trading partners and probably closest cultural partners are to the west and east of this island and we as a state have not been too fussed about doing business with them (and just for the record, I don't approve of parliamentarians breaking and entering into secure areas and refusing to pay their court fines either).

Two or three years ago, we welcomed the Dalai Lama. Last week, Enda had a guest in West Mayo: business is business. The other inconvenient truth is that we are all guilty of fuzzy ethics. I buy a lot of U.K. magazines, My phone was made in China etc......

Furthermore, the "state" already has my date of birth, PPSN, address and tax history. My LPT is deducted from my wages so I don't see how the introduction of an eircode benefits the state at my expense. Because I live in a city with street names and house numbers, anyone who knows my address can type it into Google Street View and see my house, what car I had in 2009, who my bin service provider was etc.

However, this blog is about post codes!

Has anyone any idea about the allocation of routing keys?

dr.fuzzenstein

There's a lot of this in some poster's arguments:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6VS8AVK7yE

(sorry, very low volume)