National Postcodes to be introduced

Alun

ukoda wrote: »

Yeah and you've to get it added on, it's not widely used at all. Despite what people might claim

It's on my Garmin as standard. Never used it though.

ukoda

Alun wrote: »

It's on my Garmin as standard. Never used it though.

I'm pretty sure you've to get it unlocked on each device, which basically means getting the alogrithm added on to the device.

recedite

If the driver says he has a sat nav, give him the raw co-ordinates.
If its a Garmin sat-nav, give him the loc8 code; its shorter and has a built-in checker digit. Either will get him straight to your door.

If he is one of these guys who won't use a sat-nav because he is such a know-all, then you are snookered. You are in for a series of annoying phone calls. After you have got your eircode, that won't change.

Sam Russell

Sam Russell wrote: »

Will post codes be listed in the telephone book?

I see no reason why not, it's(soon will be) part of your address after all!

Bayberry

ukoda wrote: »

Well we've had reports on here of people putting loc8 codes on their packages and the driver not have a clue what it is or what to do with it.

Chicken and egg, really. But Dr Fuzzenstein described a 15 minute conversation with a delivery person, that he said was a regular occurence. My own feeling is that if this situation was really that big a problem for delivery drivers, they'd be the ones calling and telling you how to look up your LOC8 code (or your raw geo coordinates).

ukoda

Bayberry wrote: »

Chicken and egg, really. But Dr Fuzzenstein described a 15 minute conversation with a delivery person, that he said was a regular occurence. My own feeling is that if this situation was really that big a problem for delivery drivers, they'd be the ones calling and telling you how to look up your LOC8 code (or your raw geo coordinates).

I really can't see a delivery driver promoting to a customer to go on to a website to get them a code to put into their sat nav, I doubt the company would like them doing that either. Loc8 just isn't popular despite it being around for so long

Bayberry

Random_Name wrote: »

Isn't it only garmin that use that? Because it sure as hell won't bring anything up if you type it into google or apple maps.

I don't know about Apple maps, but Google Maps don't work all that well if you're not online. If you're online, you can lookup a LOC8 code even if you don't have a Garmin.

Avada

Bayberry wrote: »

I don't know about Apple maps, but Google Maps don't work all that well if you're not online. If you're online, you can lookup a LOC8 code even if you don't have a Garmin.

What about all the non-garmin sat navs?

Bayberry

Alun wrote: »

It's on my Garmin as standard. Never used it though.

How often do you have to call people up and ask them for directions to their house, because you can't find them using your Garmin? If that doesn't happen very often, it's hardy surprising that you've never used Loc8.

Alun

ukoda wrote: »

I'm pretty sure you've to get it unlocked on each device, which basically means getting the alogrithm added on to the device.

Nope, it just works straight out of the box, I've just tried it.

Alun

Bayberry wrote: »

How often do you have to call people up and ask them for directions to their house, because you can't find them using your Garmin? If that doesn't happen very often, it's hardy surprising that you've never used Loc8.

Never. I always research where I'm going first and enter coords if necessary. Anyway, the chances of anyone I'm visiting knowing their Loc8 code, or even knowing what it is, are so vanishingly small, it's not worth bothering.

recedite

Geo co-ordinates aren't very popular either, despite being around even longer.

What happens in 6 months time when the driver calls and says he has a sat-nav, but its not connected to the internet or pre-loaded with the eircode database?
Back to giving directions? Or else keep those co-ordinates and loc8 codes handy.

Bayberry

Random_Name wrote: »

What about all the non-garmin sat navs?

As I said above "your Loc8 code or your geo-coordinates". Loc8 is just an encoded form of the geo-cordinates, which makes it easier to enter, and has a checksum, but most sat-navs have a way of entering co-ordinates directly.

The fact that people don't do this (deliverers or deliverees) suggests that either it's not as big a problem as some people suggest, or that Irish people would rather moan about things than do something about it.

I think both are probably true.

Bayberry

ukoda wrote: »

I really can't see a delivery driver promoting to a customer to go on to a website to get them a code to put into their sat nav, I doubt the company would like them doing that either. Loc8 just isn't popular despite it being around for so long

Seriously? You think a delivery company would rather delay a delivery by 2 or 3 days, and rack up additional miles and man hours, including wasting time on the phone looking for half arsed directions, but would be embarrassed to ask the go to a website, zoom in on their location on a map, and make a note of the coordinates?

I'd suggest that if Loc8 isn't all that popular, it's because the problem that it solves, isn't really a problem for many people.

hognef

moyners wrote: »

They're listed in the UK phone book. I suppose it would be up to Eircom to decide if it's necessary. They might decide it's more trouble than it's worth given how some people are uber-sensitive about their data. Phone books for residential numbers have a limited future anyway IMO - more and more people want to be ex-directory and less and less people feel the need for a landline, or like us, have one just because it comes with the broadband and rarely use it.

An (online and cross-operator) phonebook including mobile numbers, full first names (not just initials) and reverse lookups (i.e. know the number, need the name) might actually be useful.

Bayberry

recedite wrote: »

Geo co-ordinates aren't very popular either, despite being around even longer.

Which suggests that it this whole non-delivery issue isn't as big a problem as some people make out, becaue there are extremely simple solutions that are not being used.

What happens in 6 months time when the driver calls and says he has a sat-nav, but its not connected to the internet or pre-loaded with the eircode database?

6 months? Try 6 years!

Bayberry

hognef wrote: »

An (online and cross-operator) phonebook including mobile numbers, full first names (not just initials) and reverse lookups (i.e. know the number, need the name) might actually be useful.

Not gonna happen. Most people won't give out their mobile numbers, there'd be a stink if someone tried to publish a direcory of them.

Impetus

Bayberry wrote: »

Impetus may be talking sh1te, but he isn't against postcodes. He's against eircode. Which, as it happens, is a sh1te postcode.

Got it in one. Sh1te mainly from vested interests.

hognef

hognef wrote: »

An (online and cross-operator) phonebook including mobile numbers, full first names (not just initials) and reverse lookups (i.e. know the number, need the name) might actually be useful.

There would be some serious privacy issues involved with this.

Sam Russell

Deleted User wrote: »

There would be some serious privacy issues involved with this.

I think you are talking about Eircodes.

Impetus

recedite wrote: »

Geo co-ordinates aren't very popular either, despite being around even longer.

Which is more user-friendly at / near the point of delivery?

9 Patrick Street, Kilkenny or 52.649527, -7.251523, not to mind the minutes and seconds option. If you turn this lat/long into an alpha num code, a la locate8, it is almost as user friendly as the horribly mangled Eircode. Because it does not allow for the way the countryside and cities have been segmented into streets, districts etc. It is just a square blob.

A simple code is great for broad geographic segmentation / sorting. eg it is easy for a machine or human to put all merchandise with a 5600 postcode into a van delivering to Kilkenny. Easier than digesting a full street, road, town and county and throwing the box in a particular sorting pile. If you want a postcode system to work at a lower level, you can add a code for each street as in 5600 001 for Patrick Street, KK. And if the codes are logically assigned along the legally drivable delivery route, so much the better.

But the eircode is a total waste of money, and a needless hassle to impose on a nation, with zero benefit in terms of productivity and efficiency. Another layer of expensive bureaucracy.

Sam Russell

Sam Russell wrote: »

I think you are talking about Eircodes.

no the reverse lookup of the phone number, giving out your address, with or without a postcode is one thing, you're expecting someone to need to know where you are. Reverse looking up a phone number is different as you are not inviting the called party to know where you live.

dr.fuzzenstein

Bayberry wrote: »

If you've had this conversation more than twice, and you don't know your LOC8 code, or even your raw coordinates, it's because you enjoy wallowing in misery.

Had I ever heard anything about it, or had anyone in Ireland ever mentioned it in the 20 years that I am here, or the delivery company ever asked for it, or had there ever been the tiniest mention of it any-fcuking-where online, in the papers, online or on TV I might have conceivably used any system you care to mention.
That's how well fcuking publicized all the other systems are, no fcuker has ever fcuking heard about them.
A system that no one knows about, no one uses and that is referenced exactly nowhere by nobody ever is about as useful as the pope's balls or tits on a fish.
Anyway, it's coming in and if that annoys some people, good.

oscarBravo

Bayberry wrote: »

Chicken and egg, really. But Dr Fuzzenstein described a 15 minute conversation with a delivery person, that he said was a regular occurence. My own feeling is that if this situation was really that big a problem for delivery drivers, they'd be the ones calling and telling you how to look up your LOC8 code (or your raw geo coordinates).

This is just another thinly disguised "I haven't had this problem, therefore it isn't a problem" post.

I get courier deliveries on a reasonably regular basis. Any time a new driver has to deliver something - or, for that matter, a driver who hasn't been here in a while - I get a phone call and have to give detailed turn-by-turn directions. I don't get asked for a Loc8 code, and I don't get asked for my latitude and longitude, because nobody (rounding down) knows what a Loc8 code is; nobody knows what their lat/long is; most people know how to give directions (albeit some are terrible at it).

There is at present no systematic way to know where all the recipients of deliveries are, because our addresses are haphazard. Delivery companies have adapted to this painful reality by making a lot of phone calls and being fairly hit-and-miss as to whether they get to deliver first time.

If every parcel had an eircode on it, that provides a completely accurate pinpoint location for every delivery. This allows systems to be put in place to plan routes in advance, allowing greater efficiency and much less time wasted on phone calls.

I know there are some of you who will never accept that eircodes could possibly have any positives whatsoever, but like I say, that seems to boil down to "I don't need it, therefore it's pointless".

recedite

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

A system that no one knows about, no one uses and that is referenced exactly nowhere by nobody ever is about as useful as the pope's balls or tits on a fish.
Anyway, it's coming in and if that annoys some people, good.

You said in your example that the van driver said "I have a sat-nav".
That was the hint for you to give your co-ords or the loc 8 code if you had them. If you didn't, then he's not going to waste time on his phone trying to explain to you what these things are.

Even when everybody is assigned their eircode, there will still be some van drivers who will still ask for directions because they don't carry a device that can look-up the eircode, access the co-ordinates, and then navigate to the site.

As Bayberry says, this is only an issue in rural areas anyway. A basic sat-nav will find most urban addresses just by putting in the address. And a van driver will know where most of the estates are in his area, even without a sat-nav.

MBSnr

oscarBravo wrote: »

This is just another thinly disguised "I haven't had this problem, therefore it isn't a problem" post.

I get courier deliveries on a reasonably regular basis. Any time a new driver has to deliver something - or, for that matter, a driver who hasn't been here in a while - I get a phone call and have to give detailed turn-by-turn directions. I don't get asked for a Loc8 code, and I don't get asked for my latitude and longitude, because nobody (rounding down) knows what a Loc8 code is; nobody knows what their lat/long is; most people know how to give directions (albeit some are terrible at it).

There is at present no systematic way to know where all the recipients of deliveries are, because our addresses are haphazard. Delivery companies have adapted to this painful reality by making a lot of phone calls and being fairly hit-and-miss as to whether they get to deliver first time.

If every parcel had an eircode on it, that provides a completely accurate pinpoint location for every delivery. This allows systems to be put in place to plan routes in advance, allowing greater efficiency and much less time wasted on phone calls.

I know there are some of you who will never accept that eircodes could possibly have any positives whatsoever, but like I say, that seems to boil down to "I don't need it, therefore it's pointless".

I'm with you here. I get deliveries on a regular basis at my work address - being as it is pretty generic in the business park - I've aways had to talk them in, like a pilot in fog, if they have not delivered to the address before.

Not one driver in over 10yrs has mentioned Loc8 or said it would have been handy to have your GPS co-ords..... I'm sorry but those suggesting there isn't an issue as they don't ask for Loc8 is BS.

recedite

MBSnr wrote: »

Not one driver in over 10yrs has mentioned Loc8 or said it would have been handy to have your GPS co-ords...

As someone mentioned earlier, its a chicken and egg situation.
This is where a state sanctioned system, even one as bad as eircode, has a major advantage. Because in future the default assumption will be that all households should have an eircode (and know it) and all drivers should know how to use them (and be suitably equipped with a navigation device to use them)

Although the fact that some drivers are talking about only using the routing key part of the eircode, and making their own maps of those, does not bode well for the consumer who does not enjoy repeatedly giving out directions to their house.

dashcamdanny

recedite wrote: »

As someone mentioned earlier, its a chicken and egg situation.
This is where a state sanctioned system, even one as bad as eircode, has a major advantage. Because in future the default assumption will be that all households should have an eircode (and know it) and all drivers should know how to use them (and be suitably equipped with a navigation device to use them)

Although the fact that some drivers are talking about only using the routing key part of the eircode, and making their own maps of those, does not bode well for the consumer who does not enjoy repeatedly giving out directions to their house.

I work for one of these delivery companies. We all use consumer sat navs and have smart phone with GPS.
Hard to reach clients are first found and their coordinates saved on a profile kept for each person. I have never once asked for coordinates as the customer would not have a clue what I was even on about.

I look forward to eircode. And having the tech to be able to read them.

Bayberry

oscarBravo wrote: »

This is just another thinly disguised "I haven't had this problem, therefore it isn't a problem" post.

Absolutely not - I have said clearly that the fact that delivery drivers can't be arsed using any sort of geo-cordinate system (whether Loc8 or raw coordinates) suggests that they don't really see the current sitation as that big a deal.

I get courier deliveries on a reasonably regular basis. Any time a new driver has to deliver something - or, for that matter, a driver who hasn't been here in a while - I get a phone call and have to give detailed turn-by-turn directions. I don't get asked for a Loc8 code, and I don't get asked for my latitude and longitude, because nobody (rounding down) knows what a Loc8 code is; nobody knows what their lat/long is; most people know how to give directions (albeit some are terrible at it).

Make up your mind - either we don't need a code, because most people know how to give directions, or we do need a code, but nobody can be arsed using one, because they know how to give directions.

This bizarre "Omerta" thing that some people seem to have about Loc8 codes (They didn't ask me about Loc8, so I didn't tell them) is bizarre, especially from people who insist that eircodes are the best thing since sliced bread. The people who'd rather spend 20 minutes on the phone giving directions are going to keep doing that - and the delivery drivers who couldn't be take 30 seconds to ask you if you can download the loc8 app, aren't going to be any better!

dr.fuzzenstein

recedite wrote: »

You said in your example that the van driver said "I have a sat-nav".
That was the hint for you to give your co-ords or the loc 8 code if you had them. If you didn't, then he's not going to waste time on his phone trying to explain to you what these things are.

Even when everybody is assigned their eircode, there will still be some van drivers who will still ask for directions because they don't carry a device that can look-up the eircode, access the co-ordinates, and then navigate to the site.

As Bayberry says, this is only an issue in rural areas anyway. A basic sat-nav will find most urban addresses just by putting in the address. And a van driver will know where most of the estates are in his area, even without a sat-nav.

Since you obviously didn't read it, here it is again: :rolleyes:

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Had I ever heard anything about it, or had anyone in Ireland ever mentioned it in the 20 years that I am here, or the delivery company ever asked for it, or had there ever been the tiniest mention of it any-fcuking-where online, in the papers, online or on TV I might have conceivably used any system you care to mention.
That's how well fcuking publicized all the other systems are, no fcuker has ever fcuking heard about them.
A system that no one knows about, no one uses and that is referenced exactly nowhere by nobody ever is about as useful as the pope's balls or tits on a fish.
Anyway, it's coming in and if that annoys some people, good.

I also give you

MBSnr wrote: »

I'm with you here. I get deliveries on a regular basis at my work address - being as it is pretty generic in the business park - I've aways had to talk them in, like a pilot in fog, if they have not delivered to the address before.

Not one driver in over 10yrs has mentioned Loc8 or said it would have been handy to have your GPS co-ords..... I'm sorry but those suggesting there isn't an issue as they don't ask for Loc8 is BS.

and

dashcamdanny wrote: »

I work for one of these delivery companies. We all use consumer sat navs and have smart phone with GPS.
Hard to reach clients are first found and their coordinates saved on a profile kept for each person. I have never once asked for coordinates as the customer would not have a clue what I was even on about.

I look forward to eircode. And having the tech to be able to read them.

So, in short, we would use it if we fcuking knew about it. Sadly all these glorious, wondrous postcodes have been an extremely well kept secret.
Maybe Eircode will change that? Of course cranks, angry loners, hippies without planning permission, the freeman brigade and some general loons will refuse to use it, but for the rest of us, it will be an improvement over what's there right now-nothing.
Also, you said

this is only an issue in rural areas anyway. A basic sat-nav will find most urban addresses just by putting in the address.

Well aint that swell and dandy for you. I'm alright and feck the rest. Marvelous. Good for you.