National Postcodes to be introduced

yuloni

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dr.fuzzenstein

yuloni wrote: »

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Because we never heard of it.

yuloni

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Sam Russell

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Because we never heard of it.

Well you have now.

You should by now have found out yours an taped to your phone for the next delivery man that calls looking for directions.

Edit: Beaten to it.

plodder

marmurr1916 wrote: »

People *have* taken to postcodes like ducks to water in the UK.

I think it took a little longer than that. But, it was helped by:
1) postcodes were actually needed for delivering mail
2) they have a simple hierarchical structure that's easy to understand and remember (eg the first two/three characters relate to your region) and your neighbours all have the same code.

I know my current UK postcode off by heart and I remember all my previous postcodes.

It's often one of the first pieces of identifying information I'm asked for when I phone a state agency, whether it be my local council or the tax office, or when I ask for an insurance quote either online or by phone, whether it be for home insurance or car insurance.

I'm also asked for it by every single utilities provider and every single time I buy something online or over the phone.

Even takeaways ask for your postcode when you make an order for delivery.

They probably even have a map on the wall showing the local postcode areas. So, they can easily tell what areas they deliver too. Won't be possible with Eircodes.

Your postcode is one of the ways that your credit or debit card is confirmed for remote (online or phone) transactions.

It's become a normal part of life in the UK to know and use your postcode regularly. I don't see how it's likely to be much different in Ireland.

I think it will become part of normal life here too in a more limited way. The most enthusiastic people here are those who live in rural areas with non unique addresses or addresses that aren't suitable for navigation. They have most to gain. It's debatable what's in it for others, other than avoiding embarrassment when people/websites ask what their postcode is

a65b2cd

Bayberry wrote: »

Apparently, though, it'll save insurance companies millions, because they're not smart enough to flag duplicate applications from within 20metre of the same point, unless the government spends €25million to build a database for them.

Bayberry wrote: »

Many of the suggested benefits for the Insurance industry, for example, were only true up to 20 years ago - now that converting a street address to a geo-code is fairly trivial, you don't need to pay for access to a database that allows you to look at someone elses conversion from an eircode to a geocode. :-)

hmmm ... which is it, insurance companies are not smart enough or it is trivial for them?

TheBustedFlush

irishgeo wrote: »

What about the pro loc8 mafia?

It's a pity that yer man getlosteircodes/GavTobi hasn't joined this thread - it would enliven the debate considerably for everyopne.

JohnC.

Bayberry wrote: »

Chicken and egg, really. But Dr Fuzzenstein described a 15 minute conversation with a delivery person, that he said was a regular occurence. My own feeling is that if this situation was really that big a problem for delivery drivers, they'd be the ones calling and telling you how to look up your LOC8 code (or your raw geo coordinates).

They don't need to call me up to ask for my Loc8 code. It's already on the package, so don't try the "refusing to use it" line. But they don't use it. Nobody uses it apart from Loc8 fanatics. Most people don't even know it exists. Loc8 fanatics don't seem to realise this.

Bayberry wrote: »

Was that barb supposed to be aimed at me? I just searched this thread, and the first reference to Loc8 codes just in this thread was post #143 on 13-07-2010 - almost 5 years ago! (That's 3 months before Instagram was launched, according to Wikipedia, just to give some context). So it's hardly as if Loc8 codes were some dark secret.

Again, existing for 5 years does not mean anyone knows about it. It's a 5 year old failure. Utterly useless in my experience as none of the delivery companies use it when delivering to me. None. And I could count on one hand the number of people I know who have ever heard of it. And none of them use it because it's useless. I still have it on my packages, but will be deleting it when the Eircode comes. I had hopes for Loc8 when it came, but it hasn't lived up to them.

All this talk of people not being able to remember their Eircode is more complete nonsense. It's shorter than their phone number and they manage to remember that. And much of it's use will probably be as a stored field in online accounts so they don't even need to remember it after they enter it the first time.

TheBustedFlush

Kahless wrote: »

They don't need to call me up to ask for my Loc8 code. It's already on the package, so don't try the "refusing to use it" line. But they don't use it. Nobody uses it apart from Loc8 fanatics. Most people don't even know it exists. Loc8 fanatics don't seem to realise this.



Again, existing for 5 years does not mean anyone knows about it. It's a 5 year old failure. Utterly useless in my experience as none of the delivery companies use it when delivering to me. None. And I could count on one hand the number of people I know who have ever heard of it. And none of them use it because it's useless. I still have it on my packages, but will be deleting it when the Eircode comes. I had hopes for Loc8 when it came, but it hasn't lived up to them.

All this talk of people not being able to remember their Eircode is more complete nonsense. It's shorter than their phone number and they manage to remember that. And much of it's use will probably be as a stored field in online accounts so they don't even need to remember it after they enter it the first time.

SHHH!!

Making bold statements like that will get you a severe painting with the looney brush by the pro-lo8code mafia

JohnC.

It's okay, when they come looking for me, I'll give them an Eircode and they won't be able to find me due to refusing to use it in favour of their failed code.

yuloni

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TheBustedFlush

Kahless wrote: »

It's okay, when they come looking for me, I'll give them an Eircode and they won't be able to find me due to refusing to use it in favour of their failed code.

yuloni wrote: »

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yeah I don't think failed is a fair description for the location codes. There's pros and cons to everything.

Some aspects of the current offerings are just clunky and difficult to use for punters. Looking up a code on the loc8 website is tiresome and the method needs to be changed to make it more accessible. The GoCode version just has a map and drop a pin to find the code - much simpler and you can enter addresses to get codes too but gets stuck sometimes and doesn't have all addresses.

Both of them could continue to be useful even after Eircode is eventually launched as location codes for places that don't have an address/postbox. They both have apps that generate codes pretty much immediately which is handy. And they can be linked to navigation software on smartphones. Not sure if that's enough as a business proposition, but certainly handy as a free service for public to use.

However, I see from their websites that they're both supported by enterprise Ireland so presumably they're planning to export their technology to other places at some point that are more populous and that's where the real income opportunities lie. Openpostcode has done it in Middle East, I think, and Go Code has started something in India, presumably Loc8 will get in on the act as well somewhere else. Ultimately that would be a better success story in Irish companies developing something that gets used around the world and creates jobs/monies for Ireland.

Bayberry

a65b2cd wrote: »

hmmm ... which is it, insurance companies are not smart enough or it is trivial for them?

I'm sorry, did I forget to add the Sarcasm tag. It's the proponents of eircodes who seem to think that the Insurance industry isn't smart enough convert addresses to geolocations, and the eircode will save them millions because it does this for them.

yuloni

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TheBustedFlush

TheBustedFlush wrote: »

It's a pity that yer man getlosteircodes/GavTobi hasn't joined this thread - it would enliven the debate considerably for everyopne.

The latest word/rumour/myth is that they're now looking to see if they can shift the launch until September apparently to deal with some further issues.

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TheBustedFlush

Deleted User wrote: »

I][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed"]citation needed[/URL][/I

Have deleted from original post as verbal only - apologies to all.

Trouwe Ier

I'm wondering at this stage if, given the FTA's approach, Eircode will try to delay for as long as possible, issuing open-access information about the routing key areas (e.g. area maps) and just send out the individualised letters.

I had a look at their residential guide and there is an example of how a letter should be addressed, showing a ficticious location in Macroom, Co. Cork, with the Eircode "T37 F8HK". That could mean that Macroom will be in the "T" area or it could mean that there will be no "T" at all. Nobody knows.

Finally, as has been stated (hundreds of pages?) previously, the name "Eircode" is another example of the obsession with patronisingly Gaelicising public service-related names in the Republic. "FÁS" means "grow" and "SOLAS" means "light" but these words don't automatically conjure up images of a training organisation. Similarly for "TUSLA", the "Child and Family Agency" whose initials in Irish are "AGuLaaT". Why do they do this?

"Delivery Code" or "Address Code" would have been adequately descriptive titles. Nobody outside of Ireland will know what an "Eircode" is until they have to use one.

Rant over!

JohnC.

Trouwe Ier wrote: »

Nobody outside of Ireland will know what an "Eircode" is until they have to use one.

Does it matter? How many Irish people know what CAP, CEP and PLZ are? And how many will get it completely wrong if they are asked what a PIN is? But it doesn't matter as everyone will see it as a postcode, whatever the local name happens to be.

Sam Russell

Roll on the Eircode lottery. I'll buy a ticket for that and hope I win something.

recedite

TD's will only be returning from their hols in September, and there are still a number of Dail and Seanad stages that the postcode bill will have to pass through before it can be enacted.

Kahless

Kahless wrote: »

Does it matter? How many Irish people know what CAP, CEP and PLZ are? And how many will get it completely wrong if they are asked what a PIN is? But it doesn't matter as everyone will see it as a postcode, whatever the local name happens to be.

True, It will be part of the address, people posting stuff to Ireland will just put it in the (currently blank) postcode/zip or whatever the box is called where they are.

dr.fuzzenstein

Deleted User wrote: »

True, It will be part of the address, people posting stuff to Ireland will just put it in the (currently blank) postcode/zip or whatever the box is called where they are.

Oh I'm sure millions of people all over the world will say "Hang on, this postcode does not make sense to me and I have concerns about privacy issues, I will therefore not use it!" :P

Bayberry

Trouwe Ier wrote: »

"Delivery Code" or "Address Code" would have been adequately descriptive titles. Nobody outside of Ireland will know what an "Eircode" is until they have to use one.

What's a ZIP code?

TheBustedFlush

Bayberry wrote: »

What's a ZIP code?

It stands for Zone Improvement Plan and is what they call the postcode in the United States of America.

Carawaystick

Bayberry wrote: »

What's a ZIP code?

Its like a CEDEX code but not in France, in America

recedite

recedite wrote: »

TD's will only be returning from their hols in September, and there are still a number of Dail and Seanad stages that the postcode bill will have to pass through before it can be enacted.

Does that mean that the postcodes will be issued but won't be legitimate or that they won't be issued until after the bill has been enacted?

TheBustedFlush

Deleted User wrote: »

Does that mean that the postcodes will be issued but won't be legitimate or that they won't be issued until after the bill has been enacted?

One might suspect the latter.

antoinolachtnai

There is still no agreed plan yet for the dissemination, according to an email I received from the Department on Wednesday. It is still being negotiated.

Bayberry

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

There is still no agreed plan yet for the dissemination, according to an email I received from the Department on Wednesday. It is still being negotiated.

No problem, sure they still have 5 weeks until the end of June!

recedite

Deleted User wrote: »

Does that mean that the postcodes will be issued but won't be legitimate or that they won't be issued until after the bill has been enacted?

Depends which one the PR guys think will look better. Either way, expect more undefined "delays" and "issues" before they can be used.