National Postcodes to be introduced

Trouwe Ier

As these briefings are ongoing and there has been no announcement to the contrary, perhaps the 2.2 million letters are going out this month so.

It may be worth checking this weekend's Sligo Leader!

Nice to see a few Limerick city centre views on their website!

Overnight twitter traffic below -

loc8code 6:23am via Twitter for Android
Hope she has more info than available to IR businesses. Bet she does even have real sample #eircode
Sligo LEADER @SligoLeader
Ann delivering info on Eircode at the Sligo LEADER info morning in Tubbercurry FRC.

loc8code 6:21am via Twitter for Android
@autoaddress you have no credibility on this subject. Unable to answer questions & cant give details on #eircode routing keys.
Show Conversation

davidrbarrett 12:21am via Twitter for Android
Eircode won’t invade privacy, says Data Protection Commissioner -
Tcarnus retweeted
Fergal Jun 03, 10:47am via Twitter Web Client
If yuou enjoyed the Irish Water debacle, you'll love Eircode.
8 retweets 10 favorites
openpostcode retweeted

faduda Jun 03, 8:56pm via Seesmic
@Fergal eircode doesn't cost citizens hard cash. It will remaon a small obscure row for wonks
1 retweet 1 favorite
faduda Jun 03, 8:56pm via Seesmic
@Fergal eircode doesn't cost citizens hard cash. It will remaon a small obscure row for wonks
1 retweet 1 favorite

plodder

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

The stated position is very clearly technically incorrect. There is no contradiction between a 'cluster based' postcode model and identifying every single house.

At least they accept there is a risk to privacy. But, what you say is true. Also, the privacy risk can be mitigated even with a unique per property code.

The full 12 digit US ZIP code identifies each delivery point, but the full 12 digits are rarely used. We could have had the same distinction between a 5 character Eircode and 7 characters. People could make a choice case by case, whether to use the 5 or 7 characters.

clewbays

Isn't that what we have. The 139 postal towns can be used to give an indication of where you live and the full code will give the exact location. For a country as small as Ireland 139 clusters are plenty. If you go smaller then you risk breaching privacy in analyses of the data. For example adding an extra character to the postal towns would give you 139 by 25 clusters or around 3,500. People would become identifiable and it would be unwieldy and meaningless. What population size are US zip codes?

plodder

clewbays wrote: »

Isn't that what we have. The 139 postal towns can be used to give an indication of where you live and the full code will give the exact location. For a country as small as Ireland 139 clusters are plenty. If you go smaller then you risk breaching privacy in analyses of the data. For example adding an extra character to the postal towns would give you 139 by 25 clusters or around 3,500. People would become identifiable and it would be unwieldy and meaningless.

The CSO designed their small areas to be as small as possible without impacting privacy. Much of the statistics they publish can be drilled down to small area level.

What population size are US zip codes?

I can't locate accurate figures right now. Just to clarify what I said earlier, the 12 digits does identify properties, but are typically only used as printed barcodes. Nobody would ever remember or use it directly. Even the 9 digit ZIP+4 code that in theory can be used by the public, is not that widely used either. I guess the problem is the size of the country and of the code itself.

larchill

The Zip Code is really a postal district (like a postal town), similiar to Dublin 1, Dublin 2, etc. From Wikipedia: "The expanded ZIP code system that it called ZIP+4, often called "plus-four codes", "add-on codes", or "add ons". A ZIP+4 code uses the basic five-digit code plus four additional digits to identify a geographic segment within the five-digit delivery area, such as a city block, a group of apartments, an individual high-volume receiver of mail or any other unit that could use an extra identifier to aid in efficient mail sorting and delivery" The ZIP + 4 isn't widely used now, it wasn't universally accepted by the US public. Modern OCR has now superceded the need for Zip + 4. OCR is the reason why An Post never had a need for postcodes to begin with! Will eircode go the way of ZIP + 4?

antoinolachtnai

Well, ZIP+4 isn't that critical on the face of the letter or parcel because there is a strong route/road naming structure and a robust numbering system in each area. There are never two streets with the same name (and usually not even a similar name) in the same postal area. There is a system for dealing with rural addresses We don't have that in Ireland.

Bayberry

plodder wrote: »

The full 12 digit US ZIP code identifies each delivery point, but the full 12 digits are rarely used.

The public only has access to ZIP+4, which is closer to the UK zip code - it covers a typcial street - and a lot of people don't know what their +4 even is - it gets printed on envelopes, but it is very seldom asked for, and never required.

The "full 12 digits" would be pretty much the same as whatever key An Post uses for their Geodirectory, which had identified every delivery point uniquely for years, and is available to any commercial customer who wants to pay for it.

Bayberry

clewbays wrote: »

What population size are US zip codes?

From http://www.zip-codes.com/zip-code-statistics.asp

Total U.S. ZIP Codes          41,733 100% 
  General ZIP Codes           29,767  71.3% 
  PO Box ZIP Codes             9,321  22.3% 
  Military ZIP Codes             517   1.2% 
  Unique/Business ZIP Codes    2,128   5.1% 
Total Multi County ZIP Codes   8,460  20.3% 
Total Unique City Names       29,697 100% 
Total Unique City Alias Names 59,939 100% 
Avg Population Per ZIP Code    7,486 100%

They also have a list of Top 10s by zip code - the top 10 ZIP codes by population have over 100,000 people each.

Top 10 ZIP Codes by 2010 Census Population  
1 60629  CHICAGO IL       113,916 
2 79936  EL PASO TX       111,086 
3 11368  CORONA NY        109,931 
4 00926  SAN JUAN PR      108,862 
5 90650  NORWALK CA       105,549 
6 90011  LOS ANGELES CA   103,892 
7 91331  PACOIMA CA       103,689 
8 11226  BROOKLYN NY      101,572 
9 90201  BELL GARDENS CA  101,279 
10 11373 ELMHURST NY      100,820
 
Top 10 ZIP Codes by Jun, 2015 Population Estimate 
1 79936 EL PASO TX        117,288 
2 77449 KATY TX           111,547 
3 90011 LOS ANGELES CA    108,633 
4 60629 CHICAGO IL        107,335 
5 77084 HOUSTON TX        106,192 
6 90650 NORWALK CA        104,539 
7 78521 BROWNSVILLE TX    102,605 
8 77494 KATY TX           102,147 
9 90201 BELL GARDENS CA   101,628 
10 92335 FONTANA CA       100,554

(Only 5 of the 2010 top 10 made it into the 2015 to 10)

You can get a file containing the ZIP code popuation by ZIP code here: http://blog.splitwise.com/2013/09/18/the-2010-us-census-population-by-zip-code-totally-free/

It says that there are about 2,000 zip codes with a popuation of less than 100.

Trouwe Ier

paulbok wrote: »

Putting on my tinfoil hat, I wonder is it being delayed to have maximum impact for next springs/years general election.

Well now, that's very possible but if the wind is blowing the other way with the PR gurus advising of potentially bad press, then they could wait until the closing credits of the Nine O'Clock news on Friday 31st July.

In the eighties, that particular weekend (and in some cases, the following fortnight) was notorious for the absence of any government spokespeople to answer awkward questions, though back then, today's newspaper would wrap tomorrow's chips and there were no electronic fora. The only P.R. threat came from Magill or Today Tonight (if it wasn't off for the summer).

I get the feeling that there is some sort of paralysis at this stage. The launch of a national post code system is a big event but just compare the deafening silence with the advance publicity for the opening of new motorways, LUAS lines, Good Friday Agreement, the DART etc.).

It may also be the case that they are waiting for the Bill to become an Act and signed into law before they open the floodgates.

Trouwe Ier

paulbok wrote: »

Putting on my tinfoil hat, I wonder is it being delayed to have maximum impact for next springs/years general election.

Well now, that's very possible but if the wind is blowing the other way with the PR gurus advising of potentially bad press, then they could wait until the closing credits of the Nine O'Clock news on Friday 31st July.

In the eighties, the mid-Summer holiday weekend (and in some cases, the following fortnight) was notorious for the absence of any government spokespeople to answer awkward questions, though back then, today's newspaper would wrap tomorrow's chips and there were no electronic fora. The only P.R. threat came from Magill or Today Tonight (if it wasn't off for the summer).

I get the feeling that there is some sort of paralysis at this stage. The launch of a national post code system is a big event but just compare the deafening silence with the advance publicity for the opening of new motorways, LUAS lines, Good Friday Agreement, the DART etc.).

It may also be the case that they are waiting for the Bill to become an Act and signed into law before they open the floodgates.

ukoda

http://jrnl.ie/2143603

Probably off topic but I think it's brilliant, fair play to An Post


I guess maybe it also answers the question of An Post will deliver mail with just an eircode, seems likely if they are willing to solve a jigsaw and crossword just to deliver a letter!!

Bayberry

Bayberry wrote: »

There's a brief shot of a Tablet standing on a desk with the Late Late Facebook page on it, and the box with an Eircode flyer covering the bottom 2/3rds. The Flyer has the Eircode logo, with the slogan "Find life easier" just below it, and some text below. It's a bit blurry, but it looks like:

You'll find life easier with Eircode -
the new postcode system launching in Ireland in Summer (2015?)

To find ot more about Eircode, visit www.eircode.ie

The tablet covers the right hand side of the box, so I'm guessing that it actually says Summer 2015 - it looks like it's summer, and the lines are centered, suggesting that the line continues behind the tablet, but I can't tell for sure.

I wasn't able to attach the screenshot when I posted this, but here it is if anyone is interested.

ukoda

Trouwe Ier wrote: »

Well now, that's very possible but if the wind is blowing the other way with the PR gurus advising of potentially bad press, then they could wait until the closing credits of the Nine O'Clock news on Friday 31st July.

In the eighties, the mid-Summer holiday weekend (and in some cases, the following fortnight) was notorious for the absence of any government spokespeople to answer awkward questions, though back then, today's newspaper would wrap tomorrow's chips and there were no electronic fora. The only P.R. threat came from Magill or Today Tonight (if it wasn't off for the summer).

I get the feeling that there is some sort of paralysis at this stage. The launch of a national post code system is a big event but just compare the deafening silence with the advance publicity for the opening of new motorways, LUAS lines, Good Friday Agreement, the DART etc.).

It may also be the case that they are waiting for the Bill to become an Act and signed into law before they open the floodgates.

I'd say the lack "hype" Is prob due to the fact that the public don't have to do anything and each home will actually get a letter, which is different to any other launch, I.e. With a new road you've to drive somewhere new, with saorview you'd to get a box or TV, with Luas they wanted you to get on it etc. with eircode it's a bit different


On saying that, I really would have expected to hear more about it by now than what's been in the media

TheBustedFlush

ukoda wrote: »

http://jrnl.ie/2143603

Probably off topic but I think it's brilliant, fair play to An Post


I guess maybe it also answers the question of An Post will deliver mail with just an eircode, seems likely if they are willing to solve a jigsaw and crossword just to deliver a letter!!

That is very good.

Top credits to the postal company.

I like the crossword one and the comment "a worthy foe"

Bayberry

TheBustedFlush wrote: »

I like the crossword one and the comment "a worthy foe"

I like the one with the pictogram that was returned to him undelivered, even though he hadn't put his return address on or in the envelope

MBSnr

https://twitter.com/autoaddress/status/606739459577683968

SpaceTime

Sounds like they're on track (sort of ) then...

yuloni

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TheBustedFlush

yuloni wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

It doesn't clearly. Any competing grid-based code that might have wanted to use the postal town boundaries to re-design its code is kinda neutered with boundaries constantly changing over time. Not sure if it'll be helpful to FTAI's plans to map them for free either. But sure maybe people can just use rough ones - how exact do they have to be all the time?

ukoda

yuloni wrote: »

For an organisation working on a State contract, their behaviour on Twitter is embarrassing


I did see this though

No official polygons for the routing keys areas... how does that work?

https://twitter.com/autoaddress/status/606479946211557376

Teehee. That's pretty good social media to be honest

yuloni

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yuloni

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ukoda

yuloni wrote: »

If you're 12 years old, yes it's good social media

When you're spending €28,000,000 of taxpayers money though, no... it's embarrassing and insulting

So you've a background in social media have you? To base that opinion on? Because I thought you were IT.

Some of the biggest companies in the world would use that kind of social media reply.

Trouwe Ier

Are the Dublin postal areas not polygons?

What is an "official polygon"?

"The Routing Key will be used to help sort mail. However, it is not directly linked to counties, towns or geographical features" According to Wikipedia, "Routing is the process of selecting best paths in a network".

I wonder is there something in the word "routing". No pun intended but do we need to think outside the polygon?.

I give up as my head can't get around this.

Bayberry

Does anyone know if there has been a commitment that once a property has been assigned an eircode, that's it, it will never change? If An Post make changes to their procedures, will people near the edge of a routing zone find themselves being served from a new sorting office, and end up with a new eircode?

I know that it doesn't happen very often, but both US ZIP codes and UK Postal Codes are changed from time. Given that eircodes are designed to be useless without a database lookup anyway, there isn't any practical reason why they should ever need to change (or even have a routing code in the first place, especially if they're going to be precious about the polygons), but I wondered if that issues has been dealt with anywhere?

antoinolachtnai

There is no commitment to that effect. It is very unclear. It might well be that the end part of the code will stay the same, but that the first part will change. But no one really knows.

If the routing key is linked to An Post delivery areas, it would make sense that it would change as An Post delivery areas change.

a65b2cd

Bayberry wrote: »

Does anyone know if there has been a commitment that once a property has been assigned an eircode, that's it, it will never change?

Patricia Cronin at the Oireachtas in November 2014:

We have adopted a non-sequential system to make sure that when a person gets a code, that code stays with that property. When a person gets a code on a property, he or she will always have that code

antoinolachtnai

My understanding was that properties were being assigned codes. It turns out that this is not correct and that in fact, it is occupants who are being assigned the codes. That is very interesting.

How is this supposed to work, if An Post changes its delivery areas?

Imagine there are two neighbouring but not touching housing estates on the one road, and they both have the same routing code. A third estate is built in between them. Is it possible that the new estate will be assigned a different routing code?

ukoda

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

My understanding was that properties were being assigned codes. It turns out that this is not correct and that in fact, it is occupants who are being assigned the codes. That is very interesting.

Huh? That's not true?? It's the property

I think you've misread that, the occupant will be the one 'given' the code to use, but the code is 'assigned' to the property. She's not saying the code goes with the occupant if they leave.

And it's going to be unlikely that a new estate between 2 existing ones would have a different route

yuloni

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