National Postcodes to be introduced

Trouwe Ier

The Order for the Second Stage and Second Stage are due to be heard on Wednesday morning, 10th June and "resumed if not previously concluded" on Thursday morning.

Bayberry

Trouwe Ier wrote: »

A Bill becomes law on the day it is signed by the President and, unless the contrary intention appears, comes into operation on that day (Art. 25.4.1). A Bill may, for example, contain provision for its commencement (in whole or in part) by way of Ministerial order.

Not in any way relevant to the debate at hand, but this whole Ministerial Order bollocks is typical of the way that the Constitution is paid lip service to. (The Amendment in 1979 to allow the Seanad vote to be extended to all 3rd level graduates is just one of the more egregious examples, but they are many and varied. The Belfast Agreement gave them a god-sent opportunity to do away with the "Constitutional Imperative", but that's anther story entirely)

Trouwe Ier

This afternoon's twitter traffic on the subject is somewhat energetic to say the least.....however, there was a tweet from loc8code at 15.15 hours as follows:

"@autoaddress @antoin from new info here is #eircode Blessington PTown A05 RKey area. large & of little geographic use"

Underneath there is a google map overlaid with a polygon.

However, I can't seem to find the source of this map yet or any other maps.

yuloni

This post has been deleted.

plodder

Bayberry wrote: »

They probably don't need it for 99% of mail, but An Post also makes an effort to deliver badly addressed mail, and a record of what address a particular name is associated with would be helpful in that regard, so I'd be surprised if the OCR process doesn't have some capacity for recognizing names as well as addresses.

Maybe I'm just imposing 2015-Big Data biases on a system that was designed back when te technology didn't necessarily make such choices as straightforward as they are now.

I think you're probably right that they do have it.

plodder

yuloni wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

That's an interesting website. You can see there are a few levels of hierarchy there, just as you'd expect from a useful commercial service. Also, it would be very surprising if the routing keys were something different from these delivery zones. Though there are huge disparities in size between some of them. Some of the smaller ones may end up being combined.

Trouwe Ier

Where did he get the "A05" ?

yuloni

This post has been deleted.

plodder

yuloni wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

That's what I meant. Obviously, it's not designed to facilitate a code, but you can select individual zones or larger groups of them, which is something you would also be able to do with a hierarchical postcode. Eg the Dublin post zones are subdivided, eg D3 into D3.1 D3.2 etc. It's interesting as well that it provides a different view based on counties.

Also, some of the Dublin city centre ones are bizarre, with non contiguous areas and enclaves galore. There's obviously a lot of history behind these.

larchill

Seems this thing is just getting pushed further & further out with all that legislative stuff to be got through. It'll be the Autumn/Xmas before we see eircodes! If Enda goes to the country we may never see it.

ukoda

larchill wrote: »

Seems this thing is just getting pushed further & further out with all that legislative stuff to be got through. It'll be the Autumn/Xmas before we see eircodes! If Enda goes to the country we may never see it.

Has it actually been pushed out do we know? That UTV article said that eircodes would be issued this month, meaning it was just the 1 delay since they announced "spring 2015" as opposed to another delay?

larchill

Only just saw the UTV piece. Maybe it will happen after all. Data protection issue doesn't appear too major.

larchill

Only just saw the UTV piece. Maybe it will happen after all. Data protection issue doesn't appear too major.

larchill

xxx

recedite

ukoda wrote: »

Has it actually been pushed out do we know? That UTV article said that eircodes would be issued this month, meaning it was just the 1 delay since they announced "spring 2015" as opposed to another delay?

"Just the one little delay"
Ahem... go back to the very first post in this thread, where you will find;

In 2005, the then Minister for Communications, Noel Dempsey, promised a new system by 2008

Every single delay since then has been "the only one" since the last one.

Seriously, does anyone think the Dail, and then the Seanad, and then the President are all going to be recalled in turn from their summer holliers just to facilitate this?
I would guess it will be some time between October to December before the legislation is finally passed and the eircodes are "good to go".

Capita's own deadlines as put out by the eircode PR people are meaningless now, because this latest legislative delay is out of their hands.

ukoda

recedite wrote: »

"Just the one little delay"
Ahem... go back to the very first post in this thread, where you will find;Every single delay since then has been "the only one" since the last one.

Seriously, does anyone think the Dail, and then the Seanad, and then the President are all going to be recalled in turn from their summer holliers just to facilitate this?
I would guess it will be some time between October to December before the legislation is finally passed and the eircodes are "good to go".

Capita's own deadlines as put out by the eircode PR people are meaningless now, because this latest legislative delay is out of their hands.

I meant from the announcement of 'eircode' not from the start of the postcode talks 10 years ago.

Trouwe Ier

I've just done a brief internet search and it appear that there's a lot of activity in the rural parts of the north-western counties with Eircode "Community Outreach Representatives" faithfully repeating the party line to standards not seen since East Germany was in its prime. The same message about "launch in July" is appearing in electronic versions of Church newsletters.


Limerick Chamber of Commerce is also holding a breakfast briefing meeting on 25th June.


But what constitutes a "launch"? The mailing out to households or the clearance for organisations with databases to start using the codes?


The bill is relatively short and from what I've seen, parliamentary concern appears to have focused on the randomness of unique identifiers and not the data protection issues as such.


There certainly doesn't appear to be much public disquiet anyway: I've seen no posters calling for boycotts or advertising public meetings to organise mass resistance.....yet!


I must check when the later stages are due to be debated. Reading through some of the Dáil transcripts of comments at the start of the debates on the first stage, I was depressed by the amount of time wasted on silly bugger parochial utterances by some of the usual suspects, presumably for the benefit of local papers.


It's possible that we could be a lot wiser in a week or two!

Trouwe Ier

autoaddress Jun 08, 11:54pm via Twitter Web Client
@antoin At least two differences in Eircode for similar (or same) address. This is a complex rule based algorithm, includes spatial rules
Show Conversation
autoaddress retweeted
whatsondonegal Jun 08, 9:01pm via Buffer
New Post Codes RT @ActiveDonegal
Eircode is the new postcode system for Ireland launching this Summer 2015

1 retweet
whatsondonegal Jun 08, 9:01pm via Buffer
New Post Codes RT @ActiveDonegal
Eircode is the new postcode system for Ireland launching this Summer 2015

1 retweet
Gamma_irl retweeted
ActiveDonegal Jun 08, 11:08am via Facebook
New Post Codes
Eircode is the new postcode system for Ireland that will be launched this Summer. Please share fb.me/uaGFabSt
2 retweets
DrKeithRedmond Jun 08, 3:38pm via Twitter for iPhone
An Post clearly do not need #Eircode.

Heroic pride in the job.
BBC News NI @BBCNewsNI
Puzzling post: Customer tests Irish postal service to see how far they will go to deliver mail http://t.co/5Ob3tc4DOn http://t.co/ROnlqNKk0H

1 favorite
autoaddress retweeted
ActiveDonegal Jun 08, 11:08am via Facebook
New Post Codes
Eircode is the new postcode system for Ireland that will be launched this Summer. Please share fb.me/uaGFabSt
2 retweets
ActiveDonegal Jun 08, 11:08am via Facebook
New Post Codes
Eircode is the new postcode system for Ireland that will be launched this Summer. Please share fb.me/uaGFabSt
2 retweets
PulpRecycling Jun 08, 10:00am via Buffer
Interesting article!!Eircode won't invade privacy,says Data Protection Commissioner buff.ly/1EZF8cT #Irishbiz#sme#dataprotection

larchill

Only saw the UTV piece now! Seems like it might be more immeninent so? The data protection issue doesn't appear too major. Still, strange, nothing in the media otherwise, all very hush hush. No preliminaries, such as "National postcode system to go live in weeks ... etc", nothing! Even on eircode.ie, the silence is deafening.

ukoda

larchill wrote: »

Only saw the UTV piece now! Seems like it might be more immeninent so? The data protection issue doesn't appear too major. Still, strange, nothing in the media otherwise, all very hush hush. No preliminaries, such as "National postcode system to go live in weeks ... etc", nothing! Even on eircode.ie, the silence is deafening.

Well it's been on that TV3 minting show, the late late on RTE and now UTV so it has been on all major national broadcasters, although I'd agree it's not really much and things seem very low key for the launch.

Sam Russell

ukoda wrote: »

Well it's been on that TV3 minting show, the late late on RTE and now UTV so it has been on all major national broadcasters, although I'd agree it's not really much and things seem very low key for the launch.

I would not count TV3 and UTV as major national broadcasters, and all the RTE activity was a paid for give away on the last show of the year that lasted 10 seconds.

If it was to be launched it would get wall to wall coverage on radio and TV. This has not happened yet.

ukoda

Sam Russell wrote: »

I would not count TV3 and UTV as major national broadcasters, and all the RTE activity was a paid for give away on the last show of the year that lasted 10 seconds.

If it was to be launched it would get wall to wall coverage on radio and TV. This has not happened yet.

TV3 reaches over 2 million people a week, so it's not insignificant either.

But anyway, they won't cover the launch until there actually is a launch, so we won't get the news stories until there's a press release from eircode to prompt it

Sam Russell

ukoda wrote: »

TV3 reaches over 2 million people a week, so it's not insignificant either.

I think the figure is more like 100,000 for TV3. Very few of their programmes reach more than that.

Compare that with Morning Ireland or Sean O'Rourke's programme or Drive Time. And that is just RTE radio. NewsTalk, local radio all have listenership figures that beat TV3

ukoda

Sam Russell wrote: »

I think the figure is more like 100,000 for TV3. Very few of their programmes reach more than that.

Compare that with Morning Ireland or Sean O'Rourke's programme or Drive Time. And that is just RTE radio. NewsTalk, local radio all have listenership figures that beat TV3

It reaches 2.8 million viewers per week, it's a major national broadcaster, Which is what I called it before.

I'm not going to debate that with you anymore, my point is, eircode has had some promotion on various channels (either paid for or not) and we won't see the news stories until there's something more to report on...I.e. The launch, the news channels won't pick up on this as a story until there's a press release to say it's launched

Sam Russell

Sam Russell wrote: »

I would not count TV3 and UTV as major national broadcasters, and all the RTE activity was a paid for give away on the last show of the year that lasted 10 seconds.

If it was to be launched it would get wall to wall coverage on radio and TV. This has not happened yet.

At the end of the day, it's only a postcode, no real need to publicize until after the codes have been issued and An Post start (& others) using it!

Publicizing it now is a bit like publicizing a new route via a road that isn't yet open.

SpaceTime

I'm assuming they must be sending out press releases then.

This will be a "sexy" subject for about a week then everyone will think it's just about the most boring thing on earth again unless it somehow changes the value of their house

ukoda

SpaceTime wrote: »

I'm assuming they must be sending out press releases then.

This will be a "sexy" subject for about a week then everyone will think it's just about the most boring thing on earth again unless it somehow changes the value of their house

I think it'll be a slow burn, it'll slowly start making its way into day to day life

Trouwe Ier

Yes it may well be a silent introduction and it may well be very soon. At this stage, the lack of any new information on their website is disappointing. I wonder will the IBRC business in the Dáil delay the bill?

Twitter traffic since mid-morning yesterday pasted below.

There's obviously a bit of discontent out there.

loc8code 7:08am via Twitter for Android
@PA_Consulting you've had the contract for 14 months & still unable to publicly declare #eircode fit-for-purpose to @AlexWhiteTD WHY?
loc8code retweeted
GetLostEircodes Jun 09, 1:29pm via Twitter Web Client
@fotoole Now that DOB & IBRC are being piloted off the radar you need to pay attention to the corrupt incompetent mess that is #EIRCODE
1 retweet
newsfromftai retweeted
GetLostEircodes Jun 09, 10:43am via Twitter Web Client
Ministers, civil servants and semi-state employees have all lied to, or misled the Oireachtas on #Eircode here's some

2 retweets 1 favorite
Gamma_irl retweeted
autoaddress Jun 08, 11:54pm via Twitter Web Client
@antoin At least two differences in Eircode for similar (or same) address. This is a complex rule based algorithm, includes spatial rules
1 retweet
Gamma_irl retweeted
visit_donegal Jun 09, 9:11am via TweetDeck
New Post Codes RT @ActiveDonegal
Eircode is the new postcode system for Ireland launching this Summer 2015

4 retweets 1 favorite
Gamma_irl retweeted
whatsondonegal Jun 08, 9:01pm via Buffer
New Post Codes RT @ActiveDonegal
Eircode is the new postcode system for Ireland launching this Summer 2015

2 retweets
loc8code Jun 09, 2:14pm via Twitter Web Client
@whatsondonegal @ActiveDonegal just claims of @AlexWhiteTD whose own consultants have failed to publicly declare #Eircode fit-for-purpose!
Show Conversation
GetLostEircodes Jun 09, 1:37pm via Twitter Web Client
@whatsondonegal @ActiveDonegal For a county notorious for road traffic accidents #eircode will be ZERO use for RTAs unless crash into house
Show Conversation
GetLostEircodes Jun 09, 1:29pm via Twitter Web Client
@fotoole Now that DOB & IBRC are being piloted off the radar you need to pay attention to the corrupt incompetent mess that is #EIRCODE
1 retweet
Pajosmashup retweeted
GetLostEircodes Jun 09, 10:43am via Twitter Web Client
Ministers, civil servants and semi-state employees have all lied to, or misled the Oireachtas on #Eircode here's some

2 retweets 1 favorite
GetLostEircodes Jun 09, 10:43am via Twitter Web Client
Ministers, civil servants and semi-state employees have all lied to, or misled the Oireachtas on #Eircode here's some

2 retweets 1 favorite

dr.fuzzenstein

Quick straw poll round the office. Nobody in here has ever heard of Eircode.
Reading those tweets, I can understand why this is being kept silent, because of the large number of cranks, crackpots and malcontents that are just looking for an excuse to get riled up and witter on about "De Gubbermint!"

moyners

Trouwe Ier wrote: »

Yes it may well be a silent introduction and it may well be very soon. At this stage, the lack of any new information on their website is disappointing. I wonder will the IBRC business in the Dáil delay the bill?

Twitter traffic since mid-morning yesterday pasted below.

There's obviously a bit of discontent out there.

loc8code 7:08am via Twitter for Android
@PA_Consulting you've had the contract for 14 months & still unable to publicly declare #eircode fit-for-purpose to @AlexWhiteTD WHY?
loc8code retweeted
GetLostEircodes Jun 09, 1:29pm via Twitter Web Client
@fotoole Now that DOB & IBRC are being piloted off the radar you need to pay attention to the corrupt incompetent mess that is #EIRCODE
1 retweet
newsfromftai retweeted
GetLostEircodes Jun 09, 10:43am via Twitter Web Client
Ministers, civil servants and semi-state employees have all lied to, or misled the Oireachtas on #Eircode here's some

2 retweets 1 favorite
Gamma_irl retweeted
autoaddress Jun 08, 11:54pm via Twitter Web Client
@antoin At least two differences in Eircode for similar (or same) address. This is a complex rule based algorithm, includes spatial rules
1 retweet
Gamma_irl retweeted
visit_donegal Jun 09, 9:11am via TweetDeck
New Post Codes RT @ActiveDonegal
Eircode is the new postcode system for Ireland launching this Summer 2015

4 retweets 1 favorite
Gamma_irl retweeted
whatsondonegal Jun 08, 9:01pm via Buffer
New Post Codes RT @ActiveDonegal
Eircode is the new postcode system for Ireland launching this Summer 2015

2 retweets
loc8code Jun 09, 2:14pm via Twitter Web Client
@whatsondonegal @ActiveDonegal just claims of @AlexWhiteTD whose own consultants have failed to publicly declare #Eircode fit-for-purpose!
Show Conversation
GetLostEircodes Jun 09, 1:37pm via Twitter Web Client
@whatsondonegal @ActiveDonegal For a county notorious for road traffic accidents #eircode will be ZERO use for RTAs unless crash into house
Show Conversation
GetLostEircodes Jun 09, 1:29pm via Twitter Web Client
@fotoole Now that DOB & IBRC are being piloted off the radar you need to pay attention to the corrupt incompetent mess that is #EIRCODE
1 retweet
Pajosmashup retweeted
GetLostEircodes Jun 09, 10:43am via Twitter Web Client
Ministers, civil servants and semi-state employees have all lied to, or misled the Oireachtas on #Eircode here's some

2 retweets 1 favorite
GetLostEircodes Jun 09, 10:43am via Twitter Web Client
Ministers, civil servants and semi-state employees have all lied to, or misled the Oireachtas on #Eircode here's some

2 retweets 1 favorite

I don't really see how listing tweets from obviously biased twitter accounts (GetLostEircodes hardly sounds neutral/Loc8Codes seems to be representing or at least favouring a competitor) adds weight to one side of the argument or the other. (with respect)