National Postcodes to be introduced

MBSnr

moyners wrote: »

I don't really see how listing tweets from obviously biased twitter accounts (GetLostEircodes hardly sounds neutral/Loc8Codes seems to be representing or at least favouring a competitor) adds weight to one side of the argument or the other. (with respect)

Actually the one thing I dislike about the GetLostEircodes is them saying it will cost lives. Have they been reading the Daily Mail for the headline...?

Get Lost Eircodes
@GetLostEircodes
Help us save the country from Eircodes a really bad postcode that is not fit for purpose and will cost lives.

No!!
Eircode can't pinpoint a road traffic accident (as we all know and does not need to be debated again and again). So what changes when Eircode comes in? They are implying it will cost more lives.

But how does it increase/cost more lives over the current situation of having no Eircode? Total BS in my opinion.

ukoda

MBSnr wrote: »

Actually the one thing I dislike about the GetLostEircodes is them saying it will cost lives. Have they been reading the Daily Mail for the headline...?

Get Lost Eircodes
@GetLostEircodes
Help us save the country from Eircodes a really bad postcode that is not fit for purpose and will cost lives.

No!!
Eircode can't pinpoint a road traffic accident (as we all know and does not need to be debated again and again). So what changes when Eircode comes in? They are implying it will cost more lives.

But how does it increase/cost more lives over the current situation of having no Eircode? Total BS in my opinion.

And as I've said here before, the future of pinpointing road traffic and other outdoor accidents is the E112 solution where the user has to do nothing more than call emergency services and the phone replays their location automatically. Not generating a postcode for the accident and then calling it back to the dispatcher. Totally unnecessary with the technology we already have

SpaceTime

They've got a 112 emergency smartphone app in Iceland that does just that.

If you need to call it can send your GPS location instantly by SMS or mobile data (still lots of areas you might be that might only have SMS coverage)

It can also allow you to log into the 112 services with your location if you're just travelling in remote locations. So you can just register the fact that you're there. This is really important for hikers, walkers and because they've a vast wilderness and only 350,000 people or so.

The AA in ireland does this already too for road side rescue. It's nuts that this isn't done for 112 (999)

Smart phone penetration levels in Ireland are amongst the highest on the planet too. It's not like we don't have the technology. I find these services are always coming up with reasons why they can't do something rather than using what's already out there!!

Why can I call a taxi by GPS smart phone app and not an ambulance or a fire truck ?!

You could potentially even send images of an accident or a location or a suspect instantly via an app like that too!

Chris M

Trouwe Ier wrote: »

Yes it may well be a silent introduction and it may well be very soon. At this stage, the lack of any new information on their website is disappointing. I wonder will the IBRC business in the Dáil delay the bill?

Twitter traffic since mid-morning yesterday pasted below.

There's obviously a bit of discontent out there.

loc8code 7:08am via Twitter for Android
@PA_Consulting you've had the contract for 14 months & still unable to publicly declare #eircode fit-for-purpose to @AlexWhiteTD WHY?
loc8code retweeted
GetLostEircodes Jun 09, 1:29pm via Twitter Web Client
@fotoole Now that DOB & IBRC are being piloted off the radar you need to pay attention to the corrupt incompetent mess that is #EIRCODE
1 retweet
newsfromftai retweeted
GetLostEircodes Jun 09, 10:43am via Twitter Web Client
Ministers, civil servants and semi-state employees have all lied to, or misled the Oireachtas on #Eircode here's some

2 retweets 1 favorite
Gamma_irl retweeted
autoaddress Jun 08, 11:54pm via Twitter Web Client
@antoin At least two differences in Eircode for similar (or same) address. This is a complex rule based algorithm, includes spatial rules
1 retweet
Gamma_irl retweeted
visit_donegal Jun 09, 9:11am via TweetDeck
New Post Codes RT @ActiveDonegal
Eircode is the new postcode system for Ireland launching this Summer 2015

4 retweets 1 favorite
Gamma_irl retweeted
whatsondonegal Jun 08, 9:01pm via Buffer
New Post Codes RT @ActiveDonegal
Eircode is the new postcode system for Ireland launching this Summer 2015

2 retweets
loc8code Jun 09, 2:14pm via Twitter Web Client
@whatsondonegal @ActiveDonegal just claims of @AlexWhiteTD whose own consultants have failed to publicly declare #Eircode fit-for-purpose!
Show Conversation
GetLostEircodes Jun 09, 1:37pm via Twitter Web Client
@whatsondonegal @ActiveDonegal For a county notorious for road traffic accidents #eircode will be ZERO use for RTAs unless crash into house
Show Conversation
GetLostEircodes Jun 09, 1:29pm via Twitter Web Client
@fotoole Now that DOB & IBRC are being piloted off the radar you need to pay attention to the corrupt incompetent mess that is #EIRCODE
1 retweet
Pajosmashup retweeted
GetLostEircodes Jun 09, 10:43am via Twitter Web Client
Ministers, civil servants and semi-state employees have all lied to, or misled the Oireachtas on #Eircode here's some

2 retweets 1 favorite
GetLostEircodes Jun 09, 10:43am via Twitter Web Client
Ministers, civil servants and semi-state employees have all lied to, or misled the Oireachtas on #Eircode here's some

2 retweets 1 favorite

Gary Delaney is fast becoming George Galloway - meaow.

Trouwe Ier

Chris M wrote: »

Gary Delaney is fast becoming George Galloway - meaow.

George got the electoral boot five weeks ago too.....but he had a popular mandate.

I'll be interested to see what can be gleaned from the newly relaunchef www.autoaddress.ie website from Saturday.

Trouwe Ier

Last night's twitter traffic was similar but there's another entrant onto the scene!

http://twitter.com/GalwayPostcode

MBSnr

Trouwe Ier wrote: »

Last night's twitter traffic was similar but there's another entrant onto the scene!

http://twitter.com/GalwayPostcode

Some one has done a lot of work on it since Jan 2014 seemingly (1st post on twitter).
http://www.galwaypostcode.com/wp-content/uploads/Galway-PostCode-Map-042015.pdf

But it's the 1st time I've ever heard about it and I work in Galway.... Is it for real...?

my3cents

MBSnr wrote: »

Some one has done a lot of work on it since Jan 2014 seemingly (1st post on twitter).
http://www.galwaypostcode.com/wp-content/uploads/Galway-PostCode-Map-042015.pdf

But it's the 1st time I've ever heard about it and I work in Galway.... Is it for real...?

Its not eircode so why does it matter?

MBSnr

my3cents wrote: »

Its not eircode so why does it matter?

I wanted to double check it was serious! Just wondering why did they bother, unless it was for some sort of self interest project that took their fancy. Just otherwise seems pointless.

larchill

Indeed, why would they bother!

irishgeo

MBSnr wrote: »

Some one has done a lot of work on it since Jan 2014 seemingly (1st post on twitter).
http://www.galwaypostcode.com/wp-content/uploads/Galway-PostCode-Map-042015.pdf

But it's the 1st time I've ever heard about it and I work in Galway.... Is it for real...?

what a waste of them An post are not going to use it anyway.

Trouwe Ier

This afternoon's tweets.

Note what GAMMA has said about a launch date.

If this is only the second stage, it'll hardly pass today (???)
autoaddress 5:24pm via Twitter Web Client
Always nice to get a mention. @AlexWhiteTD discussing the Postal Bill to enable #Eircode project today in the Dail.

GetLostEircodes 4:40pm via Twitter Web Client
#AlexWhiteTD is looking decidedly shifty on Oireachtas TV as his dodgy "Ban the Eircode Competition" bill gets read in the Dail today.
RomComIrl 4:32pm via Facebook
În 2015 noul sistem de identificare prin intermediul codurilor poștale va fi implementat în Irlanda. Pentru... fb.me/7iCAUz0vM
autoaddress retweeted
Gamma_irl 3:43pm via Twitter Web Client
Interesting debate about #eircode taking place in the Daíl now. cc @autoaddress Hope to see a launch day confirmed once the Bill is passed.
1 retweet 1 favorite
Gamma_irl 3:43pm via Twitter Web Client
Interesting debate about #eircode taking place in the Daíl now. cc @autoaddress Hope to see a launch day confirmed once the Bill is passed.
1 retweet 1 favorite

ukoda

So did the bill pass yet? Few news articles seem to imply it did?

recedite

Are we there yet...Are we there yet...Are we there yet...Are we there yet...

No, not for another few months. Plenty more stages of Dail and Seanad to get through.

The Cush

ukoda wrote: »

So did the bill pass yet? Few news articles seem to imply it did?

Did the Dáil second stage conclude today or does it continue into tomorrow?

See the various stages here - http://www.oireachtas.ie/viewdoc.asp?fn=/documents/bills28/bills/2015/4615/document1.htm

For such a small bill it should move through both houses relatively quickly, all done and dusted before the summer holidays.

ukoda

The Cush wrote: »

Did the Dáil second stage conclude today or does it continue into tomorrow?

See the various stages here - http://www.oireachtas.ie/viewdoc.asp?fn=/documents/bills28/bills/2015/4615/document1.htm

For such a small bill it should move through both houses relatively quickly, all done and dusted before the summer holidays.

Yeah I meant did it pass today, in fairness they could push this along pretty quickly, they all had a bit of a rant but there wasn't anything substantial for consideration to change, so committee stage and final debate should be straight forward enough, the Seanad is only rubber stamping then really

TheBustedFlush

ukoda wrote: »

Yeah I meant did it pass today, in fairness they could push this along pretty quickly, they all had a bit of a rant but there wasn't anything substantial for consideration to change, so committee stage and final debate should be straight forward enough, the Seanad is only rubber stamping then really

So what exactly did get said today then?

"They all had a bit of a rant" is somewhat dismissive and ignorant of any genuine concerns that might be held by people or is that a standard response of anyone who wants to see legislation that benefits them pass through the Dail quickly with the least scrutiny possible?

What's interesting is that the Department - and the government by default it would seem - never seemed to consider that the creation of a unique identifier postcode system would have any implications for data privacy, so much so, they didn't even to see it as a possible requirement or criteria to consider for the code design when seeking submissions. Bidders were simply and deliberately told to submit a code design that would uniquely identify each and every address on its own without the need for any added information, and without possible protections of that address identity given how it might be subsequently used by other parties.

And with belated hindsight, they're now hoping to rush through the necessary legislation to cover off potential abuse and encounter as few objections as possible.

It's sloppy, unprofessional, and not worthy of a properly functioning Irish government department. A department that appears to be regularly subject to the preys and whims of erstwhile advisers and vested public sector interests rather than operating as a robust organisation run by a cadre of informed, diligent and conscientious public officials working on behalf of the state and all of the people.

Or maybe that's just another "bit of a rant"......

clewbays

The Cush wrote: »

Did the Dáil second stage conclude today or does it continue into tomorrow?

It was passed by 56 votes to 25.

antoinolachtnai

TheBustedFlush wrote: »

And with belated hindsight, they're now hoping to rush through the necessary legislation to cover off potential abuse and encounter as few objections as possible.

The legislation doesn't really cover off any potential abuse though.

The purpose of the legislation seems to be to create an exception to data protection law to stop people from objecting to the process by which An Post is planning to send out ('disseminate' in the eircode jargon) the postcodes to individual homes.

There is no chance that the legislation will give any protection whatsoever. There are no penalties and there are no investigative powers.

larchill

Ah so we're green to go so . Only this very morning I'd the occasion to call VAX in the UK re my vacuum cleaner to be asked ... guess what ... for a Postcode! Had to say I was calling from ROI where's there's no postcodes! Will this be the last time this'll ever happen :rolleyes:

Sheldons Brain

larchill wrote: »

Ah so we're green to go so . Only this very morning I'd the occasion to call VAX in the UK re my vacuum cleaner to be asked ... guess what ... for a Postcode! Had to say I was calling from ROI where's there's no postcodes! Will this be the last time this'll ever happen :rolleyes:

It won't matter, when you provide an Eircode it won't fit the UK template and they'll still hassle you. If they are so ignorant as to ask an Irish addressee for a postcode then they are obviously not organised to cater for difference.

MBSnr

Sheldons Brain wrote: »

It won't matter, when you provide an Eircode it won't fit the UK template and they'll still hassle you. If they are so ignorant as to ask an Irish addressee for a postcode then they are obviously not organised to cater for difference.

I'm not sure it's ignorance.... The standard 1st question to anyone tends to be "What is your postcode?" Of course having an Eircode to tell them isn't going to help unless they incorporate it into their systems. But being as most of the people phoning them will be from the UK, I can't see many companies, like VAX, bothering.

Actually I can see the likes of Sky TV incorporating Eircodes in an attempt to get more cash and do away with 'multiple discounted' subs from one household in different names etc. Also Tesco's for deliveries etc - their address finder can be random...

ukoda

TheBustedFlush wrote: »

So what exactly did get said today then?

"They all had a bit of a rant" is somewhat dismissive and ignorant of any genuine concerns that might be held by people or is that a standard response of anyone who wants to see legislation that benefits them pass through the Dail quickly with the least scrutiny possible?

They ranted about the tender of the postcode which was off topic and not appropriate. One of them was also off on a tangent about Post Offices closing.

My point is, they didn't have genuine concerns about the bill that they were asked to comment / debate on. They used it as a soap box to air all the grievances.

You not knowing anything about what was said in the debates but feeling qualified to call my comments on it "ignorant" is a bit rich isn't it.

Trouwe Ier

larchill wrote: »

Ah so we're green to go so :

It would be nice to think so but see the bottom of this post.

A lot of Alex Whyte's speech could have been made at the first stage. He stated yesterday that "A comprehensive communications campaign has been developed for the introduction of Eircodes": but only for Rural Link groups, industry and business and not the public per-se.

He also said that "Immediately following the launch of Eircode every premises in Ireland will receive a letter containing the Eircode for that address. The letter will include information on the benefits of Eircode and how it can be used. The launch will also feature a national communications campaign involving television, radio, national and regional press."

Looking at some of the deputies' comments, it is clear that Capita are not very popular. However, if and I presume that, the tender process was sound then if the Government hadn't awarded the contract to them then there may have been a few expensive days out on the North Quays.

The comments about TDs being off-topic are depressing. The standard of parliamentarian in this country is mediocre at best. I'm beginning to think that Seán Barrett needed to be ruthless now.

It looks like the "Níl"s (na Níle?) were made up of Shinners and independents. Fair enough if they had made an informed judgement but if it was as a protest against post office closures, the award to Capita or just to play silly buggers then it's a poor reflection on them.

So the bill will now "be referred to the Select Sub-committee on Communications, Energy and Natural Resources pursuant to Standing Orders 82A(3)(a) and (6)(a) and 126(1) of the Standing Orders relative to Public Business" where presumably, lots of yesterday's comments, good, bad and indifferent will be repeated and recorded.....but maybe not for the last time.

As the minister stated, the codes will be posted out immediately after the launch, so I can't see us getting them for a few weeks yet, depending on the parliamentary timetable.

recedite

Trouwe Ier wrote: »

It looks like the "Níl"s (na Níle?) were made up of Shinners and independents. Fair enough if they had made an informed judgement but if it was as a protest against post office closures, the award to Capita or just to play silly buggers then it's a poor reflection on them.

I'd say it was an informed decision by them, following the cue of Pierce Doherty who seems to be more knowledgeable than the relevant govt. ministers on this subject. Here Doherty asked the pertinent question of Minister Rabbite re the tendering process, to which Rabbitte gives an inaccurate response, saying "no breaches of the procurement framework were found" by the European Commission.
Whereas in reality...

A letter sent to the Government by the commission, which has been seen by the Irish Independent, warned that Irish authorities should “avoid similar errors in future” and asked for measures to be put in place to avoid a repeat of the situation, but it did not impose any sanctions.

source
And the subject of the tender was not "off-topic" BTW. The Dail second stage discussion of a bill is always wide ranging and general in nature. The third and fourth stages are normally concerned with amendments. Only the fifth stage is specifically concerned with the final wording of the bill itself.

ukoda

recedite wrote: »

I'd say it was an informed decision by them, following the cue of Pierce Doherty who seems to be more knowledgeable than the relevant govt. ministers on this subject. Here Doherty asked the pertinent question of Minister Rabbite re the tendering process, to which Rabbitte gives an inaccurate response, saying "no breaches of the procurement framework were found" by the European Commission.
Whereas in reality...source
And the subject of the tender was not "off-topic" BTW. The Dail second stage discussion of a bill is always wide ranging and general in nature. The third and fourth stages are normally concerned with amendments. Only the fifth stage is specifically concerned with the final wording of the bill itself.

We've discussed this before and the minister is correct when he says that no breaches were made, the EU closed the case with no actions, but *asked* that the government look at its procedures to be more inclusive of small businesses for future procurement

The subject of the tender was very much off topic, debate is wide ranging yes, but relevant to the Bill, the tender process is nothing to do with the Bill.

recedite

BTW it was the same Pierce Doherty who brought down the FF govt. in 2010 by taking them to court over their refusal to hold by-elections, thereby keeping themselves in govt. without a democratic mandate.

And it was he who kept drawing attention to corrrupt Anglo Irish Bank and the bondholders afterwards.

Its the TDs on the govt. side that can't be bothered. All they do is follow the party line.

recedite

A breach is an error, and an error is a breach.

Sheldons Brain

Sheldons Brain wrote: »

It won't matter, when you provide an Eircode it won't fit the UK template and they'll still hassle you. If they are so ignorant as to ask an Irish addressee for a postcode then they are obviously not organised to cater for difference.

Foreign postcodes will just be a free text field as it won't validate in the post office database.

ukoda

recedite wrote: »

A breach is an error, and an error is a breach.

They imposed no sanctions and did not ask for the tender to be rerun,

no sanctions = no breach and no breach = no sanctions.