National Postcodes to be introduced

Sam Russell

Bayberry wrote: »

Wonderful - lets spend €25 million and get a multi-national foreign company to set up a random postcode that multi-nationals can afford to take advantage of, but that smaller indigenous Irish delivery companies can't afford.

Instead of a rational design that could have offered some advantage just by looking at it, without needing to pay a fee to access the database.

Fixed your post.

And by the way, let's make sure there is an adequate revenue stream - would not want the multi-national foreign company not to make a tidy profit.

Trouwe Ier

The committee stage did not last very long as it seems to have concluded by 10.50 at the latest.

JoeLeogue 10:50am via TweetDeck
Communications Select sub-Committee has voted against SF proposed amendments to the Eircode data protection bill and has sent it to the Dail

Cork, Ireland
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Journalist with the @irishexaminer, but all opinions on politics, sports, music & whatever else are all mine and not my employer's. joe.leogue@examiner.ie
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TheBustedFlush

Sam Russell wrote: »

Fixed your post.

And by the way, let's make sure there is an adequate revenue stream - would not want the multi-national foreign company not to make a tidy profit.

So presumably you don't want any foreign Irish companies to make any profits in the UK? Or France? Or Germany? Or China?

It's an Irish company that is claiming that they designed eircode - in as much as they could given the crtieria they were set.

Sam Russell

ukoda wrote: »

I said sorting packages, where are you getting doctors from?

Modern and digital are not synonymous - nor are computerised and digital. We do not need to have new modern digital solutions when old fashioned ways still work.

Bringing a system that requires a computer connected to the interweb in you pocket is not a good system.

Sam Russell

TheBustedFlush wrote: »

So presumably you don't want any foreign Irish companies to make any profits in the UK? Or France? Or Germany? Or China?

It's an Irish company that is claiming that they designed eircode - in as much as they could given the crtieria they were set.

I have no problem with making a profit - it is with a system designed to make excess profits - aor to making artificial profits - by that I mean making profits out of services that should be free. Remember, there used to be a toll for pedestrians on the halfpenny bridge.

ukoda

Sam Russell wrote: »

Bringing a system that requires a computer connected to the interweb in you pocket is not a good system.

Not in 1960 anyway when hierarchical postcodes were invented out of necessity due to lack of technology

This is 2015, 85% of people have a web enable device in their pocket and that number is growing rapidly and will be 100% in less than a decade. I see no reason to stick to an old postcode design from decades ago to solve a problem that doesn't exist anymore (OCR tech could only read a postcode, now they can read the full address and in some cases you'd no choice but to manually sort stuff)

Carawaystick

ukoda wrote: »

This is 2015, 85% of people have a web enable device in their pocket and that number is growing rapidly and will be 100% in less than a decade

Thats grand, until you go somewhere with no web access. Then you have a brick.

ukoda

Carawaystick wrote: »

Thats grand, until you go somewhere with no web access. Then you have a brick.

Again, ever increasing coverage in Ireland, currently stands at 95% for most service providers.

Vodafone have 90% 4G coverage, if you lose signal take s few steps to get back into coverage, there's not large parts of Ireland with no contract anymore

Carawaystick

ukoda wrote: »

Again, ever increasing coverage in Ireland, currently stands at 95% for most service providers.

Build forward, not backwards.

Of area? or of population? because most claims I've seen are *'ed and say its a computer simulation rather than measured data

TheBustedFlush

Sam Russell wrote: »

I have no problem with making a profit - it is with a system designed to make excess profits - aor to making artificial profits - by that I mean making profits out of services that should be free. Remember, there used to be a toll for pedestrians on the halfpenny bridge.

Ok - so the tender/contract was set up on the basis that it had to be self-financing over a ten year period. How do you propose that the company which wins the tender would make money to offset the investment they have to make? Most postcode systems around the world have a revenue-generating activity attached to them. This is no different - paying for licence to use the database. the more you use, the more you pay up to a cap.

Joe Public can access it online for free every day - on a reasonable enough basis per device.

How do you know that excess profits will be made? And how do you know that there isn't some kind of profit-sharing mechanism built in at some point as operates in similar state contracts?

ukoda

Carawaystick wrote: »

Of area? or of population? because most claims I've seen are *'ed and say its a computer simulation rather than measured data

Have a look at their coverage maps, in the Vodafone example there are very few pockets of the map that don't have 3/4G

And being a customer of theirs who's done a lot of traveling around remote parts of Ireland I've never had major coverage issues, apart from a few drops for only a few mins

TheChizler

Carawaystick wrote: »

Thats grand, until you go somewhere with no web access. Then you have a brick.

Considering the code and coordinates part of the database will be less than 25 Mb uncompressed, delivery companies will have offline access. For anyone who hasn't paid the fee for the entire database they can look it up before they head off, many people would do this now anyway before travelling to a location they're not familiar with.

my3cents

ukoda wrote: »

Have a look at their coverage maps, in the Vodafone example there are very few pockets of the map that don't have 3/4G

And being a customer of theirs who's done a lot of traveling around remote parts of Ireland I've never had major coverage issues, apart from a few drops for only a few mins

Zero coverage here. Its funny sometime the delivery drivers call as they drive by the call drops and sometimes thats the last you hear of them :rolleyes:

Bayberry

ukoda wrote: »

An Post are happy with the code

https://twitter.com/autoaddress/status/610690983181852672

AutoAddress wrote:

#Eircode FAQ No. 6 Q: Can I post a letter with just an Eircode with no address? A: No. You must write the full address on the envelope.

That's the AutoAddress that boasts that they are the Eircode experts and that they designed the eircode format.

ukoda

Bayberry wrote: »

https://twitter.com/autoaddress/status/610690983181852672


That's the AutoAddress that boasts that they are the Eircode experts and that they designed the eircode format.

So what? An Post are backing the code and have adapted their systems to use it....if the customer chooses to use it. But we all know it's not mandatory. That's the ministers decision

Bayberry

ukoda wrote: »

So what? An Post are backing the code and have adapted their systems to use it....if the customer chooses to use it. But we all know it's not mandatory. That's the ministers decision

No, An Post have not adapted their systems to use it. They've simply added an additional field for it to the GeoDirectory, but if you try to send a letter with only an eircode on it, it'll be kicked out of the system, and eventually someone might look up the eircode, scribble the real address on the envelop, and throw it back into the system (because they're pretty nice peple at An Post).

Aparently, they'll do the same if you put just a LOC8 code on an envelope.

oscarBravo

my3cents wrote: »

Zero coverage here. Its funny sometime the delivery drivers call as they drive by the call drops and sometimes thats the last you hear of them :rolleyes:

If only there was some way to look up the location, and directions to it, while still in coverage.

my3cents

oscarBravo wrote: »

If only there was some way to look up the location, and directions to it, while still in coverage.

Well this is the problem. The drivers at the bottom of the food chain are left to sort out their delivery's themselves they don't get any help from higher up just afaik a cage full of parcels to pick up and deliver. If they have no clue where I am they'll call as I always include a phone number its the ones that think they know where I am that drive somewhere near and then call on the approach that have the problem.

ukoda

Bayberry wrote: »

No, An Post have not adapted their systems to use it. They've simply added an additional field for it to the GeoDirectory, but if you try to send a letter with only an eircode on it, it'll be kicked out of the system, and eventually someone might look up the eircode, scribble the real address on the envelop, and throw it back into the system (because they're pretty nice peple at An Post).

Aparently, they'll do the same if you put just a LOC8 code on an envelope.

Are you sure that's all An Post have done? Because you are wrong.

dr.fuzzenstein

Bayberry wrote: »

Most of the companies that specialize in this area (An Post and FTAI) have said that they won't be using eircode because it wasn't designed to do the things that they need from a post code.

Have you any statement from An Post stating the above?
Or should I say any statement or link to same to back up this completely made up pile of nonsense.

oscarBravo

my3cents wrote: »

Well this is the problem. The drivers at the bottom of the food chain are left to sort out their delivery's themselves they don't get any help from higher up just afaik a cage full of parcels to pick up and deliver.

And having a code on each parcel that precisely and unambiguously locates that parcel's destination is a bad thing... how?

dr.fuzzenstein

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Have you any statement from An Post stating the above?
Or should I say any statement or link to same to back up this completely made up pile of nonsense.

Well?

hognef

ukoda wrote: »

Not in 1960 anyway when hierarchical postcodes were invented out of necessity due to lack of technology

This is 2015, 85% of people have a web enable device in their pocket and that number is growing rapidly and will be 100% in less than a decade. I see no reason to stick to an old postcode design from decades ago to solve a problem that doesn't exist anymore (OCR tech could only read a postcode, now they can read the full address and in some cases you'd no choice but to manually sort stuff)

Do you use a calculator for simple maths like 2+2, or can you see the benefit of being able to use your own brain for that?

ukoda

hognef wrote: »

Do you use a calculator for simple maths like 2+2, or can you see the benefit of being able to use your own brain for that?

thats not equatable to this situation

People use mobile devices to navigate these days. That's a fact. It has nothing to do with intelligence, it's called convenience.

If I'm going somewhere I get the postcode of my destination and pop it into my phone or other device and away I go. That's just life now. I don't give a **** if its hierarchical or not, I just want it to direct me to my destination, I don't want to have to work it out manually based on other codes or anything like that.

hognef

ukoda wrote: »

thats not equatable to this situation

People use mobile devices to navigate these days. That's a fact. It has nothing to do with intelligence, it's called convenience.

If I'm going somewhere I get the postcode of my destination and pop it into my phone or other device and away I go. That's just life now. I don't give a **** if its hierarchical or not, I just want it to direct me to my destination, I don't want to have to work it out manually based on other codes or anything like that.

If you're at address A, and going to address B, wouldn't it be nice to know that's actually next door without having to use an electronic device?

ukoda

hognef wrote: »

If you're at address A, and going to address B, wouldn't it be nice to know that's actually next door without having to use an electronic device?

They haven't replaced conventional addresses with just a postcode you know?

JumpShivers

Will you be able to pop these into your phone like a normal postcode in US or UK or Netherlands and will tomtom software etc be able to recognise these. Or at least the routing key?

ukoda

JumpShivers wrote: »

Will you be able to pop these into your phone like a normal postcode in US or UK or Netherlands and will tomtom software etc be able to recognise these. Or at least the routing key?

That's likely anyway, will take time for those companies to get on board tho

oscarBravo

hognef wrote: »

If you're at address A, and going to address B, wouldn't it be nice to know that's actually next door without having to use an electronic device?

A bit like how you can tell at a glance that BN18 0SU and PO20 3SA in the UK are nowhere near each other?

yuloni

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