National Postcodes to be introduced

plodder

ukoda wrote: »

You have to wonder why wouldn't you? As their stance was "it's of absolutely no use to our members"

Oh right yeah, it's because they've changed thier stance now to "its of some use to our members"

And they put a request out for companies help them map the routing keys

No, what they have said is entirely consistent with their stance. The 139 routing key areas are not much of an improvement on what we've got (26/32 counties plus Dublin districts) right now, but it is an improvement. So, maps of these areas are useful.

TheBustedFlush

ukoda wrote: »

Twitter is a good representation of a cross section of society. I made the point that no joe public types on Twitter have requested a map of the routing keys. Companies have yes, companies with an interest.

I'm not saying it wouldn't be a good idea to have the map, im just making the point that I don't see the demand for it.

"Twitter is a good representation of a cross section of society."

Really? Where's the evidence that supports this for Ireland? And that its content serves as a good representation of society's thinking on public issues?

ukoda

plodder wrote: »

No, what they have said is entirely consistent with their stance. The 139 routing key areas are not much of an improvement on what we've got (26/32 counties plus Dublin districts) right now, but it is an improvement. So, maps of these areas are useful.

"Freight Transport Association of Ireland (FTAI), which represents more than 200 member companies, has said the postcode is “useless” to its members."


Their you go. You're wrong. They clearly say it's useless.

Every time you quote me you start you're reply with "No." It's getting a bit tiresome now. I'm not wrong.

TheBustedFlush

plodder wrote: »

No, what they have said is entirely consistent with their stance. The 139 routing key areas are not much of an improvement on what we've got (26/32 counties plus Dublin districts) right now, but it is an improvement. So, maps of these areas are useful.

More to the point. If Eircode wanted the FTAI to shut up and stop making such public criticism of the code, and if they recognised that providing a map of the routing keys would be useful to them, then why not provide the map?

It could be easily done, and it would be seen as a positive response to a highly critical sector.

But Eircode don't produce the map. I wonder why not?

ukoda

TheBustedFlush wrote: »

"Twitter is a good representation of a cross section of society."

Really? Where's the evidence that supports this for Ireland? And that its content serves as a good representation of society's thinking on public issues?

Grand so, we will ignore everything on Twitter, and thus we can proclaim the eircode launch a huge success with no issues raised by the public. Hurray!

SpaceTime

BTW, you can use eircode with your mobile phone navigation.

go to:

www.eircode.ie and use the mobile site

key in the eircode and hit search. Once found:

tap "Directions"

and it will launch Google Maps or Apple Maps (etc) at the correct GPS point.

It's a bit of a work-around cludge, but it works.

plodder

TheBustedFlush wrote: »

More to the point. If Eircode wanted the FTAI to shut up and stop making such public criticism of the code, and if they recognised that providing a map of the routing keys would be useful to them, then why not provide the map?

It could be easily done, and it would be seen as a positive response to a highly critical sector.

But Eircode don't produce the map. I wonder why not?

Why not ask them?

TheBustedFlush

ukoda wrote: »

Grand so, we will ignore everything on Twitter, and thus we can proclaim the eircode launch a huge success with no issues raised by the public. Hurray!

And that's called avoiding the question. Yes there were issues raised by a small number of the public. Those who took the trouble to go on Twitter about it.

Do I think those people represent society at large? No I don't.

Do you think that all those complaining about their addresses on Twitter represented a good cross-section of society, and you could use that as a reliable indicator of widespread public criticism/anger/uproar or delight/praise of the code?

Or would non-appearance on Twitter point to a more likely assumption that the vast majority of the general public couldn't give two figs about the Eircode or the one they were assigned?

TheBustedFlush

plodder wrote: »

Why not ask them?

I did. And the answer was......?

ukoda

TheBustedFlush wrote: »

And that's called avoiding the question. Yes there were issues raised by a small number of the public. Those who took the trouble to go on Twitter about it.

Do I think those people represent society at large? No I don't.

Do you think that all those complaining about their addresses on Twitter represented a good cross-section of society, and you could use that as a reliable indicator of widespread public criticism/anger/uproar or delight/praise of the code?

Or would non-appearance on Twitter point to a more likely assumption that the vast majority of the general public couldn't give two figs about the Eircode or the one they were assigned?

To reply directly to your question. Here is the research that shows Twitter has its finger on the pulse of all topical subjects on Ireland.

I know you might prefer to get your news from the "wireless" but this is 2015, Social media has a huge impact on our society

http://www.eightytwenty.ie/blog/how-twitter-is-used-in-ireland/

https://www.simplyzesty.com/blog/article/august-2009/50-irish-influencers-to-follow-on-twitter[url][/url]

TheBustedFlush

ukoda wrote: »

To reply directly to your question. Here is the research that shows Twitter has its finger on the pulse of all topical subjects on Ireland.

I know you might prefer to get your news from the "wireless" but this is 2015, Social media has a huge impact on our society

http://www.eightytwenty.ie/blog/how-twitter-is-used-in-ireland/

https://www.simplyzesty.com/blog/article/august-2009/50-irish-influencers-to-follow-on-twitter[url][/url]

Yes - I had to put my reading spectacles to make out the tiny print, but I did read the following:

"Recent Ipsos MRBI data for Ireland indicates 27% of the Irish population over the age of 15 uses Twitter, this increases to 53% for 15 to 24 year olds and 46% of 25 – 34 year olds.

When you consider the age of the average Twitter user, with the above data, we can identify that they are predominantly young and urban based."

I was just about able to make out, by peering really closely at the screen, that:

"From this research we can assume the Irish Twitter audience is;
Mostly active in Dublin and Cork
Key spots of high activity exist’s outside of the capital in Louth, Meath, Kildare, Wicklow and Waterford
A high proportion of users are aged 15 – 35."


And:

Marketing Limitations of Twitter

The biggest limitation of Twitter for brands is in trying to reach an older and rural audience. For brands who target this demographic Twitter is a less essential platform than other digital and traditional channels. To reach this audience brands will have to investigate other platforms and media to compliment Twitter activity."

From the above, after thinking slowly for a while, I came to the conclusion that
a) the author can't spell, and
b) you are talking a load of "tosh" as I think you young fellas like to say. In my day, it was just a load of bolloc*s, but you mightn't understand that.

Can I turn up my wireless again now? "Gardener's World" is about to start, and they've a fascinating item on about how 'Turnips don't grow only in the garden'.

yours etc,

Grandad.

plodder

TheBustedFlush wrote: »

I did. And the answer was......?

Do tell ...

ukoda

TheBustedFlush wrote: »

Yes - I had to put my reading spectacles to make out the tiny print, but I did read the following:

"Recent Ipsos MRBI data for Ireland indicates 27% of the Irish population over the age of 15 uses Twitter, this increases to 53% for 15 to 24 year olds and 46% of 25 – 34 year olds.

When you consider the age of the average Twitter user, with the above data, we can identify that they are predominantly young and urban based."

I was just about able to make out, by peering really closely at the screen, that:

"From this research we can assume the Irish Twitter audience is;
Mostly active in Dublin and Cork
Key spots of high activity exist’s outside of the capital in Louth, Meath, Kildare, Wicklow and Waterford
A high proportion of users are aged 15 – 35."


And:

Marketing Limitations of Twitter

The biggest limitation of Twitter for brands is in trying to reach an older and rural audience. For brands who target this demographic Twitter is a less essential platform than other digital and traditional channels. To reach this audience brands will have to investigate other platforms and media to compliment Twitter activity."

From the above, after thinking slowly for a while, I came to the conclusion that
a) the author can't spell, and
b) you are talking a load of "tosh" as I think you young fellas like to say. In my day, it was just a load of bolloc*s, but you mightn't understand that.

Can I turn up my wireless again now? "Gardener's World" is about to start, and they've a fascinating item on about how 'Turnips don't grow only in the garden'.

yours etc,

Grandad.

Pick the parts that support your argument and ignore the rest if you so choose.

But I have to hand it to you, that reply made me chuckle a bit.

TheBustedFlush

ukoda wrote: »

Pick the parts that support your argument and ignore the rest if you so choose.

I picked the parts that were summaries of what was written. In this instance, it was a summary of the demographics that mainly use Twitter.

You originally asserted that Twitter represented a fair cross-section of Irish society.

I disputed that. I would think the above data would support my view that it doesn't. It has a predominance - understandably - amongst a younger audience (sub 35 years old), and has a strong urban/rural divide.

PS - it is okay for you to admit to have been mistaken in your view.

ukoda

TheBustedFlush wrote: »

I picked the parts that were summaries of what was written. In this instance, it was a summary of the demographics that mainly use Twitter.

You originally asserted that Twitter represented a fair cross-section of Irish society.

I disputed that. I would think the above data would support my view that it doesn't. It has a predominance - understandably - amongst a younger audience (sub 35 years old), and has a strong urban/rural divide.

That divide is in *usage* not necessarily in opinions. The reality is that if anything big happens in Ireland it trends on Twitter and is subsequently picked up by the traditional media sources and becomes part of the mainstream. Most opinion polls on Twitter are very good reflection on real life. But look we are in a tangent here so I'll say no more

Sam Russell

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

And that's why this will never work here. Even if every country boreen had a name and every house a number, people would resist the change, they would refuse to use the new address and how many houses in towns that actually DO have a number, have that number up on the house? Very few.
If you look at houses in the countryside, you will see no identifying marks on them whatsoever, no name, no nothing. The general attitude is "well it's no one's business who lives here!". Honestly, no kidding, that's what people have said about Eircodes and why they won't be using them.
Cutting off your nose to spite your face comes to mind.

Do you have any evidence for any of this? Any survey results showing people do not want their houses identified? Or is this supposition?

Why would people not put an identity on their house if An Post were to refuse to deliver mail, or delay the post, to houses not identifiable uniquely? It is because the post gets delivered that the current system continues. I used to try to deliver to houses (suburban) that had no identity whatsoever to identify itself, and I had to find the rare house that did have identity and count down from there. It is not even standard the odds are one side and even the other.

It is a sad missed opportunity that no attempt was made to correct addresses or even to identify a preferred address structure as part of the roll out of Eircode. For example, prior to the Eircode launch they could have launched their app asking people to identify the house and check the address - with the option to correct it if it was wrong. Apparently, the geodirectory has various versions of addresses for each property and could ask which of these were the occupants favourite.

marmurr1916

OU812 wrote: »

Any ideas why Dublin 21 & 23 were not used ? I know they weren't before, but it seems dumb to loose them altogether when they could have used them.

The Dublin 6W fiasco must have put everyone off the idea of expanding the D Eircode area.

Dublin city and county is divided into a total of 31 Eircode routing key areas:

2 X A:

A94
A96

22 X

D01
D02
D03
D04
D05
D06
D6W
D07
D08
D09
D10
D11
D12
D13
D14
D15
D16
D17
D18
D20
D22
D24

7 x K:

K32
K34
K36
K45
K56
K67
K78

Logically, A94 and A96 could have been numbered D26 and D28 (both are in south Dublin) while the K areas could have been given odd D numbers (all are in north Dublin).

But given the ruckus that happened when Dublin 26 was proposed for what's now D6W, imagine the fuss that could have occured if people in Blackrock, Stillorgan etc found themselves in D26 (OMG loike, so close to D24, Tallaghtfornia! :eek:).

Better to avoid the whole potential hassle of having people complain again about the numbering of Dublin postal districts and just invent new ones that are totally unrelated to the existing ones.

Sheldons Brain

marmurr1916 wrote: »

The Dublin 6W fiasco must have put everyone off the idea of expanding the D Eircode area.

Dublin city and county is divided into a total of 31 Eircode routing key areas:

2 X A:

A94
A96

22 X

D01
D02
D03
D04
D05
D06
D6W
D07
D08
D09
D10
D11
D12
D13
D14
D15
D16
D17
D18
D20
D22
D24

7 x K:

K32
K34
K36
K45
K56
K67
K78

Logically, A94 and A96 could have been numbered D26 and D28 (both are in south Dublin) while the K areas could have been given odd D numbers (all are in north Dublin).

But given the ruckus that happened when Dublin 26 was proposed for what's now D6W, imagine the fuss that could have occured if people in Blackrock, Stillorgan etc found themselves in D26 (OMG loike, so close to D24, Tallaghtfornia! :eek:).

Better to avoid the whole potential hassle of having people complain again about the numbering of Dublin postal districts and just invent new ones that are totally unrelated to the existing ones.

Well of course they could have used D60 or something not especially close to the traditional numbers. Now Dublin is D and K is north county in general, but A includes places well away from Dublin on both sides, which looks like a definite decision to confound any "clustering".

SpaceTime

I'm sure it'll work but it looks a little chaotic.

marmurr1916

SpaceTime wrote: »

I'd say though leaving off the first line of the address is going to make the postman's life harder than it should be as they'll have to look up the code to figure out where you're on about.

Unit X Wilton Shopping Centre
T12 ****

Would suffice.

The sorting systems will get the item to the delivery person / postal worker, but it's not going to provide them with something they can identify on the ground, so it might start to become a bit annoying if the top line of the address is gone entirely.

It's not going to be the delivery staff who'll be looking up Eircodes.

If a delivery item just has an Eircode on it, the sorting staff will stick an extra label on with more address information.

Although I wouldn't be surprised if delivery staff with good memories quickly enough come to remember what addresses are represented by individual Eircodes, at least for addresses getting a lot of deliveries.

GJG

Aimead wrote: »

But we didn’t even end up with the good. By adding random (or pseudorandom if you prefer) characters they have removed functionality (i.e. the functionality that comes with hierarchy) for no reason whatsoever.

This isn’t a case of, as you rather inaccurately portray it, anyone requesting more consultation. This is a case of an entire fecking industry (logistics and transport) being ‘consulted’ and then being utterly ignored. I cannot speak to other industries since I am not familiar with what submissions they did or did not make, but I do know the submissions and representations made by the transport and logistics industry – and we may as well have sat on our arses singing dixie for all the good our consultation did.

Consider this from a submission by CILT and tell me that it doesn’t make sense:

“Principles for a National Postcode
The Institute considers the following principles to be important in the decision to adopt a National Postcode:
It should be granular: A postcode should be capable of providing a detailed, precise and unambiguous identifier for each individual address.

It should be scalar: A postcode should be capable of expressing a greater or lesser degrees of granularity by extending or reducing the number of characters in the postcode. (For example, a scalar system such as OpenPostcode divides the country into successively smaller 5x5 grids. Five characters would identify a postal area, six characters an individual address, and seven characters a part of a property, such as a gate.) A scalar code would be able to accommodate any material privacy concerns by specifying the level of detail that could be made available in any particular database.

Open-sourced: A postcode should be derived from a source that is publicly available and free to use. It should be unlicensed, or if licenced, the licensor should be the Minister or ComReg; who would provide it to individuals or commercial bodies free of charge.

It should be decodeable: A postcode should be directly translatable to longitude/latitude coordinates. This would allow the postcode to interact with other data sources, improve its usefulness, and “future-proof” it.

It should be “Beyond Post”: The An Post GeoDirectory already has address identifiers for approximately 2.2m unique addresses in the Republic of Ireland. An Post does not require postcodes to deliver mail (although market liberalisation requires that a system to identify and efficiently deliver to postal customers be available). Since most of the justification for the adoption of a postcode is outside the letter mail sector, a value-for-money postcode must be capable of delivering the requirements of these services. A Post-Town system is not capable of these additional levels of functionality, and would be a waste of money. ”

That last point is, for me, the most crucial. Deliberately and artificially decoupling the code from GPS was in-fecking-defensible. Do you seriously want to try claiming that Rabbite, in all his wisdom, was correct in ignoring such common-sense principles as being “obstructionism”?

Whenever you see Alex White talk about how the stakeholders where ‘consulted’ you should probably read that as ‘ignored’. As I said earlier, I’m not familiar with the views of other industries, but I haven’t been able to find anything in any submissions that asked for ‘random characters so that the code isn’t hierarchical’.

A 9 character alphanumeric code gives 33^9 possible locations. Say we take Ireland as being 56,-11 to 51,-5 on GPS this gives about 215 billion square metres (actual land area is about 85 billion, but I’m deliberately including more for this exercise). So if we assume we want a resolution of 5x5 square metres this means we need 8.6x10^9 codes. 33^9 is on the order of 4.6x10^13. Suppose, for uniqueness, we add a ‘height’ component. For 9 entries this would need 4.1x10^10 codes. Three orders of magnitude more ‘possible codes’ is more than sufficient for single digit error correction and error correction for when two digits are reversed. Instead of having the silly point locations that Eircode has, each database entry would define a polygon for a property, so any self-generated codes can be mapped to a database entry (you could even display the closest entries for non-property locations too).

The above calculation is completely off the top of my head, and it may well be possible to achieve the same results with an 8-digit code (would need to crunch the numbers a bit more closely for that). The result is a code that has all the advantages of Eircode (some of which, imho, aren’t really advantages at all) with all the benefits listed in the CILT submission.

To put it bluntly, that the rather obvious advantages that come with being hierarchical were dropped (and for piss poor reasons at that) was a bit of a shock to us in the transport industry.

Some of your ideas are valid, but Eircode is nothing if not granular.

I think that it could have been done in a hierarchical large area/small area/dwelling style, but I can see problems with that too. However several of you/their points basically boil down to it should be a Loc8-style algorithm of a grid system. This idea was considered and rejected, for a long series of good reasons. I'm not going to type them all out again, but that would give a many-to-many relationship between codes and properties rather than one-to-one, and it would allow people to generate codes themselves on the fly. Both of these are unacceptable for many compliance-related uses.

A hierarchical system would give proximate properties very similar codes, diminishing its value in solving the non-unique address problem; this could be overcome in design, but only to the extent that it would diminish any benefit of it being hierarchical. If your address is only one character different to your neighbour, that's not much. The more different it is, the less similar it is, you can't square that circle.

Lastly, if you are using a hierarchical system, you must choose areas, and within that smaller areas. Whose area? If those areas become a major feature of the system, then what about other uses where that style of subdivision doesn't suit?

As it stands, it is trivially easy, if you have the db with the codes and their lat/long, to write a few lines of code to add a field assigning each eircode to one of any set of areas you choose, so make your own hierarchy.

plodder

GJG wrote: »

but that would give a many-to-many relationship between codes and properties rather than one-to-one, and it would allow people to generate codes themselves on the fly. Both of these are unacceptable for many compliance-related uses.

I don't agree with that. It's only when you see how little of the possible space of Eircodes that are actually being used, that you realise the problem is the same for both.

If a loc8 (or similar) type of geocode were chosen then you would use the Geodirectory to generate a database of official (canonical) codes. These would be used for all compliance related purposes.

This is actually no different to Eircode, because in both cases you need a database to verify if a particular string of letters and numbers represents a valid code.

The difference is that with Geocodes, you can still use the "invalid" ones for navigation (emergency services to accident scenes etc).

Of course, loc8 falls down on the requirement for separate codes within the same building. But, that was always a dubious requirement given that subdivided buildings nearly always have unit numbers or they could have been assigned as part of this project.

A hierarchical system would give proximate properties very similar codes, diminishing its value in solving the non-unique address problem; this could be overcome in design, but only to the extent that it would diminish any benefit of it being hierarchical. If your address is only one character different to your neighbour, that's not much. The more different it is, the less similar it is, you can't square that circle.

I don't know what you're trying to say here. It doesn't matter if codes are similar, so long as they differ in at least one or two characters. The whole point of hierarchy is that they should be similar.

Lastly, if you are using a hierarchical system, you must choose areas, and within that smaller areas. Whose area? If those areas become a major feature of the system, then what about other uses where that style of subdivision doesn't suit?

True, but small areas are actually really quite small. The idea is they should be small enough that it doesn't make sense to subdivide them further, and being that small you can then combine them differently for all the different uses. And if even that is not good enough, you can still do what Eircode requires you to do today, which is create your own areas.

Sam Russell

All you need to do with a loc8 (or similar) type code is to add one or two alphanumeric characters to the end of the code that are checksum/validating codes. When I type in my PIN into the credit card machine it come back very quickly, without consulting a db, and says valid/not valid. An algorithm is all that is needed to verify a loc8 (or similar) code is a valid address type locate rather than a spurious one or contains an error. Passing the code against a db would also verify it, and be able to give the actual address, rather than just geo coordinates.

Aimead

ukoda wrote: »

You have to wonder why wouldn't you? As their stance was "it's of absolutely no use to our members"

Oh right yeah, it's because they've changed thier stance now to "its of some use to our members"

To say that you are being disingenuous right now would be an understatement.

For fecking years we in the transport industry gave testimony and our expertise as part of the consultations. And in each case there was a central point – for any code to be useful it had to convey where locations where with reference to each other. Given all of that, that you are being snarky when the FTAI actually try and make use of the one single portion of Eircode that conveys location information (i.e. the routing keys)….. that is simply being disingenuous.

---

plodder wrote: »

The public wasn't asked if it wanted a hierarchical code or a random code.

In a way they were – every submission I’ve seen that even broached this was recommending a hierarchical code.

---

GJG wrote: »

This idea was considered and rejected, for a long series of good reasons. I'm not going to type them all out again, but that would give a many-to-many relationship between codes and properties rather than one-to-one, and it would allow people to generate codes themselves on the fly. Both of these are unacceptable for many compliance-related uses.

I don’t know why being able to generate codes on the fly would be a bad thing, I really don’t. But you seem to missed where I explained how the many-to-many issue is easily solved. The numbers I crunched show that there was plenty of capacity for assigning unique codes for addresses at the same physical location.

The more different it is, the less similar it is, you can't square that circle.

Really? Are you sure about that? There are entire error correction codes that are premised on the notion that you can indeed square this circle. I also discussed this in a bit more depth in a later post with calculating offsets.

If those areas become a major feature of the system, then what about other uses where that style of subdivision doesn't suit?

??? I find it difficult to take this ‘criticism’ seriously when you consider the huge swathe of uses the current Eircode implementation doesn’t suit. I’d say a substantial amount of the outhouses we make deliveries to won’t even have an Eircode for example.

As it stands, it is trivially easy, if you have the db with the codes and their lat/long, to write a few lines of code to add a field assigning each eircode to one of any set of areas you choose, so make your own hierarchy.

So instead of Eircode helping to make our job a little bit easier you recommend we write a parser to give the functionality that Eircode doesn’t have (and was designed not to have)? Isn’t that, like, proving my point???

---

plodder wrote: »

The whole point of hierarchy is that they should be similar.

This isn’t true. For example consider the following simplified example:

AAA-ABEF
AAA-EFJK
AAA-GHLM

Ignoring the routing key and supposing that the first two digits are an X coordinate and the last two digits a Y coordinate. Suppose these properties are adjacent to each other. In the case not only the codes dissimilar but you can still see the hierarchy. Codes that are between the above would be flagged as errors.

It all depends how the error correct is being done, but it is certainly possible to have dissimilar codes for adjacent properties while preserving hierarchy.

---

Sam Russell wrote: »

All you need to do with a loc8 (or similar) type code is to add one or two alphanumeric characters to the end of the code that are checksum/validating codes.

Ending checksums are fine for detecting errors, but not so good at correcting them. A good method for adding self-correction is to go with the ‘nearest’ valid value. There is a wealth of established mathematics behind this, but the basic idea is that your code is treated like a multidimensional vector. So for a n-digit code you have a vectorspace of dimension n. Within that vectorspace there is a subset of ‘valid’ codes. If, when an error occurs, there is a single unambiguous valid code that is the shortest distance from the code with the error then you can take that and use that valid code.

In other words, the very algorithm that generates the code has the error correction baked in.

Small factoid. Your 3G phone? Made possible due to breakthroughs in this area of mathematical research. In the 60’s an hypothesised ‘limit’ for how good the error correction could be, the ‘Shannon Limit’, was proposed. It wasn’t until the 90’s that codes were developed that hit that limit – and such codes underpin 3G.

Schadenfreudia

Any know where Kilternan (Dub) is in all of this? Are we D something?

Impetus

Trouwe Ier wrote: »

So to date, we know the following:

A - South East Dublin (probably the most affluent part of the Republic and it gets "A")
C -
D - Dublin
E -
F -
H - Galway
K - Co. Dublin (part)
N - Longford and Westmeath
P - Deep South Cork
R - Laois and Offaly
T - Cork City and East Hinterland
V - Limerick
W -
X - Waterford
Y -

C,. E, F, W and Y are left.

Does anyone have any information on the north-west, north east, south-east, Clare, Tipperary or Kerry?

I'll say it again, Blackrock and presumably Dún Laoghaire, Foxrock etc get "A": now that does sound suspicious to me. It would probably have been better if they hadn't used that letter.

Under this stupid "system" much of Cork city is T. Other parts of Cork are P. Where is the logic please? In any environment where things have to be sorted, vans filled with stuff for delivery, whatever logistics work is needed, this makes no sense. If you are filling a delivery van you need to fill the vehicle in order of delivery - so that the first address you call to is at the top of the pile of goods, and the last address is at the back and bottom of the pile. Eircode is stupid in the extreme when it comes to logistics. The idea of randomization of codes is stupid - if not evil. It is akin to house numbers on a street not being in sequential order and expecting the postman to sort his / her letters for delivery. A sick code, devised by sick people working for the contracting companies, comreg and gov.ie.

1) An intelligent postcode should be easy to remember for the householder. Eircode fails appallingly, especially outside the Dublin area. In a postcode system - eg Switzerland all 1nnn are around Geneva, 8nnn are around Zurich, 9nnn are around Lausanne. Similar in Germany - 8nnnn are in Bavaria, 6nnnn are around Frankfurt.

2) An intelligent postcode should be numeric only - and the numbering regionally based so that codes beginning with 1 are in Dublin, 2 are in a neighbouring region, etc.

3) If you put the Eircode on an envelope -- if a machine is sorting - it is likely to confuse with a British postcode - eg W6 is it London or Cork? In manual sorting it does not look like any code used in the world aside from GB - so the mail in question will get sent to GB adding 2 or 3 days to delivery delay. Lesson : Do not tell anybody about a postcode when communicating with you.

4) The Eircode has been implemented by companies who are in the same game as Hacking Team (based in Milan) - who work for corrupt governments. eg one of Hacking Team's malware products can install paedo images on a target's PC to set him/her up for "legal action". What legitimate gov wants to frame a person for paedo stuff?

5) If you enter an eircode into google maps it does not find the building. You also have to enter the city name. With other postcodes, you just enter the postcode and google maps finds the location.

6) Eircode is still including the county name. No country with a postcode system needs a county name as part of the address..

7) While some 50 million or so has been wasted on this illogical, non-system, it is better off to boycott same. It is a racket to extract money from companies, it will not help An Post, it will help foreign spy agencies and hackers, and is the most stupidly random postcode non-system ever invented on the planet. A national embarrassment.

8) The eircode has been driven by the CSO, the most clueless and procrastinateive stats agency in the EU.

Impetus

We are at posting 7229 - which postings are either critical of the eircode or are pro eircode with a strong sniff of eircode insiders working for the companies responsible or the government spewing from one's PC or whatever device one uses to view the thread.

a65b2cd

Impetus wrote: »

Under this stupid "system" much of Cork city is W.

8) The eircode has been driven by the CSO, the most clueless and procrastinateive stats agency in the EU.

The CSO has routing keys beginning with W in Kildare and Wicklow so either you are wrong or they are wrong and judging by you, they must be wrong?

See http://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/dber/domesticbuildingenergyratingsquarter22015/#.ValsB_lViko

ukoda

a65b2cd wrote: »

The CSO has routing keys beginning with W in Kildare and Wicklow so either you are wrong or they are wrong and judging by you, they must be wrong?

See http://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/dber/domesticbuildingenergyratingsquarter22015/#.ValsB_lViko

It's best to not entertain this guy. Just ignore him, questioning him just fuels his rants.

Trouwe Ier

I'm reasonably "pro".

It has done the business for me at work.

I work for a public body and I have a sibling employed by the Department of Education. I pay my taxes and charges.

There was a guy around to the house tonight from the Council checking my entry on the register of electors.

Apart from all that, I have no known financial, professional, social or family link with any arm of government, Eircode, Capita, Auto-Address etc......

I imagine that most like-minded folk on this thread could say something similar!