National Postcodes to be introduced

Impetus

a65b2cd wrote: »

The CSO has routing keys beginning with W in Kildare and Wicklow so either you are wrong or they are wrong and judging by you, they must be wrong?

See http://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/dber/domesticbuildingenergyratingsquarter22015/#.ValsB_lViko

I don't know if the underlying data are correct or otherwise, but the data is not intuitive in terms of location and proximity. CSO's own eircode does not work in maps.google.com unless you put the enter the city in the search box.

CSO's own eircode does not work in Google maps unless you enter the city - ie T12 X00E Cork. With postcodes you can enter the postcode without the city name. eg Germany DE-60549.

In any event the Irish system has no simple proximity/alphanumericy relationship that the "man in the street" can comprehend.

Impetus

When I see the "rant" word on boards, I usually smell "vested interest", and often a whiff of corruption.

a65b2cd

Impetus wrote: »

W6 is it London or Cork?

Can you tell us?

ukoda

Impetus wrote: »

When I see the "rant" word on boards, I usually smell "vested interest", and often a whiff of corruption.

Maybe you see rant a lot because you rant a lot

And btw, eircode isn't on google maps YET, it's only out 5 days, it will be on Google maps within a few months, I know this from radio interviews ericode have done, no vested interest or inside info here, move along.

Impetus

ukoda wrote: »

Maybe you see rant a lot because you rant a lot

And btw, eircode isn't on google maps YET, it's only out 5 days, it will be on Google maps within a few months, I know this from radio interviews ericode have done, no vested interest or inside info here, move along.

Well it finds the CSO office - providing you put the word Cork in front of the Eircode. If it was working properly the eircode or IE-eircode should find the target. I suspect Google is having problems with the confusing alpha numeric code, and its easy confusion with GB and perhaps Canadian codes in some cases. Typical Anglo Saxon confusion - while IRL is not an Anglo Saxon country, it behaves like one in many respects, ie zero respect / acceptance of global standards and that there are other countries/people/buildings on the planet. There is an established format for postcodes in 99% of the countries that use postcodes - ie they are all numeric and the code appears before the town name and you can prefix the ISO country code to distinguish one country code from another. The Oirish approach is arrogant, dumb, and a breach of data privacy and computer / payment card / banking security.

While I don't believe I engage in ranting, I have no problem with people who speak in a loud, impassioned way about wrongs, corruption, ejitness in society etc. It tends to wake people up to issues. . And it tends to show up "rantees" - ie vested interests. Because the average John Doe does not have a reason to "attack" a rant - because it does not bother him/her.

Impetus

PS pardon me while I cough. ukoda has a vested interest pattern of postings in this topic. All of which are pro the eircode infrastructure enforcement lobby.

The only issue I've come across so far it that some company websites can't validate the new postcodes, why switch on validation if it doesn't work!

Impetus

Deleted User wrote: »

The only issue I've come across so far it that some company websites can't validate the new postcodes, why switch on validation if it doesn't work!

What do you expect from a "bunch of ejits" given the task by a similar.....?

Victor

Impetus wrote: »

PS pardon me while I cough. ukoda has a vested interest pattern of postings in this topic. All of which are pro the eircode infrastructure enforcement lobby.

Constructive posts only please

Impetus wrote: »

When I see the "rant" word on boards, I usually smell "vested interest", and often a whiff of corruption.

If you want to make accusations of corruption, do so to the Garda, not here.

Moderator

Nermal

FTAI objections boil down to 'we don't want to pay for it'. Thankfully they were not listened to.

Trouwe Ier

I had a look at some codes for the area between the Limerick/Clare border at Clondrinagh on the Ennis Road (V94) and Shannon (V14).

The "Ennis, Co. Clare" V95 routing key includes Cratloe, Bunratty, Sixmilebridge and Portdrine which is a townland between the N18 at Cratloe and the estuary.

And as we know the "Shannon Limerick" V94 routing key includes Shannon Town and airport which is further west.

V14 is therefore a "postal exclave" of Limerick being non-contiguous to the ever more curious V94.

It's not just Shannon that the locals are complaining about as Dromcolliher is shown as being in Co. Cork and Galbally and Oola are shown as being in Co. Tipperary.

As I said last night, it would do harm for Eircode to publicise and explain the rationale behind post towns..

Interestingly, Meelick is within "V94" but is listed as "Meelick, Co. Clare", which it is, just!

ukoda

Nermal wrote: »

FTAI objections boil down to 'we don't want to pay for it'. Thankfully they were not listened to.

There are innovative companies out there piloting drones for deliveries and coming up with ideas like parcel motel. I can hail a taxi and monitor its every move to my house, technology is vastly improving our day to day lives. However the FTAI are campaigning for a code designed in the 60's to be able to carry out deliveries the way they've done it for decades my manually sorting packages with human eyes. And they want it free because they are too cheap to invest in modern technology. We heard this from Nightline, they said they can adopt ericode because they have modern technology, and they went on to say that most FTAI members are using outdated legacy systems designed purely around the UK based postcode, and their nose is out of joint that we didn't just copy the UK code allowing them to do absolutely no changes to thier system and continue to bury their heads in the sand and chug along with decades old tech because sur it does the job

SpaceTime

This thing about a EU or global standard : there isn't one and a French or German style 5 digit code would provide basically no extra information that isn't already in the address.

You've a general idea of 4 or 5 digit district numbering in most of Europe and the U.S. Zip system. That's been extended by zip+4 in the U.S. and adding two alpha characters in the Netherlands.

Also, of course Ireland shares knowledge and ideas with the rest of the anglophone world. We also mostly share the same common law approach to the legal system, similar concepts of parliamentary democracy etc etc - it's not really very surprising that we do a lot of things in a similar way to the countries were most familiar with and most similar to.

Oddly enough, we also share similar origins of addressing conventions.

The term "Anglo Saxon" is just a politically charged one that has relatively little meaning other than being used as a pejorative by the French in particular to make sweeping statements. I don't really encounter it being used in anglophone countries.

Also quite a few anglophone countries have more than one language. Ireland : Irish, UK : Irish, Welsh, Scots Gaelic & several smaller languages are recognised too.
Canada : French and several Native American languages. NZ: Maori ...

MarkK

Impetus wrote: »

Well it finds the CSO office - providing you put the word Cork in front of the Eircode. If it was working properly the eircode or IE-eircode should find the target.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Google finds that because it finds the text string "T12 X00E Cork" on the CSO web site, not because Google have implemented a Eircode recognition system which is not working properly.

Seth Brundle

Donegal postman delivers letter to ‘your man with the glasses’...
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/donegal-postman-delivers-letter-to-your-man-with-the-glasses-1.2289890

SpaceTime

MarkK wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Google finds that because it finds the text string "T12 X00E Cork" on the CSO web site, not because Google have implemented a Eircode recognition system which is not working properly.

Google will find anything really.

I'd suspect any OCR software worth its salt could find a very uniform alphanumeric string too.

Also, the use of that "EN ISO 3166-1 Alpha 2" code (had to Google that), I could see it becoming political in some parts of Europe.

There's actually a whole codified Irish county lettering system in ISO!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_3166-2:IE

Can you imagine asking Northern Ireland residents for example to list:

0 Falls Road
GB - BELFAST BT12 XXX

Could be a tiny bit of a case of creating a problem for absolutely no reason.

Also where they are used, it's actually supposed to be 2-letter codes.

I've seen France and German addresses prefixed with F and D instead of FR and DE for example.

In Europe, it's fairly unnecessary.

The idea behind it originally was to stop confusion when you had countries with disputed areas / names.
For example, there is definitely the odd issue of mail ending up in the wrong country or someone struggling to recognise what the name of a country is in its local language.

ukoda

So if i remember correctly, there was a claim by loc8 or others that eircode was no good for tourists, as "tourist attractions don't get post"

did a little bit of looking, below are the top 10 paid and the top 10 free tourist attractions in Ireland (source)


Paid:
Guinness Storehouse: D08 VF8H
Dublin Zoo: D08 AC98
Cliffs of Moher: V95 KN9T
National Aquatic Centre: D15 A6WR
Book of Kells, TCD: D02 F306
Tayto Park: A84 EA02
St Patricks Cathedral: D08 H6X3
Fota Wildlife park: T45 CD93
Blarney Castle: T23 Y598
Kilmainham Goal: D08 T2X5

Free:
National Gallery of Ireland: D02 K303
National Botanic Gardens: D09 VY63
Farmleigh: D15 TD50
National Museum of Ireland, Archaeology: D02 FH48
Newbridge Silverware, Kildare: W12 HT62
Science Gallery: D02 AP03
National History Museum, Natural History: D02 F627
National Library: D02 A322
National Museum of Ireland, Collins Barracks: D07 XKV4
Chester Beaty Library: D02 AD92

This one didn't make the top 20 but i like it and the eircode points right to the entrance:
Mitchelstown Caves: E21 H920

and not to forget Loc8's favourite example of "Rock of Cashel won't have an eircode" well actually lads:
Rock of Cashel: E25 KX44

OU812

ukoda wrote: »

So if i remember correctly, there was a claim by loc8 or others that eircode was no good for tourists, as "tourist attractions don't get post"

did i ittle bit of looking, below are the top 10 paid and the top 10 free tourist attractions in Ireland (source)


Paid:
Guinness Storehouse: D08 VF8H
Dublin Zoo: D08 AC98
Cliffs of Moher: V95 KN9T
National Aquatic Centre: D15 A6WR
Book of Kells, TCD: D02 F306
Tayto Park: A84 EA02
St Patricks Cathedral: D08 H6X3
Fota Wildlife park: T45 CD93
Blarney Castle: T23 Y598
Kilmainham Goal: D08 T2X5

Free:
National Gallery of Ireland: D02 K303
National Botanic Gardens: D09 VY63
Farmleigh: D15 TD50
National Museum of Ireland, Archaeology: D02 FH48
Newbridge Silverware, Kildare: W12 HT62
Science Gallery: D02 AP03
National History Museum, Natural History: D02 F627
National Library: D02 A322
National Museum of Ireland, Collins Barracks: D07 XKV4
Chester Beaty Library: D02 AD92

This one didn't make the top 20 but i like it and the eircode points right to the entrance:
Mitchelstown Caves: E21 H920

and not to forget Loc8's favourite example of "Rock of Cashel won't have an eircode" well actually lads:
Rock of Cashel: E25 KX44

Perfect examples of why it will work, it'll take a while to become common place (& non compulsory use by official state bodies is a mistake), but people will use them.

We should actually try to pull together a comprehensive list of eircodes for tourist attractions to publish online.

sesswhat

It seems that public buildings like museums, Garda stations and hospitals tend to have Eircodes ending in two numbers.

marmurr1916

Impetus wrote: »

6) Eircode is still including the county name. No country with a postcode system needs a county name as part of the address.

You don't need to use any part of the address other than the Eircode if you post an item - the Eircode translates into a unique address.

Obviously it's kinda useful for the person who's going to be delivering the item to know what the result of that translation is, but obviously that's the same for every postcode system in the world...

Impetus wrote: »

7) A national embarrassment.

Go easy on yourself. :P

Impetus wrote: »

8)procrastinateive

Obligationeouseness isn't one of your stronger featrionuoneses, is it?

TheBustedFlush

ukoda wrote: »

So if i remember correctly, there was a claim by loc8 or others that eircode was no good for tourists, as "tourist attractions don't get post"

did i ittle bit of looking, below are the top 10 paid and the top 10 free tourist attractions in Ireland (source)


Paid:
Guinness Storehouse: D08 VF8H
Dublin Zoo: D08 AC98
Cliffs of Moher: V95 KN9T
National Aquatic Centre: D15 A6WR
Book of Kells, TCD: D02 F306
Tayto Park: A84 EA02
St Patricks Cathedral: D08 H6X3
Fota Wildlife park: T45 CD93
Blarney Castle: T23 Y598
Kilmainham Goal: D08 T2X5

Free:
National Gallery of Ireland: D02 K303
National Botanic Gardens: D09 VY63
Farmleigh: D15 TD50
National Museum of Ireland, Archaeology: D02 FH48
Newbridge Silverware, Kildare: W12 HT62
Science Gallery: D02 AP03
National History Museum, Natural History: D02 F627
National Library: D02 A322
National Museum of Ireland, Collins Barracks: D07 XKV4
Chester Beaty Library: D02 AD92

This one didn't make the top 20 but i like it and the eircode points right to the entrance:
Mitchelstown Caves: E21 H920

and not to forget Loc8's favourite example of "Rock of Cashel won't have an eircode" well actually lads:
Rock of Cashel: E25 KX44

Which is more odious:

1. A young person making fun of an older person
2. A strong person jeering at an invalid
3. The supposedly wise mocking a seeming fool?

ukoda

TheBustedFlush wrote: »

Which is more odious:

1. A young person making fun of an older person
2. A strong person jeering at an invalid
3. The supposedly wise mocking a seeming fool?

Sorry did you have something to say about eircode / postcodes or are you purely posting this as a dig at me.

I did not mock, make fun of or jeer anyone. The post of mine you quoted is entirely factual.

plodder

Nermal wrote: »

FTAI objections boil down to 'we don't want to pay for it'. Thankfully they were not listened to.

[rephrasing this]FTAI don't want to pay for Eircode, not because they want to get something that costs a lot of money for free, rather because they wanted a code design that would have been much cheaper to set up, and probably would therefore not have to be charged for. That's a big difference.

TheBustedFlush

ukoda wrote: »

Sorry did you have something to say about eircode / postcodes or are you purely posting this as a dig at me.

I did not mock, make fun of or jeer anyone. The post of mine you quoted is entirely factual.

No need to be sorry. I'm purely posting it as a dig at your writing on the topic of Eircode vs Loc8 code, since I don't know you.

ukoda

TheBustedFlush wrote: »

No need to be sorry. I'm purely posting it as a dig at your writing on the topic of Eircode vs Loc8 code, since I don't know you.

Well let me be clear, I don't have any vested interest in eircode. I do feel the need to refute the untruths that loc8code are claiming, the main driver for that is their behaviour on social media, specifically Twitter, they carry on so unprofessionally and childish it irritates me.

I have previously said on this thread that loc8 were a good company and that they could still have a place in the market if they made some more marketing effort and that I wished them the best. But now, I'm pretty disgusted by their lack of professionalism and I will challenge and refute their nonsense when it suits me to do so.

ukoda

plodder wrote: »

[rephrasing this]FTAI don't want to pay for Eircode, not because they want to get something that costs a lot of money for free, rather because they wanted a code design that would have been much cheaper to set up, and probably would therefore not have to be charged for. That's a big difference.

FYI the set up costs of ericode were a tiny fraction of the 27million, the bulk was getting the geodirectory and encoding databases (entirely necessary actions) the actual code development costs are broadly the same as the cost to set up loc8code from what I can gather.

And they should pay. The postcode has the ability to generate revenue and self finance itself, companies can gain efficiencies when they buy ericode so it's a win win. Otherwise me and you as tax payers will be footing the bill for maintenance of the code.

And another FYI: loc8 charge a licence fee to commercial companies to use the code, same as eircode will.

dr.fuzzenstein

What maps does Eircode use? Their satellite view of my house is much clearer that google maps. I can even see the car in the drive. I can even tell it's her MX5.
I checked the ordnance survey map and it's nowhere near as clear as either of them.

dr.fuzzenstein

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

What maps does Eircode use? Their satellite view of my house is much clearer that google maps. I can even see the car in the drive. I can even tell it's her MX5.

The same one as the geodirectory.

Calina

ukoda wrote: »

FYI the set up costs of ericode were a tiny fraction of the 27million, the bulk was getting the geodirectory and encoding databases (entirely necessary actions) the actual code development costs are broadly the same as the cost to set up loc8code from what I can gather.

And they should pay. The postcode has the ability to generate revenue and self finance itself, companies can gain efficiencies when they buy ericode so it's a win win. Otherwise me and you as tax payers will be footing the bill for maintenance of the code.

And another FYI: loc8 charge a licence fee to commercial companies to use the code, same as eircode will.

I'd be interested to know where you get all the information in para 1 particularly if you have no skin in the Eircode game.

There's no god given reason that a postal code system has to be paid for by users. I'm of the opinion that there would have been merit in making it a fully open system for the benefit of the country as a whole rather than it becoming a revenue generating exercise. As I understand it, there were options for minimising the maintenance of the code rather than building a 1:1 private database which needs intervention to keep up to date.

Quite a few things can be social goods and very often, they contribute significantly to the economic growth of the country.

In any case, I remain unconvinced that a system, which included "is not in line with best practice" in its evaluation was the best option for a postal code system for a country which was, to all intents and purposes, virginal white as far as postcodes are concerned. It was an opportunity to do something extremely good and forward thinking. And while it will be useful for locating individual buildings with an eircode, the fact remains that to do that, you need access to a network to decode. As a geographic tool, it's extremely blunt.

ukoda

Calina wrote: »

I'd be interested to know where you get all the information in para 1 particularly if you have no skin in the Eircode game.

That's a fair question, the answer is that the info is available publicly, I heard in a radio interview the head of eircode say that the development cost of the code was roughly 9% of the total cost, which equates to about 2.3 million, loc8 have said publicly they've spent 2 million on loc8codes development, so I draw the conclusion the set up costs were roughly the same. No insider knowledge needed.