National Postcodes to be introduced

FishOnABike

Originally Posted by FishOnABike
Can you explain which 9 it would fail on and why ? I'd see two as being superfluous and/or easily worked around and loc8 or any of the other coordinate based systems meeting the other 8.

TheBustedFlush wrote: »

Might be easier to explain the one it passes
Doesn't use place names in its code.

The rest are self-evident.

If it was self evident I wouldn't have asked and it should have been trivial for you to explain.

Since you haven't expanded on your claim that a geo-code fails on all but one requirement I'll explain why I think it passes all but two and why I think those two are questionable in the first place.

1. First three characters of the code must denote the An Post post-town for an address

Does not comply. This requirement is arguably anti-competitive as it gives an unfair advantage to An Post. With the deregulation of delivery services a post code should not be structured to favour the logistics organisation of one service provider over another.

It also has the problem of having fixed boundaries - an argument which is used against small area hierarchical based systems. Why repeat this problem at a larger scale.

Other service operators may route their deliveries differently. post codes should facilitate the elimination of post-town usage which favours the logisics organisation of one service proviser over another. One provider may service Mullinavat from Waterford, another from Kilkenny. A geo-code based system would allow all service providers allocate Mullinavat according to their own routing preferences without the possibility of it being misrouted by being under a Waterford eircode or post-town.

2. Incorporate the codes of the existing Dublin districts

Does not comply. Similar issue to 1, in terms of anti competitiveness and having fixed boundaries. If you look at the eircode finder the existing post code is included in the address, there is no need to duplicate it in the eircode. e.g. Dáil Éireann, Leinster House, Kildare Street, Dublin 2, D02 A272.

3. Avoid the use of place names in code

We both agree a geo-code complies with this.

4. The code not to be longer than ten characters, including any spaces

Complies. The geo-code solutions are seven to eight characters at the required resolution.

5. Be consistent and memorable

Complies. Geo-codes are arguably better here as nearby delivery points have similarities in their geo-code. Within a small delivery area only small differences have to be remembered and they are more intuitive.

6. Each code, on its own, must identify a postal address, incl. apartments

Debatable / arguably complies. This is arguable depending on whether it is required to identify a delivery point or each individual unit at a delivery point. For post delivery it is only necessary to identify the delivery point uniquely. There are already other resources which identify each unit e.g. property / land registry.

7. Be compatible and integrate with An Post's systems (i.e. use of post-towns)

Complies. As an alphanumeric code a geo-code is as readable by An Post's OCR sorting system as is the rest of the address. For delivery post should have the full address including town and post code. The part in brackets is a duplication of requirement 1.

8. Prioritise coding postal addresses but could be used for coding other places or points of information as long as it didn't negatively affect coding addresses

Complies. Arguably better than eircode as it can be used to code other places or points of information without negatively affecting coding addresses. Unofficial geo-codes can be used on the fly to reference any location without affecting the official canonical geo-code. eircodes cannot do this.

9. Be able to accommodate changes in capacity and technology

Complies. Arguably better than eircode as it is not constrained by the definition of existing boundaries - an argument which is used against small area hierarchical based systems.

10. Include the new postcodes in a new postal address database to be created from GeoDirectory.

Complies. There is no issue with adding a character field to an existing database.

TheBustedFlush wrote: »

If a scoring system or minimum requirement is used for a tender process, deciding as a bidder that something is "superfluous" is not going to work in getting you marks or even getting a required pass.

You appear to be making the assumption that I only have issue with whether a location based post code complies with the above requirements and not with any of the requirements themselves.

I was referring to the requirements (1. and 2.) being superfluous to the function of a post code. They anti-competitive and unnecessarily constrain the solution to a particular implementation which favours one operator over all others. Unless this was the initial intent I would contend both requirements are flawed as is any tender and implementation based on them. If it was the initial intent there are bigger questions to be asked.

Jack180570

You are a moderator here so with all due respect... given that the main benefit to most people of a postcode is to be able to get to a place easily with a sat nav. .. it would seem to be reasonable to expect this issue would have been sorted before the postcode was launched.

Regarding your suggestion to use through eircode finder site and it brings you to the door.... I can use a map to do it that way. It doesn't improve the situation.

You appear to be in favour of the new Eircode? If so and if it is appropriate to ask....
'considering it doesn't make it easier for the average person find a place, why are you pro Eircode when if Loc8 Code was chosen we could put the Loc8 Code into our sat navs and get to that place easily?

Grand_Rajnah wrote: »

Yet.

Give the sat nav companies/google maps a chance to implement something that was launched a fortnight ago.

Also - visit finder.eircode.ie, enter eircode, hit directions et viola - you're brought to the door.

G_R

Jack180570 wrote: »

You are a moderator here so with all due respect...

Just to clarify - I'm a Mod on a couple of other forums here on boards, but not on Infrastructure- just a regular poster here!

given that the main benefit to most people of a postcode is to be able to get to a place easily with a sat nav. .. it would seem to be reasonable to expect this issue would have been sorted before the postcode was launched.

To be honest, our opinions on what constitute the main benefits of a postal code differ wildly! Your example above is one, sure, but the main benefits as I see them come from being able to validate addresses, quicker & more accurate postal deliveries and as I'll go through below, solving the non-unique address issue we have in Ireland.

Regarding your suggestion to use through eircode finder site and it brings you to the door.... I can use a map to do it that way. It doesn't improve the situation.

True enough if you love in 17 Example Drive, Example's Town, Dublin 12

My dad though lives down in Kilkenny in the middle of no where. The road he's on is about 2km long, and there's maybe 20/30 houses on the road either side. Apart from the person's name - their address is the exact same, but to make it even better, it doesn't even mention the road they live on - it's literally:

GR's Dad
Townland
Bigger town 10k Away
Co. Kilkenny

Good look entering that into google maps and finding it.

Once Google Maps and SatNavs etc support it (which I'm sure they will, Google maps already buy the GeoDirectory (the Database Eircode is built on) it would be very simple for them to add on the eircodes) it'll be a matter of entering the code and hitting go.

I completely agree with you that it should have been sorted in advance, but c'est la vie. I've no doubt it won't take much longer.

Once these are implemented on Google Maps - every website which bases their mapping function on a Google Maps API will then also support them, again giving me extra function to the code.

You appear to be in favour of the new Eircode? If so and if it is appropriate to ask....
'considering it doesn't make it easier for the average person find a place, why are you pro Eircode when if Loc8 Code was chosen we could put the Loc8 Code into our sat navs and get to that place easily?

I'm gonna have to disagree again here - it does make it easier, as per my example above. Absolutely a loc8 code would get you there as well, but no more accurately or quickly than loc8.

You then also have the issue of multiple possible loc8s per property - to use my dads house as an example again, it's a big house on a fair bit of land - I reckon you'd probably get 7 or 8 "valid" codes for his house. This has implications for fraud prevention.

Then what about a small semi D, and they both share part of the same loc8 code - who gets to use it then?

Bear in mind, your SatNav would also need to support loc8 - I know one of the companies does (garmin or TomTom I think), but I just tried there on Google Maps and Apple Maps - no results found when you enter a loc8 code!

You seem to be fixated on postcodes being a tool to give you directions - while this is a function, there is so much more which also needs to be considered, and so many more potential uses for
it.

clewbays

Jack180570 wrote: »

the general public cannot put eircode into a sat nav and navigate to the eircode address. ... that's one of the major benefits of a postcode to the public. ...

Let's hope this is only true for a short period, hard to understand why Eircode don't use their website to communicate on their plans and intentions. I wouldn't buy a car from them

August should see some general post starting to arrive with an Eircode in the address. Could someone send the FTAI Eircode to the European Commission!

plodder

clewbays wrote: »

The way chosen would be determined by the location of the new build and the new access roads.

Agreed

There is no way that any of the existing houses could remain in the same small area as they would not be consistent with 2011 e.g. the demographic profile of the residents would have changed as some 2011 dwellings would no longer be included in the original small area.

Why not? The demographic profile has nothing to do with it. They are just groupings of houses.

Say the new build was at the bottom left of the area and the access was from Garyduff Drive or Viewpoint, you have four choices.

a) add the new build to the existing big area. There's nowhere near 200 houses in it. This is the most likely scenario and means no existing Eircodes change.

b) create a new area for the new build. Number of existing Eircodes affected? Zero

c) extend the existing area that Garyduff is in, to include the new build. Number of existing Eircodes affected? Zero

d) split the big area in two. This would affect a lot of existing Eircodes. So, I don't see why it would be contemplated.

Even if areas do need to be split, how do know we that people will care all that much? Was anyone asked if the minor inconvenience was worth it for having a meaningful structured code?

Sam Russell

TheChizler wrote: »

It's also amazing how some people expect full 3rd party integration 2 weeks after it being made official.

It might be 2 weeks since the Eircode was made 'official' but it is 6 years since this thread started, and it is a long time since the 'Spring 2015 Launch' which was loudly trumpeted, or even the 'Early 2015' launch.

There was no reason for all the secrecy either. Why no official map published of the routing codes?

ukoda

Jack180570 wrote: »

Same kind of amazement one would suffer if one purchased a new car to be told that one could not drive it away until the garage figured out how to get the car working.

Did all mapping and navigation support loc8 from day one? Were you able to drive that car out of the garage of day one with support for everything alr day there? No.

So it's been 5 years since loc8 launched, it's great you can just pop it into google maps now....oh wait, you still can't? After 5 years!

I'll just put it into my new TomTom...oh wait, can't do that either, after 5 years!

But don't worry!! Loc8 is a FREE code and costs me nothing to use, so I'll just download the point8 app....oh wait, that costs €5....and I can't use it to navigate?! After 5 years!

clewbays

plodder wrote: »

They are just groupings of houses.?

They were created as contiguous groups of houses respecting natural and physical boundaries. How can you compare a small area's deprivation status over time if it no longer essentially contains the same buildings.

flushed busted

TheChizler wrote: »

It's also amazing how some people expect full 3rd party integration 2 weeks after it being made official.

Amazing indeed if efforts to secure participation only started 2 weeks ago. Was not the eircode design signed off and publicly announced in April of 2014?

Would not you imagine that plans for interaction with relevant technology partners were included in a tender submission & be high on the action agenda when the contract was awarded (Dec 13)

The perspective of a business analyst would no doubt be that efforts were spurned in favour of a wait and see approach. The conclusion of such an analysis could only be that a representative bedding in period will be required to complete the wait and see assessment and perception, consumer demand & ease of implementation will shape the outcomes which may not be possible until well into 2016. This no doubt will be further handicapped by the current absence of a VAR infrastructure which appears also to suggest the adoption of wait and see approach amongst wider commercial interests also.

All of this appears to be an extension of the protracted negotiations before the contract was awarded and perhaps we can expect more of the same in terms of expectations, delays & disappointments. Readers of this thread will no doubt continue to be treated to doubts, deliberations and design alternatives for some time to come.

flushed busted

TheBustedFlush wrote: »

The actual final design criteria ruled out a number of approaches/code offerings. These criteria were:

1. First three characters of the code must denote the An Post post-town for an address
2. Incorporate the codes of the existing Dublin districts
3. Avoid the use of place names in code
4. The code not to be longer than ten characters, including any spaces
5. Be consistent and memorable
6. Each code, on its own, must identify a postal address, incl. apartments
7. Be compatible and integrate with An Post's systems (i.e. use of post-towns)
8. Prioritise coding postal addresses but could be used for coding other places or points of information as long as it didn't negatively affect coding addresses
9. Be able to accommodate changes in capacity and technology
10. Include the new postcodes in a new postal address database to be created from GeoDirectory.

TheBustedFlush wrote: »

Not similar - the same. I read them on that site. /QUOTE]

One might conclude therefore that your "actual" may not indeed be factual!

plodder

clewbays wrote: »

They were created as contiguous groups of houses respecting natural and physical boundaries. How can you compare a small area's deprivation status over time if it no longer essentially contains the same buildings.

If this is so important to the CSO then it kind of blows the whole argument about changing areas out of the water, as they don't want areas to be split or added to.

Fair enough then. The second option I suggested above doesn't do that. The boundary of the big area changes but not the houses that are contained in it.

flushed busted

TheBustedFlush wrote: »

The actual final design criteria ruled out a number of approaches/code offerings. These criteria were:

1. First three characters of the code must denote the An Post post-town for an address
2. Incorporate the codes of the existing Dublin districts
3. Avoid the use of place names in code
4. The code not to be longer than ten characters, including any spaces
5. Be consistent and memorable
6. Each code, on its own, must identify a postal address, incl. apartments
7. Be compatible and integrate with An Post's systems (i.e. use of post-towns)
8. Prioritise coding postal addresses but could be used for coding other places or points of information as long as it didn't negatively affect coding addresses
9. Be able to accommodate changes in capacity and technology
10. Include the new postcodes in a new postal address database to be created from GeoDirectory.

TheBustedFlush wrote: »

Not similar - the same. I read them on that site.

One might conclude therefore that your "actual" may not indeed be factual!

Sam Russell

TheBustedFlush wrote: »

The recommendations from the Postcode Working Group are recommendations - not precise design criteria.

The actual final design criteria ruled out a number of approaches/code offerings. These criteria were:


6. Each code, on its own, must identify a postal address, incl. apartments


.

I would dispute that Eircode solves this particular requirement.

How can you identify which code applies to which flat without access to the flat number which is not part of Eircode and is unlikely to be on the letterbox? And even if it was on the letterbox, it would be in random order - so in a block of 40 or 50 apartments, how would you find it?

dr.fuzzenstein

ukoda wrote: »

Did all mapping and navigation support loc8 from day one? Were you able to drive that car out of the garage of day one with support for everything alr day there? No.

So it's been 5 years since loc8 launched, it's great you can just pop it into google maps now....oh wait, you still can't? After 5 years!

I'll just put it into my new TomTom...oh wait, can't do that either, after 5 years!

But don't worry!! Loc8 is a FREE code and costs me nothing to use, so I'll just download the point8 app....oh wait, that costs €5....and I can't use it to navigate?! After 5 years!

And the silence from the loc8 guys is deafening...

oscarBravo

Whatever about receiving post with an Eircode on it, I just sent my first item with one.

dr.fuzzenstein

Sam Russell wrote: »

I would dispute that Eircode solves this particular requirement.

How can you identify which code applies to which flat without access to the flat number which is not part of Eircode and is unlikely to be on the letterbox? And even if it was on the letterbox, it would be in random order - so in a block of 40 or 50 apartments, how would you find it?

How does loc8 do it?
In the end, a delivery person cannot know what way the letterboxes are laid out, I'm guessing there is no standard.
Whatever code system we use, we still need the rest of the address, because if you don't put your name or apartment number on your letterbox, which is one of 50 in no particular order, no one could expect to find it, unless we have GPS that are accurate enough to distinguish the correct letterbox and work indoors!
Eircode does identify the apartment, but what if the letterboxes are in one cluster in the lobby? One may have to look up a database, but this cannot say 2nd letterbox from the top and 4th on the right.
This argument is made assuming that there is no address on the letter, no name and number on the letterbox and no number on any of the other letterboxes. And postie is not used to allow his own brain and initiative. Yet another theoretical only scenario.
And how is that different to any other postcode?

Sam Russell

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

How does loc8 do it?

It does not. I am not a fan of loc8 and have no interest in it. I would have preferred a postcode system that was hierarchical down to the small area level. After that, the address should be used (in unique address areas) and some other code added for non-unique areas. - not fussed how that is done as non unique areas are less than 200 houses per small area.

My preference would be a pure numeric code based on the Eircom STD codes - modified as required to be logical.

Sam Russell

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

How does loc8 do it?
In the end, a delivery person cannot know what way the letterboxes are laid out, I'm guessing there is no standard.
Whatever code system we use, we still need the rest of the address, because if you don't put your name or apartment number on your letterbox, which is one of 50 in no particular order, no one could expect to find it, unless we have GPS that are accurate enough to distinguish the correct letterbox and work indoors!
Eircode does identify the apartment, but what if the letterboxes are in one cluster in the lobby? One may have to look up a database, but this cannot say 2nd letterbox from the top and 4th on the right.
This argument is made assuming that there is no address on the letter, no name and number on the letterbox and no number on any of the other letterboxes. And postie is not used to allow his own brain and initiative. Yet another theoretical only scenario.
And how is that different to any other postcode?

Eircode is trumpeted as being able to go down to the letterbox. This is impossible as the example I gave demonstrates. Most postcodes worldwide require a name/no to go the last distance.

I am just pointing that out. No postcode can do it.

BarryD

Eircode has little to do with delivering letters or parcels or getting ambulances to your door - these are just ancillary. The real push behind Eircode it seems to me, is in the area of public administration. This government had a real problem when it came to introducing property tax in recent years as there was no complete database of habitable residences in the country. The last attempt to do this was in the 1850s with Griffith's Tenement Valuation. This Eircode scheme will clearly identify habitable dwellings, since a rough definition is a building that receives mail, as opposed to ruins. That is the real reason we are having it, as far as I can see.

recedite

Grand_Rajnah wrote: »

Yet.

Give the sat nav companies/google maps a chance to implement something that was launched a fortnight ago.

Also - visit finder.eircode.ie, enter eircode, hit directions et viola - you're brought to the door.

Two points here;

1. I don't see any "directions" prompt when I look at the eircode finder on my PC. Maybe this is only a function on your smartphone?

2. Lets suppose the sat nav companies incorporated the eircode locations into their map data. From the list of tourist sites mentioned a few pages back, Tayto Park is at A84 EA02. But this refers only to a centroid, being the postal address of the administrartive building. Not the main entrance, which is presumably the information that the owners of the attraction would really like to impart to the tourist.
So my new sat-nav or smartphone navigates me to the nearest point on the public road to this centroid, which is somebody's private house at a T-junction a few hundred metres NW of the entrance gates.
OK there is a "fix" available. Tayto could put a large sign on this person's house telling them which way to go and how far. Then pay them a fee for the ongoing inconvenience. But this is illustrative of why the eircode solution is inflexible, expensive and sub-optimal.

dr.fuzzenstein

Sam Russell wrote: »

It does not. I am not a fan of loc8 and have no interest in it. I would have preferred a postcode system that was hierarchical down to the small area level. After that, the address should be used (in unique address areas) and some other code added for non-unique areas. - not fussed how that is done as non unique areas are less than 200 houses per small area.

My preference would be a pure numeric code based on the Eircom STD codes - modified as required to be logical.

That is a bit of an unfortunate name.
But in the end, when faced with a huge cluster of mailboxes in the entrance lobby of an apartment block, no code can distinguish a single mailbox.

edit:
Eircode does give you a list of apartments for an apartment block, the apartment block seems to be marked with one central red dot that covers all the apartments within, each with it's own Eircode.
Now, being realistic here, for Eircode to have a map of the internal structure of every apartment block in the country and a guide to the location to every single apartment is just unworkable and silly to expect that. They do identify single apartments, but it is still up to the owner and the occupants of the apartment block to have their door and letterbox clearly marked as well as signposts in the apartments in order to get around inside. Putting that on Eircode, or any other code, should simply not be expected.
A lot of people criticize Eircodes along the lines of "but what if I only have an Eircode, there are no numbers, markings and signs in an apartment block, no names, no one to ask and I don't have a phone number for the occupant, also I am not allowed to use the address or my own brain and initiative?
Well then I'm afraid you are rightly stuffed.

Tenshot

TheBustedFlush wrote:

6. Each code, on its own, must identify a postal address, incl. apartments

Sam Russell wrote: »

I would dispute that Eircode solves this particular requirement.

How can you identify which code applies to which flat without access to the flat number which is not part of Eircode and is unlikely to be on the letterbox? And even if it was on the letterbox, it would be in random order - so in a block of 40 or 50 apartments, how would you find it?

It seems straightforward to me. A single Eircode, on its own, is enough to obtain any individual postal address. Of course, this requires access to the Eircode Address Database (ECAD) which then gives you all sorts of information about the address including house/apartment number, GPS location, etc.

If someone gives me an Eircode, that's all I need to determine pretty much everything about the postal address. Contrast this with the UK Postcode where someone needs to give me the postcode AND a house number to uniquely identify an address, or the US where a ZIP code (even the 9-digit ZIP+4 version) still needs a street name and number to be sure.

If I was to change one thing about Eircode, it would have been to add some sort of simple checksum to weed out incorrectly typed codes automatically without having to resort to a database lookup.

MBSnr

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

But in the end, when faced with a huge cluster of mailboxes in the entrance lobby of an apartment block, no code can distinguish a single mailbox.

As you say, Eircode, in my mind, wasn't designed* to address that issue anyhow - being as apartment blocks have apartment numbers and letters have full addresses. Of course there's really no denying that it was primarily designed to apply to rural addresses so that Gov. functions - property tax, water charges etc can be applied in a simpler and easier manner**.

As an offshoot from this is of course a postcode system that I don't think is so bad. I was talking to an American and he was impressed that every property has an individual code.

*some say 'designed' is more the operative word

**Now some say - 'tis only a scam for the Gov to get money from you for water charges etc. But then again is it fair that only some should pay and others not due to address anomalies? I don't think so.

As regards cost - it's small fry in the big scheme of the money spent/wasted by the Gov. (Any Gov. by the way).

What is it? €27m? Say it's €50m over 10 yrs.
1.9m tax payers. 50m/1.9m=€26 ea. or €2.60 per yr. Knock me out.

Sam Russell

What I am pointing out is that while Eircode is a complete address when looked up on a paid for database, it is not an address in its own right. Nor, having used it on a satnav or smartphone and having delivered you to the entrance, will it find an apartment as the apartment or house will not show the eircode. If the design wanted this, it has clearly failed.

It is just a PPS number for houses. Just as a PPS number will give an address on the appropriate database, so will Eircode.

I think that discussing the failings in the design at this stage is a bit of a waste of time. We will have to await the redesign or scrapping.

Sam Russell

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

That is a bit of an unfortunate name.

I assume you are referring to STI - infections rather than diseases. STD stands for Subscriber Trunk Dialling - introduced in the 1960s I think.

bluesteel

Sam Russell wrote: »

What I am pointing out is that while Eircode is a complete address when looked up on a paid for database, it is not an address in its own right. Nor, having used it on a satnav or smartphone and having delivered you to the entrance, will it find an apartment as the apartment or house will not show the eircode. If the design wanted this, it has clearly failed.

It is just a PPS number for houses. Just as a PPS number will give an address on the appropriate database, so will Eircode.

I think that discussing the failings in the design at this stage is a bit of a waste of time. We will have to await the redesign or scrapping.

It's a waste of time alright, because people are soo invested in their own prejudices and hobby horses.

scrapping?

I never realised what a bunch of moaners Irish people are. Everyone is now an expert on postcodes just like everyone was an expert on water all of a sudden after ignoring it for years

It's said that in a democracy people get the government they deserve. We give cranks, NIMBYs and and know nothing detractors far too much attention in Ireland and we have a shambles of a planning system and infrastructure as a result. We deserve it. How depressing.

/rant

plodder

recedite wrote: »

Two points here;

1. I don't see any "directions" prompt when I look at the eircode finder on my PC. Maybe this is only a function on your smartphone?

Yes, it only offers that option with mobile browsers

2. Lets suppose the sat nav companies incorporated the eircode locations into their map data. From the list of tourist sites mentioned a few pages back, Tayto Park is at A84 EA02. But this refers only to a centroid, being the postal address of the administrartive building. Not the main entrance, which is presumably the information that the owners of the attraction would really like to impart to the tourist.
So my new sat-nav or smartphone navigates me to the nearest point on the public road to this centroid, which is somebody's private house at a T-junction a few hundred metres NW of the entrance gates.
OK there is a "fix" available. Tayto could put a large sign on this person's house telling them which way to go and how far. Then pay them a fee for the ongoing inconvenience. But this is illustrative of why the eircode solution is inflexible, expensive and sub-optimal.

The other "fix" could be to offer additional Eircodes to people who want them .... but ... ... these databases don't maintain themselves unfortunately, so there will be an unavoidable (annual) charge. We have to cover our costs and earn a crust at the end of the day etc etc. ....

BailMeOut

Sam Russell wrote: »

I think that discussing the failings in the design at this stage is a bit of a waste of time. We will have to await the redesign or scrapping.

What are these failings? Eircode does EXACTLY what it is supposed to do.

Sam Russell

BailMeOut wrote: »

What are these failings? Eircode does EXACTLY what it is supposed to do.

Please keep up at the back!

dr.fuzzenstein

bluesteel wrote: »

It's a waste of time alright, because people are soo invested in their own prejudices and hobby horses.

scrapping?

I never realised what a bunch of moaners Irish people are. Everyone is now an expert on postcodes just like everyone was an expert on water all of a sudden after ignoring it for years

It's said that in a democracy people get the government they deserve. We give cranks, NIMBYs and and know nothing detractors far too much attention in Ireland and we have a shambles of a planning system and infrastructure as a result. We deserve it. How depressing.

/rant

I can absolutely guarantee you that if Eircode had been a suggestion by an independent think-tank, rather than a government agency, the same people ripping it to shreds right now would have tripped over their own tongues and widdled the carpet over it like an overexcited puppy. And in a parallel universe, where Eircode had been identical to Loc8 and Loc8 had the Eircode design these same people would still rip Eircode to shreds. Because it's not about right and wrong, it is about self interest, towing the line, looking after your own patch and following diktat.
The current government had to clean up a stinking mess of gigantic proportions and their reward is that people will probably either vote back the last shower of **** or some lefty-looney birdbrains that will ruin us completely, Greek style.
Right now it is fashionable to stand there and shout "Ah dem shoite gubbermint, dem's all incompertent, dat's what they are!" and this will have to be shouted for every single thing that is even loosely connected to them. Because in Ireland we don't care about what is genuinely best, we only care about our own little patch and lining our own pockets and if that means shouting down anything and everything, that's OK then, how much is in it for me? The secret of mud slinging is to keep flinging it and never stop, something will stick and then we get the boot in.
Doesn't matter if a proposal is good, it comes from the wrong people and therefore will have to be brought down any way necessary.

/rant also