National Postcodes to be introduced

MBSnr

plodder wrote: »

up to 15 times a day. I'd say most couriers would make more deliveries than that per day.

Maybe. Although that is assuming that they are all unnamed/unnumbered rural ones. Do, say Fastway, drivers get given a company phone? If so I doubt it's a smartphone. Anyhow I'd not be impressed if I had to use my own phone throughout the day. Perhaps this may also be a factor behind it. Not so much that Eircodes are 'useless' but that certain companies do not equip their drivers with a device that would let them deliver with an Eircode anyhow.

moyners

Eircode's list of approved service providers is up:

https://www.eircode.ie/business/feature

larchill

There's quiet a few of them

Sam Russell

Only four Irish ones if you ignore those with an Eircode of D08 XY00.

SpaceTime

Sam Russell wrote: »

Only four Irish ones if you ignore those with an Eircode of D08 XY00.

One of the handy features of eircode - detecting duplication in databases

marmurr1916

moyners wrote: »

Eircode's list of approved service providers is up:

https://www.eircode.ie/business/feature

Several British companies there. One of them, mapmechanics, offers drive times and routings products. Very handy for field sales and delivery.

GJG

GJG wrote: »

The army of Loc8 sock puppets supporters have been vocal in their claims that Eircode will be ignored or not adopted, along with claiming 400,000 people have downloaded a Loc8 code. I don’t dispute the last figure, but I know that I am several dozen of them, so I’m sceptical about exactly how much they are used after they are generated.

So then let’s see how it’s going.

Dublin city centre has the greatest concentration of businesses in the country and obviously people putting their Eircode on their website would be an early indication of acceptance. Obviously some business websites only get updated rarely, so this will take time to bed in.

Eircode is less than a month old, and Loc8 has been going for about seven years, so Loc8 have a clear advantage there, let’s see how well they have used it. The Loc8 code NP6 is roughly analogous to Dublin 1, though it contains a good chunk of Dublin 2, as well as elements of Dublin 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 9 and 15. The Loc8 code NP5 takes in the rest of Dublin 2, along with more chunks of Dublin 4,6, 6W, 8, and 14. But let’s be generous to Loc8 and only compare NP6 and NP5 with Eircodes D01 and D02.

• Search for the exact string “Dublin D01”
• Search for the exact string “Dublin D02”
• Search for the exact string “Dublin NP6”
• Search for the exact string “Dublin NP5”

The two Eircode results, between them, as of my searches, give 858 and 2,870 results. I know there will be some false positives in there, along with a load of missed references where people put in a comma or placed the Eircode in a slightly different position, but I'm applying the same criteria for Eircode and Loc8, so that doesn’t make much difference to the relative results.

For Loc8, the NP6 code, covering the whole of Dublin 1 and a chunk of city-centre Dublin 2, there are seven results. (Of those seven, four are the exact same Loc8 code.) The search for NP5, covering the rest of Dublin 2, plus a large swathe of Dublin 4,6, 6W, 8, and 14, the most densely-internetted place in the country, there is one result, which appears to be a coincidence, just junk text on an irrelevant page.

I’m sure there are false positives and repeats in the Eircode figure too, so let’s give them the benefit of the doubt, so the figure is a total of 3,728 for Eircode to eight for Loc8, a ratio of 466:1.

It's worth revisiting this post. The loc8 results have basically not changed (this post shows up) but the Eircode counts have gone up sharply. There are now 1,200 hits for "Dublin D01" and 5,350 for "Dublin D02", 6,550 in total. That's nearly a doubling of the figures in 10 days.

I think that it's fair to say that the confident predictions that Eircode would be ignored were monumentally wrong. If Eircodes get in six weeks than 800 times the web profile of the equivalent Loc8 codes got in seven years, there is simply no comparison.

Aimead

GJG wrote: »

If Eircodes get in six weeks than 800 times the web profile of the equivalent Loc8 codes got in seven years, there is simply no comparison.

Holy shoite that is seriously disingenuous. Had Loc8 been given anywhere near the same support that Eircode got, such as getting posted to every household in the country, then you might have something in the vicinity of a comparison. You’re right in that there is no comparison, but not for the dishonesty you give here.

Pick any code and, along with a government supported advertising campaign, have it posted to every household in the country – how it would it not gain massively more web profile than any pre-existing non-government supported code????

Take your pick of the most dishonest claims made by Eircode detractors – the above is just as dishonest.

Bayberry

GJG wrote: »

It's worth revisiting this post. The loc8 results have basically not changed (this post shows up) but the Eircode counts have gone up sharply. There are now 1,200 hits for "Dublin D01" and 5,350 for "Dublin D02", 6,550 in total. That's nearly a doubling of the figures in 10 days.

The irony is, of course, that businesses in D01 and D02 have absolutely no need for an eircode, as they already have addresses that already work on Satnavs and have been fully recognized by both An Post and courier and delivery companies for donkeys years.

It would be interesting, though, to run a script against those hits and see if any of them are wrong.

It'd only take a couple of years at 15 free lookups a day.

GJG

Aimead wrote: »

Holy shoite that is seriously disingenuous. Had Loc8 been given anywhere near the same support that Eircode got, such as getting posted to every household in the country, then you might have something in the vicinity of a comparison. You’re right in that there is no comparison, but not for the dishonesty you give here.

Pick any code and, along with a government supported advertising campaign, have it posted to every household in the country – how it would it not gain massively more web profile than any pre-existing non-government supported code????

Take your pick of the most dishonest claims made by Eircode detractors – the above is just as dishonest.

Why disingenuous? Are you suggesting that some of the readers haven't noticed the Eircode promotion, and are thereby mislead?

I am replying to a specific claim by Loc8 supporters, that Eircode would be ignored and not used by the public. It is worth noting that Loc8 has had about 70 times longer to promote itself, and Eircode is already more than 800 times further ahead. If you don't think it is valid to mention that, then fine; others will disagree

Bayberry wrote: »

It would be interesting, though, to run a script against those hits and see if any of them are wrong.

It'd only take a couple of years at 15 free lookups a day.

Why would people put incorrect Eircodes on their website? It would take 10 seconds for each of them to check. Are you really that desperately grasping for something to complain about?

Aimead

GJG wrote: »

Why disingenuous?

You’re comparing the results of a multi-million government-sponsored national advertising campaign to what an SME has managed. Forget apples and oranges, this is States and SME companies.

It is worth noting that Loc8 has had about 70 times longer to promote itself, and Eircode is already more than 800 times further ahead. If you don't think it is valid to mention that, then fine; others will disagree.

Let’s ask that question to others in the thread – can anyone else, with hand on heart, honestly say that comparing the marketing outcome of a multi-million government-sponsored national advertising campaign with what an SME can do has anything whatsoever to say about the strengths/weaknesses of any codes involved?

marmurr1916

If Loc8 codes are so great, why is it still an SME? It should surely be a major force in the geocoding sector, not just in Ireland but internationally, by now?

Bayberry

GJG wrote: »

Why would people put incorrect Eircodes on their website? It would take 10 seconds for each of them to check. Are you really that desperately grasping for something to complain about?

Who is complaining? You're the one making a big deal about the fact that thousands of businesses have wasted time and money adding an eircode to their website, even though it is of absolutely no value to them, or to their customers, because they already have unique addresses (which is also why they don't have Loc8 codes).

It obviously demonstrates that the money being spent on our behalf is working, even though it also demonstrates that it isn't being spent to explain to people what the eircode is actually for. Because it's definitely not for delivering stuff to businesses in D01 and D02.

As for why you'd check for errors? Because you would expect 10,000 people to make the occasional mistake. One of the main arguments in favour of eircodes is all the added value you get by making queries against a database, so, as a techie, my very first instinct on seeing a suggested list of 10,000+ eircodes in D01 and D02 was to parse that list and see if anything interesting pops out, but of course, you can't do that unless you pay for lookups.

And the kneejerk response of an eircode supporter is completey defensive - "don't look at that, you might find it's not as good as we said it would be". Makes me wonder what you're trying to hide. (Oh look, another DOB reference )

dr.fuzzenstein

You still need Eircodes in towns and cities on Ireland. Usually you would look for Something Street 35. There will be a Something Avenue, Drive and Mews. Finally you will find Something Street is off Other Street on the other side of town. When you get there only 3 houses will have a number. So you count up only to find that numbers on that road are completely random. And they only go to 34. Look it up on Eircode and you will find the house you're looking for, around the corner from 17 and on another street altogether, because a lot of the time Irish street naming and numbering doesn't follow any recognisable or logical pattern.

Bayberry

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

You still need Eircodes in towns and cities on Ireland. Usually you would look for Something Street 35. There will be a Something Avenue, Drive and Mews. Finally you will find Something Street is off Other Street on the other side of town. When you get there only 3 houses will have a number. So you count up only to find that numbers on that road are completely random. And they only go to 34. Look it IP kn

Here's a link to Google Maps. Show me a example in D01 or D02 where Google Maps will deliver you to the wrong address.

(I have no doubt that examples exist. This is a "no hand-waving, please" challenge, not a claim that Google maps is 100% accurate in Dublin).

ukoda

Bayberry wrote: »

Here's a link to Google Maps. Show me a example in D01 or D02 where Google Maps will deliver you to the wrong address.

(I have no doubt that examples exist. This is a "no hand-waving, please" challenge, not a claim that Google maps is 100% accurate in Dublin).

I think it's more the ease of use than the necessity that is eircodes advantage, when the sat navs are on board and google maps, it's just going to be so easy to get an eircode from a website and pop it into google maps without having to type the address.

It's a pain in the ass to put an address into a sat nav, it's much easier to put a 7 character code in and get the address on screen and click confirm.

MBSnr

marmurr1916 wrote: »

If Loc8 codes are so great, why is it still an SME? It should surely be a major force in the geocoding sector, not just in Ireland but internationally, by now?

Perhaps they just lost their way....

bluesteel

marmurr1916 wrote: »

If Loc8 codes are so great, why is it still an SME? It should surely be a major force in the geocoding sector, not just in Ireland but internationally, by now?

send him a tweet and ask him. I'm sure you'll get a cogent, well thought out response

bluesteel

MBSnr wrote: »

Perhaps they just lost their way....

too busy making stupid YouTube clips

Bayberry

marmurr1916 wrote: »

If Loc8 codes are so great, why is it still an SME? It should surely be a major force in the geocoding sector, not just in Ireland but internationally, by now?

Why the fixation on Loc8?

You do understand that the concept of a geo-code isn't something exclusive to Loc8, it's just one particular implementation that was designed with the physical size of the island of Ireland in mind? I'm not sure why you think that an algorithm that can be written out in a few lines of code would be enough to make a company a "major force in the geocoding sector".

cnocbui

I have just had my first ever experience using these wonderful new postcodes. Parcel ended up in Mayo instead of Tip. How much are these things costing?

ukoda

cnocbui wrote: »

I have just had my first ever experience using these wonderful new postcodes. Parcel ended up in Mayo instead of Tip. How much are these things costing?

Hmmm, I'd be more worried how much the courier company pay their staff if they can't read an address.

cnocbui

ukoda wrote: »

Hmmm, I'd be more worried how much the courier company pay their staff if they can't read an address.

If people could read addresses, we wouldn't need post codes.

ukoda

cnocbui wrote: »

If people could read addresses, we wouldn't need post codes.

Erm, yes we would

ukoda

cnocbui wrote: »

I have just had my first ever experience using these wonderful new postcodes. Parcel ended up in Mayo instead of Tip. How much are these things costing?

If the address and eircode were correct then it's entirely the fault of the courier that your package ended up in the wrong county. Not the postcodes fault.

cnocbui

ukoda wrote: »

Erm, yes we would

I was being facetious.

Bayberry

ukoda wrote: »

If the address and eircode were correct then it's entirely the fault of the courier that your package ended up in the wrong county. Not the postcodes fault.

So when there's a screwup it's not eircodes fault, but when something goes right it is eircodes fault?

That's handy.

ukoda

Bayberry wrote: »

So when there's a screwup it's not eircodes fault, but when something goes right it is eircodes fault?

That's handy.

Are you seriously trying to justify a courier having a correct address and postcode but failing to deliver a package to the right location?

I'm sure there will be ericode screw ups, that's life, this appears not to be one of them tho.

alentejo

Something fishy going on here

I noted the Providers on the Eircode website

If you look at the Gamma / autoaddress companies. Would be nice if you could get an Eircode to help match your address D08 XY00?? specially if your primary product is Geodata!!

According to the Eircode FAQ's the following applies
Q Can an eircode be personalised?
A:All addresses will be assigned an Eircode which is attached to the address rather than the individual and it cannot be changed or personalised. If you move house, you don’t take the Eircode with you.

marmurr1916

Bayberry wrote: »

Who is complaining? You're the one making a big deal about the fact that thousands of businesses have wasted time and money adding an eircode to their website, even though it is of absolutely no value to them, or to their customers, because they already have unique addresses (which is also why they don't have Loc8 codes).

It obviously demonstrates that the money being spent on our behalf is working, even though it also demonstrates that it isn't being spent to explain to people what the eircode is actually for. Because it's definitely not for delivering stuff to businesses in D01 and D02.

As for why you'd check for errors? Because you would expect 10,000 people to make the occasional mistake. One of the main arguments in favour of eircodes is all the added value you get by making queries against a database, so, as a techie, my very first instinct on seeing a suggested list of 10,000+ eircodes in D01 and D02 was to parse that list and see if anything interesting pops out, but of course, you can't do that unless you pay for lookups.

And the kneejerk response of an eircode supporter is completey defensive - "don't look at that, you might find it's not as good as we said it would be". Makes me wonder what you're trying to hide. (Oh look, another DOB reference )

As a techie, you should be aware that someone's brought out a little bit of free code that's able to bypass the 15 per day limit on free eircode lookups.

It's mentioned a good deal earlier in this thread - enjoy looking it up! :P