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National Postcodes to be introduced
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Jack180570 wrote: »An Post don't need it uses it, the courier companies can't afford it use it and it doesn't works on satnav so general public can't can use it. ... Remind me again who is it of use to? ???
Some inaccuracies were detected in your post. Fixed that for you.0 -
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The first thing to note is that hierarchical and sequential are two different characteristics. A postcode can be hierarchical, but not sequential.Yes, you are correct, UK codes are increasingly similar with increasing proximity, but the UK addressing system is different. Every road - even in the back end of the Sperrin Mountains - has a name displayed and every house has a number.
I base my opinion on my experience. I grew up on a road that had a townland name that it shared with maybe five other roads, and no numbers. This situation is very common. Not only did the houses have no address elements to distinguish them, they also were frequently built by splitting up farms to make plots for sons, grandsons, and cousins; so the family names and often even the first names were repeated within the same address.
Pre-Eircode, one postie here said the strategy was to ring the doorbell and say 'Are you expecting a letter from the VHI?', or they had to just guess, and hope that misdelivered letters would be passed on. The privacy consequences where, say, financial documents were sent to the wrong member of the same family are obvious.
A hierarchical code would distinguish such houses by just a single character.
Eircode took the view that wasn't nearly enough, and in my opinion that is correct. They went to great lengths to make the system error proof, so houses with similar or identical address have starkly different Eircodes.
They even made sure that houses that are not proximate, but have similar addresses, have starkly similar postcodes. So all the the properties in all of the five different 'Warrenstowns' in county Meath have starkly different Eircodes from each other.
To me, this is obviously a good idea. I realise that sequential or hierarchical codes appeal to some people's aesthetic sense of neatness, but that's hardly a design criteria. There was also some vague talk that sequential or hierarchical codes would allow people to deliver to multiple unknown locations without the aid of technology. I didn't find that convincing, but I suppose we'll find out in the event of a zombie apocalypse.
In fact, I suggested a long time ago that there is an argument for Eircode to be properly hierarchical, but within each small area, codes could be allocated randomly. Though the arguments against sequential codes are not entirely convincing either. Nobody ever complains that their postal address differs from their neighbour by only one digit.
There's an expression that goes "When you have a hammer, all your problems look like nails". In my view, this stuff about non sequential codes, might possibly be explained by the business that Autoaddress works in. It is their hammer, if you like. It was never a requirement imposed by the customer in this project.0 -
Join Date:Posts: 19390
TheChizler wrote: »That could definitely be more useful, but with smaller obvious areas you get problems like postcode snobbery or property values arbitrarily being related to the postcode, obviously these are undesirable. How they came up with the final number I don't know.
I live in Dublin 4 so I know all about snobbery, and property values.
This is a ridiculous argument to make. You live where you live and if you believe that your postcode changes the value of your property, talk to those who live in Portmarnock, Dublin 13 - who used to live in Portmarnock, Co. Dublin. The Eircode has not stopped some postcode snobbery.
If the routing code had been reduced in area to about 200 to 500 houses, and all routing codes had been contiguous, then a lot of complaints would be removed. I could give people my routing code (D04) and not my full postcode if I wanted to retain some anonymity.0 -
Join Date:Posts: 5746
The issue here is accountability. Even if it's too late to recover from the lost opportunity to implement a world class system, Ireland can't afford to keep ignoring mistakes like this. Unexplained technically illogical decisions made in back rooms that are "explained" by speculation only lead to unhealthy cynicism about how the country is run. The answer to this is not to shut up a take what you're given, it's to stop making unexplained back room deals in the first place.
And you accuse me of coming out with tripe?
There is NO accountability, responsibility or culture of excellence in ANY of the higher levels of the state services, or in the political system, and nothing the electorate do will change it, unless the electorate is also given the ability to remove civil and public servants from their posts.
We've seen nothing but non accountable decisions for decades, and the entire culture of state services is completely and utterly destroyed as a result, no one can be fired, or moved out as a result of failure, there's no concept of accountability or responsibility, and the only solution that Government has is to "reorganise" departments on a regular basis, to move the dead wood around to a different part of the system to hopefully do less damage. The classic example of how bad it is was when Wicklow County Council were being threatened with court action over the death of the Bray Firefighters, with the likely result being a massive fine. That was really going to help Wicklow deliver a better quality of services to their residents, reduce their already overstretched budgets.
The potential for loss of job and related pensions etc might be a better motivation to get it right, but that can't and won't happen, the system is too well set up now to protect the members of that very exclusive club that has it's primary purpose of looking after it's own regardless of the consequences. We had the same fiasco a few years ago after a school bus crash near Navan, it wasn't the people who were responsible for managing the road works that were in court, it was the County Council, and the only result of fining them was to reduce the services available to the residents. If that had been a private company, the people responsible for the mistakes would have been in the dock, and possibly facing prison sentences.
Look at the last few years. PPARS Payroll, the setting up of the HSE, Irish Water, E-Voting, and they are only recent examples, and I'm sure other could bring out many more. The HSE, Irish Water and the entire local authority system are MASSIVELY overstaffed at (very expensive) senior management levels for the size of the population in comparison to other countries, but the electorate are powerless to do anything to change it, regardless of the party or parties in power at any specific time, and "the system" is too well set up now for real change to be made.
What would have made a difference would have been if the IMF/Troika had really taken over and restructured the entire mess, but the "system" fought that tooth and nail to stop it from happening, as the implications for "the system" would have been massive.Shore, if it was easy, everybody would be doin it.😁
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The first thing to note is that hierarchical and sequential are two different characteristics. A postcode can be hierarchical, but not sequential.
Understood. what I said applies to postcodes that are hierarchical, sequential or for any other reason are increasingly similar with increasing proximity.In fact, I suggested a long time ago that there is an argument for Eircode to be properly hierarchical, but within each small area, codes could be allocated randomly. Though the arguments against sequential codes are not entirely convincing either. Nobody ever complains that their postal address differs from their neighbour by only one digit.
If you mean hierarchal down to a smaller area, I would agree with that. We could have gone with the two digits 139 areas, each divided into a dozen or so areas (one digit), within which you would have four starkly different digits, to prevent the problem. maybe there was a reason for not doing that, but if there was I don't know what it was.There's an expression that goes "When you have a hammer, all your problems look like nails". In my view, this stuff about non sequential codes, might possibly be explained by the business that Autoaddress works in. It is their hammer, if you like. It was never a requirement imposed by the customer in this project.
This applies to everyone. Nobody ever had any difficulty with the last portion of their phone number being randomised, but when Eircode followed the same pattern, the Loc8 lobby were talking like the sky had fallen. All of a sudden they came up with reasons - pretty contrived ones, in my view - why Eircode will cost lives, which just happened to be solved by using Loc8 instead.0 -
Sam Russell wrote: »
If the routing code had been reduced in area to about 200 to 500 houses, and all routing codes had been contiguous, then a lot of complaints would be removed. I could give people my routing code (D04) and not my full postcode if I wanted to retain some anonymity.
Some serious questions:
1) In what circumstances would you need to use only the first part only of your postcode?
2) In what circumstances would someone be happy to accept only the first part of your postcode and for it to be operationally useful to them?
3) How many people would be aware that such a postcode would be 'splittable'?
The answers I guess would be:
1) Very few.
2) Very few.
3) Very few.
To a certain extent whether this design feature would be useful is to some extent a multiplicative function of 1), 2) and 3). It would be such an obscure feature that very few would be aware of it and even less would use it. It would be hardly worth building into the design, given it would dramatically increase the potential for postcode snobbery, which in turn could turn people off using the postcode system at all.
I have been on the hiring end of recruitment in a pretty equal opportunities employer. It was depressing to see the extent to which people in areas they perceived as less desirable tailored their addresses to obscure it.
I once worked in a small firm once where the MD refused to interview anyone from a geographically distinct part of the town, probably about 2 or 3 CSO small areas. This kind of discrimination would be made even easier if postcodes were hierarchical and these areas had codes that people learned to know at a glance.
I know people say "postcode snobbery so what it only impacts property prices". To an extent I agree with this, but it also facilitates labour market discrimination and this is far more damaging in the long run.0 -
Join Date:Posts: 19390
Some serious questions:
1) In what circumstances would you need to use only the first part only of your postcode?
2) In what circumstances would someone be happy to accept only the first part of your postcode and for it to be operationally useful to them?
3) How many people would be aware that such a postcode would be 'splittable'?
The answers I guess would be:
1) Very few.
2) Very few.
3) Very few.
To a certain extent whether this design feature would be useful is to some extent a multiplicative function of 1), 2) and 3). It would be such an obscure feature that very few would be aware of it and even less would use it. It would be hardly worth building into the design, given it would dramatically increase the potential for postcode snobbery, which in turn could turn people off using the postcode system at all.
I have been on the hiring end of recruitment in a pretty equal opportunities employer. It was depressing to see the extent to which people in areas they perceived as less desirable tailored their addresses to obscure it.
I once worked in a small firm once where the MD refused to interview anyone from a geographically distinct part of the town, probably about 2 or 3 CSO small areas. This kind of discrimination would be made even easier if postcodes were hierarchical and these areas had codes that people learned to know at a glance.
I know people say "postcode snobbery so what it only impacts property prices". To an extent I agree with this, but it also facilitates labour market discrimination and this is far more damaging in the long run.
If you believe any of that ..... and actually believe that using random postcodes will stop prejudices of that nature ....
People discriminate no matter what. I have never understood why people are so prejudiced against people they do not know at all - but to use this as a reason for settling for a piss poor design beats me. Now people with ginger hair are getting a hard time in the UK - did you ever hear of such nonsense - but it is real. Do we really have to design into our infrastructure this kind of mindless prejudice?
If I am asked by an insurance company, I do not want to be getting reminders 11 months later saying 'is your insurance up for renewal' as I did this week. They need to know roughly where you live but not your exact address unless you take out a policy. So that is the first circumstance, and also the second one. If I am looking for a price or a quote, I may not want to provide sufficient information that I get unsolicited follow up, but enough to allow for a reasonable stab at a price for say a delivery or a bit of building work.
As for people being unaware, I am sure that many people would know about that possibility - particularly if they were told in one of the FAQs.
However, it would be very useful for people loading vans for delivery.
It would be very useful for knowing roughly where a particular address is without having to actually look it up. I can tell (and so can many others) from looking at most phone numbers (land line obviously) roughly where that number is in the country. That is useful.
Having non-contiguous routing keys to me is absolutely stupid and can only have been done to add confusion. Do An Post really cross one area while delivering within a single routing area? There are many examples of this.
Of course it adds to the suspicion that An Post have no interest in using the Eircode themselves and have cludged it to be no use to anyone else. Do not forget they got a wedge for the use of their geodirectory.0 -
Some serious questions:
1) In what circumstances would you need to use only the first part only of your postcode?
2) In what circumstances would someone be happy to accept only the first part of your postcode and for it to be operationally useful to them?
3) How many people would be aware that such a postcode would be 'splittable'?
The answers I guess would be:
1) Very few.
2) Very few.
3) Very few.
To a certain extent whether this design feature would be useful is to some extent a multiplicative function of 1), 2) and 3). It would be such an obscure feature that very few would be aware of it and even less would use it. It would be hardly worth building into the design, given it would dramatically increase the potential for postcode snobbery, which in turn could turn people off using the postcode system at all.
I have been on the hiring end of recruitment in a pretty equal opportunities employer. It was depressing to see the extent to which people in areas they perceived as less desirable tailored their addresses to obscure it.
I once worked in a small firm once where the MD refused to interview anyone from a geographically distinct part of the town, probably about 2 or 3 CSO small areas. This kind of discrimination would be made even easier if postcodes were hierarchical and these areas had codes that people learned to know at a glance.
I know people say "postcode snobbery so what it only impacts property prices". To an extent I agree with this, but it also facilitates labour market discrimination and this is far more damaging in the long run.
If you were tracking disease rates, immunisation rates, and other sensitive data, a low-tech way of doing this would be to take the postcode of the patient, and examine the anonymised data grouped by the first section of the postcode. This information could be widely distributed because it would not precisely identify patients, but would allow quite close geographic mapping.
This is not ideal, because different diseases require mapping at different levels. UK postcodes are accurate to a maximum of 26 households. If information was widely available that, say, one household had two HIV positive people, then I can imagine that the single gay couple on a small street might be judged, rightly or wrongly.
With Eircode, the eircode can be recorded, and then an IT system could assign them to an area of a suitable size, and publish only the areas.0 -
Join Date:Posts: 5746
Routing codes.
This is very specific, but here goes.
Back when there was money in the economy, my daughter ran a florist shop, and we developed an on line selling system, and delivered across most of the greater Dublin area, and out into the surrounding areas of Wicklow, Kildare and Meath.
Most days, there were probably about 10 to 20 deliveries, so working out the routing wasn't a major task, but, on special days, like Valentine's day, Mother's Day and Christmas, we could well end up dealing with 200 deliveries a day, sometimes more. That meant using extra delivery people who often didn't know the areas they were going into particularly well, so working out their routes was critical to ensuring that the deliveries were made.
Working out the routes for those runs was NOT easy, and going forward, if we had managed to come up with a sensible routing code structure as part of Eircode, it would have made things a LOT simpler to do a broad brush split at the time of arrival of the order, with a more detailed sort when the final numbers for the day were known.
If the Eircode system had been similar to the UK postcode system, it would have been ideal, in that the granularity of codes makes it very easy to determine broad brush area divisions. The Routing codes here, and the random nature of the full codes means that the Eircode system can't be used to work out any form of meaningful routing without using some form of technology, with the associated costs that are involved, and for small businesses, those costs soon ramp up significantly.
Once the GPS systems suppliers are up to speed, Eircode will make finding rural delivery locations a LOT simpler, it used to be a nightmare trying to find rural delivery locations, and even when we had some guidance, it was often the case that the actual distance from a turning rather than the distance we were given were 2 very different figures. In the same way, if the geo locations are accurate, finding urban locations will be easier, there are some roads where the numbering systems are obscure, the worst being an estate in Ratoath where the numbers were allocated by ESB on the basis of the order that they were connected to the supply, so to all intents and purposes, the numbers on the houses are a random order, which is NOT helpful, and reflects the complete lack of structure and clarity that should have been enforced by the local authorities, but that's another subject.
So yes, D04 is a little bit of a help in determining the right clip to put the orders on, and if D04 had actually been a split more significantly ( maybe a subset of D4AA to D4ZZ with numbers in there as well) it would have been even easier, and not needed any technology to get a pretty accurate split on the orders at the time of receipt.
Out of town, the Routing codes are a lot less helpful, as they cover much wider geographic areas, and realistically, there was no need or imperative to use An Post's routing structure as the core structure of the Eircode system, but for some reason, we have what we have.
So yes, D04 without the rest of the code helps, but it could (and should ) have been implemented in a much more user friendly manner.Shore, if it was easy, everybody would be doin it.😁
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I get what you’re saying, and to be honest I don’t disagree with the core point. It is just that there are two ‘original uses’ involved here. Address validation is only one use, the other is actually finding locations. For the former you definitely have a case, but for the latter (which is an arguably more important use) the current Eircode setup definitely makes things more complicated.TheChizler wrote: »In my experience if you create an alternative use of something, people will use it, and get it confused with the original use.
I need some serious convincing to buy this one.I think there's also a great benefit to codes being pseudo-random.
To borrow reasoning from another poster, if pseudo-random digits can perform a given function then so can non-random digits. By contrast non-random digits (eg: geocoding) can do functionality that non-random digits cannot. I don’t see how this simple argument can be in any way assailable, but I’m all hears to see someone try.
Cost is only one issue, the completely lack on interoperability would be the bigger problem imo. Right now anyone could take something like OpenPostcode and have it integrate with their excel sheets, could write up some .Net programs to use it, etc., and all because it is highly interoperable.…but there are electronic solutions for that (which of course you have to pay for)…..
What a lot of people in this thread don’t realise (which I suspect is due to them never having worked in the industry) is that you rarely get off-the-shelf software solutions that can do what is needed. Pick any company and you’d likely see unique challenges that mean a certain level of customisation will be needed – and Eircode’s inherent lack of interoperability will a continuing problem.
‘Answering’. That word. I do not think it means what you think it means.….and I am answering you as a courtesy.
Care to substantiate that?My opinion is that, because of our problem with non-unique addresses, any code that is increasingly similar for increasingly close properties is a bad idea, be it sequential or geocode.
Seriously? You’re seriously claiming that there are no jurisdictions that utilise postcodes that are “increasingly similar for increasingly close properties”???? Like, does the UK postcode not exist? Or the German postcode???It appears that the designers of Eircode agree, along with the designers of every other postcode that I am aware of internationally.
When a claim this ridiculous is made the default position should be contempt. Just saying.
How can this be true? A geocode will always be algorithmically convertible to GPS, which will never be true of any pseudo-random code. Almost all geocodes will have discernible ‘movement’ that correlates with proximity (eg: OpenPostcode & Loc8), which a pseudo-random code can never have.It seems to me that all the solutions to the geocode are basically making it less like a geocode and more like Eircode…
Trying to claim that such could ever become like Eircode isn’t just an incorrect assertion, it is quite silly to be frank.
You know the whole functionality that geocodes give? Functionality that was discussed at length during the submissions? Functionality that was part of the previous reports made by the postcode committee? That would be a rather obvious reason.I can't see a reason to use geocode-plus-multiple-fixes rather than Eircode…
I will take my incivility over your ridiculous contrived fobbing-off any day.I will not respond again if you are uncivil.
How does this actually address the argument that a geocode, which does deal with non-indexed locations, would be better than current Eircode, which doesn’t deal with non-indexed locations and is thus deficient in functionality? Functionality, it must be said, was part of the original argument in favour of having a national postcode. Functionality which is needed to make the claim on the Eircode website that it “enables people and businesses to find every address in Ireland” true.oscarBravo wrote: »Yes. It's also useless for non-Irish locations, for placing phone calls, and for finding recipes for Thai dishes.
The reason is simple: those things are not what it's for.
You’ve jumped on a comment that was part of exchange between myself and another poster, and completely ignored the context and the train of thought that lead to that comment. Not the first time you have done that in this thread either.Assuming you mean "county", the number of people who suddenly found they live in a different county as a result of Eircodes is precisely zero.
The exchange was over the amount of confusion that would be caused by current Eircode and a hypothetical alternative. I made the point that people not understanding the different between a postal address and what they use is a source of confusion in the current Eircode system, particularly for those whose postal office is in another county (and thus their postal address is too). But instead of adding to this particular discussion you instead took it out of context to, it seems, try scoring a cheap debating point. Well done you. And GJG wonders why I’m getting narky.
Is that really reason to cripple functionality though? Serious question.TheChizler wrote: »That could definitely be more useful, but with smaller obvious areas you get problems like postcode snobbery or property values arbitrarily being related to the postcode, obviously these are undesirable.
Let’s suppose this is an issue of importance – could it have been solved? The raw address information, irrespective of Eircode, will lead to snobbery anyway even if done behind closed doors in a property office. The only thing you can change is to make it less obvious from looking at the code visually. One idea off the top of my head would be to choose how you incorporate the error checking into the code generation. You’d still be able tell the relative locations of different properties, but the snobbery aspect wouldn’t be as visually obvious to the normal man on the street.
All that said, I think the idea that ‘snobbery’ should ever have been considered when designing a national postcode is a bit crazy.
The last time you mentioned this I pointed out that, at least for large areas of the country, it wasn’t true. And similarity has actually proven helpful when trying to find phone numbers in the dead tree directory if I knew of a number that was in the same vicinity.Nobody ever had any difficulty with the last portion of their phone number being randomised, but when Eircode followed the same pattern, the Loc8 lobby were talking like the sky had fallen.
But your whole argument completely falls apart when you consider that telephone numbers are not used for navigation and thus having them hierarchical would not have provided an advantage. – something that is totally untrue with a postcode, and I say that as someone who has years of experience using, and benefiting from, the NI postcode having an actual logical structure.
And by the way the FTAI, which has complained about Eircode for lacking this specific feature and speak from experience, are hardly the ‘Loc8 lobby’.
I’m pretty sure the logistics industry would fall under these. The FTAI have called for accurate maps of the routing keys because it is the only part of Eircode that contains any locational information (and thus the part most useful to their industry, which is a sizeable industry to be fair).1) In what circumstances would you need to use only the first part only of your postcode?
2) In what circumstances would someone be happy to accept only the first part of your postcode and for it to be operationally useful to them?
Genuinely, thank you for posting that. I don’t think people realise the disparity between the needs of delivery services and how Eircode turned out, and I feel most of that is due to unfamiliarity with that type of business. Really wish there was more people who could post stories like yours to help drive this home.Irish Steve wrote: »Routing codes.
This is very specific, but here goes.
This little portion needs a bit more highlighting. A lot of people who have proposed technological solutions may have an overly-idealised concept of how deliveries get planned and ultimately made. A few last minute orders can play havoc with a proposed planning, and on-the-ground there simply may not be enough time to give to entering the information into an application and then wait for the results. A last minute order not delivered is custom lost, and being able to visually know which truck, van or delivery route a last minute order should go on is vital – and Eircode is an obstacle to this.Irish Steve wrote: »…with a more detailed sort when the final numbers for the day were known.0 -
Not so, even a sequential code would not do that, unless every house in the country was lined up in one continous line. But there are two dimensions to think about; north/south and east/west. Hence a well thought out code such as Loc 8 is concatenated.A hierarchical code would distinguish such houses by just a single character.
There would be a logical and predictable element to the similarity of two neighbouring codes though.
Every address in the world is hierarchical; going from the country down to the state or county, to townland, to street etc. with an ultimate similarity in the addresses of two neighbours.
The opposite to hierarchy in addressing is anarchy and randomness.0 -
I get what you’re saying....:.
Please, with the greatest of respect, for the love of God, please stop multi-quoting and writing essays that go on and on and on and on
You could have the most wonderfully insightful things to say, but if you can't articulate yourself in a few concise sentences or paragraphs it's a disaster to look at.
To be honest, when I'm reading this thread now and I see your username I just keep scrolling (and scrolling and scrolling and scrolling) because I genuinely don't have the energy to read it.
At this stage I don't even know if you're pro or anti ericode0 -
If your attention span is too short, then the best thing is to refrain from posting. The issues here are not resolved in sound bites unfortunately.Please, with the greatest of respect, for the love of God, please stop multi-quoting and writing essays that go on and on and on and on
You could have the most wonderfully insightful things to say, but if you can't articulate yourself in a few concise sentences or paragraphs it's a disaster to look at.
To be honest, when I'm reading this thread now and I see your username I just keep scrolling (and scrolling and scrolling and scrolling) because I genuinely don't have the energy to read it.
At this stage I don't even know if you're pro or anti ericode0 -
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If your attention span is too short, then the best thing is to refrain from posting. The issues here are not resolved in sound bites unfortunately.
They won't be resolved full stop, there's nothing to resolve, this may as well be a thread of outrage at the list of Coke ingredients with people adamantly arguing it should have beetroot in it. It's not going to happen.
All we have here is a moaning session0 -
I have a question...
My address has always been
Number, street
Village
County
And my mail has always been delivered promptly and with no hassle.
Yesterday i got a letter which had a big anpost sticker on it saying the delivery was delayed due to an incorrect address and that my address should be
Number, street
Village
Name of town 15km away (which also happens to be the main town in the county)
County.
Really?!? Why! Is this because of the new eircodes? What has changed in the backend of things that i now need to include the name of a town that is 15km away? There is only one village of this name in the county and it is only one of two in the country (and the other has slighly different spelling). I fnd it crazy that my mail can be delivered promptly for so many years and now, all of a sudden for no apparent reason was delayed and needs an extra line in it.0 -
I have a question...
My address has always been
Number, street
Village
County
And my mail has always been delivered promptly and with no hassle.
Yesterday i got a letter which had a big anpost sticker on it saying the delivery was delayed due to an incorrect address and that my address should be
Number, street
Village
Name of town 15km away (which also happens to be the main town in the county)
County.
Really?!? Why! Is this because of the new eircodes? What has changed in the backend of things that i now need to include the name of a town that is 15km away? There is only one village of this name in the county and it is only one of two in the country (and the other has slighly different spelling). I fnd it crazy that my mail can be delivered promptly for so many years and now, all of a sudden for no apparent reason was delayed and needs an extra line in it.
That was always your offical address by the sounds of it, eircode didn't change anything, An Post would be doing that to your mail even if eircode was never introduced0 -
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Must ask the neighbours what they put as their address, really don't see how adding the name of the main town helps any as all the mail would go through there anyway.0
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They're being forced to waste time and money implementing this useless eircode guff, so their getting stroppy and throwing the toys out of the pram.But why now? Seems to me someone pedantic has taken over the mail sorting room!
The apologists for eircoce will insist that "your address hasn't changed, you've just been using the wrong address for the last 50 years" because a lot of the bolloxology in eircode is excused because it had to be that way because people are attached to their addresses and wouldn't stand for any changes being imposed on them!
You couldn't make it up! Even Steve Jobs backed away from the "You're holding it wrong!"0 -
Join Date:Posts: 19390
But why now? Seems to me someone pedantic has taken over the mail sorting room!
It would have made sense if An Post had started correcting people address about a year ago in the run up to the introduction of Eircode. That way the bad press of moving Shannon Airport to Limerick, or moving Portmarnock from Co Dublin to Dublin 13 could have been avoided (or rather blamed on rationalising 'standard' addresses).
Smacks of what happened with eVoting, and what eventually happened to all those horrid voting machines. They bought the old technology machines but did not own the software. Could that be true of Eircode?0 -
because a lot of the bolloxology in eircode is excused because it had to be that way because people are attached to their addresses and wouldn't stand for any changes being imposed on them"
So are you saying its "bollox" that ericode had to be that way because people wouldn't like their address being changed? And you're posting this in response to someone complaining about their address being changed?....0 -
Sam Russell wrote: »...the bad press of moving Shannon Airport to Limerick...
You know Shannon Airport wasn't, in fact, moved to Limerick, right?0 -
Must ask the neighbours what they put as their address, really don't see how adding the name of the main town helps any as all the mail would go through there anyway.
But it had to get to the main town first, thats why it should be in the address.
I have at times over the years, seen my local town (15 km away) added to the address on post delivered to me. I presume added by An Post.
Until i received my Eircode, i didnt realise that main town is part of my address.
Incidently, i live in a townland. My nearest neighbour, also in the same townland, has a different address as in its in a different village. Makes no sense.0 -
Yesterday i got a letter which had a big anpost sticker on it saying the delivery was delayed due to an incorrect address and that my address should be
Number, street
Village
Name of town 15km away (which also happens to be the main town in the county)
County.
If you have the time ring them or drop in and ask them to explain the need for the sticker (and let us know
. Interesting that they have not asked you to include your Eircode - its use is optional but is anyone encouraging take-up of it? 0 -
I have a question...
My address has always been
Number, street
Village
County
And my mail has always been delivered promptly and with no hassle.
Yesterday i got a letter which had a big anpost sticker on it saying the delivery was delayed due to an incorrect address and that my address should be
Number, street
Village
Name of town 15km away (which also happens to be the main town in the county)
County.
Really?!? Why! Is this because of the new eircodes? What has changed in the backend of things that i now need to include the name of a town that is 15km away? There is only one village of this name in the county and it is only one of two in the country (and the other has slighly different spelling). I fnd it crazy that my mail can be delivered promptly for so many years and now, all of a sudden for no apparent reason was delayed and needs an extra line in it.
If it was
Number, street
Village
Postcode
County.
would they have complained?0 -
Fuzzy Clam wrote: »But it had to get to the main town first, thats why it should be in the address.
I presume it has to go through a number of towns before it reaches me, and we don't have to list all of those (ok, i'm getting a bit stupid now!)Deleted User wrote: »If it was
Number, street
Village
Postcode
County.
would they have complained?
I wouldn't have. Maybe i'll actually start using the eircode and leave off the other town. I just think it's totally redundant. But then again, i'm from Australia where things are just easier and more logical...certainly you'd never put the name of a town 15km away from where you actually live in your address. And they have postcodes. But just one postcode for the entire town. Because they have proper streets in estates that are easily identified. And roadside mail boxes numbers (RMBs) for those living in the country. And it works.0 -
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The apologists for eircoce will (...excuse...) a lot of the bolloxology in eircode is excused because it had to be that way because people are attached to their addresses and wouldn't stand for any changes being imposed on them!So are you saying its "bollox" that ericode had to be that way because people wouldn't like their address being changed? And you're posting this in response to someone complaining about their address being changed?....
Are you asking me that question because you can't read English, or because you want to twist what I said and argue against something else? I only ask because I can't see any other reason for your followup.
People like you have excused some of the dumb design decisions in eircode by claiming that people wouldn't stand for their addresses being changed. We've seem Liam O'Sullivan's contribution to the Oireachtas committee being quoted as justification for everything from D adddress routing codes in Dublin on the one hand, to non-location specific routing codes for the rest of the country.One of the principal tenets set by the Department in selecting a code is that people should not have to change their current address. This is related to the Chairman's point about sense of place and attachment to place. The Dublin postal districts are viewed by residents living in those areas as part of their current addresses. To attempt to change or remove Dublin 4 would be the equivalent of taking away the name of a town for people who live in provincial Ireland. It does no violence to people's current addresses and it is carried into the code as designed.0
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This discussion has been closed.
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