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National Postcodes to be introduced
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Carawaystick wrote: »Apart from loc8 codes not working for all addresses. Still
If Loc8 codes don't have a database of all addresses then it's useless.
a 7 character(1letter,6number) code will identify a 100m^2 area without coding, a 9 character grid reference will identify a 10m^2 area.
If I have to navigate on a website to find out my own address for loc8 codes, sher what's the point? Still
Looks like you've missed all the previous discussion on this.
Seems you are referring to use of a truncated Irish National Grid coordinate - i.e. leave off the last 2 digits (of a trunacted 10 character code - normally 12 charcters) for 100*100 square area. Yes that would indeed give to an area based location and the same with a 9 character code. However there are related issues which Loc8 Code has resolved:
1. Irish National Grid is no longer the official Grid system of Ireland - ITM is.
2. If you are using a grid reference of any sort you have no control over the source of the code - i.e anyone can generate a grid refernece - from GPS, digital maps, paper maps, GIS etc etc - so therefore if you have one of these codes you have no idea as to its pedigree - i.e. who created it and to what accuracy - there can be multiple versions of the same code with varying degree of accuracy - end result is that nobody could rely on a single code without checking its source. This defeats one of the objectives of a "postcode" i.e. it should be immediately recognisable and its source and pedigree immediately known. In addition, if there are two grid systems in use in the country (ITM & ING) then this will also lead to confusion.
3. Delivering a series of numerals (except for 1 letter) as a code does not result in a coding system which is predictable or validateable and if a mistake is made there will be no obvious indicator. So your argument will be that that's what they have in the US and in various N European countries. True but in those countries they have a unique addressing system with named roads and property numbers to act as a further check. If a Zip code as written is in error, then the address which includes an unambiguous property number and road name will resolve the problem. In Ireland if an incorrect numeral based code is written on a parcel, in the case of over 40% of Irish properties (urban and rural) the address will not be able to solve the problem and therefore nothing will have been achieved.
4. A code which is predominantly numerals in itself is difficult to validate as a code - i.e. scanning software would not be able to positively identify the code amongst all other possible numbers on a parcel - reference no., telephone of sender, telephone of receiver, AWB number etc etc etc.
5. 100m squared accuracy could have you on a Motorway rather than at the Hotel (situated beside the motorway) - meaning you could have to travel several kilometers to get off the motorway and navigate back by traditional sign post!
6. Why would you select an 9 character code with no error checking when you can have an 8 character Loc8 Code which is more accurate and has error checking built in and can be validated! (those making suggestions regarding postcodes should be aware that the capability to be validated is a key requirement for any coding system which will be depended on to deliver goods and services )
7. Because Loc8 Code can work without an address database on disconnected mobile devices, you do not need an expensive address database to validate codes - software/scanners just need to check against the robust rules associated with the construction of the code and these rules in the case of a Loc8 Code will positively identify a Loc8 Code!
So Loc8 Codes have resolved all the above issues; identified by their developer in 30 years of a career related to navigation, surveying, mapping and positioning and as a direct result of several years research done in designing the code;- and not just untested and unthought through ideas thrown out during inconsequential conversation here or elsewhere.
Furthermore Loc8 Code does have access to a database of addresses:
1. Its own.
2. that belonging to OSI and OSNI as used in its web mapping service at Loc8code.com
3. Geodirectory - a Loc8 Code has already been associated with every address in the GeoDirectory for several users but for now An Post has chosen not to allow this option be publically available.
In the Loc8 Code service you are invited to identify your own desired Loc8 Code on the OSI/OSNI mapping (and related databases) for the following reasons:
1. To resolve the ambiguity that the address prompting that Geodirectory supports cannot resolve for 40%+ of the properties in its database.
2. Many destinations may not be a fixed properties at all and no database can satisfy all such possibilties - there are approximately 500,000 non fixed property based destinations/delivery points used in Ireland every day - that a static address database could not support. If you want a truck to deliver to a particular gate on an idustrial site - the Loc8 Code service can support this - no address database can! Of Course, if Loc8 Code was being rolled out as a Government backed system (not necessary) then An Post would probably release Geodirectory with Loc8 Codes attached as already completed.
3. Also, the Loc8 Code process uses a map interface so that errors can be resolved by the person occupying the property who knows the facts and to allow other information useful to delivery services be associated with the property code. One example is entrance Loc8 Codes which many Loc8 Code users have created as this alone solves many headaches for clients and service providers trying to get to places.
Lots and Lots of ideas and suggestions have been repeated on here for several years now. However, Loc8 Code has done more than make suggestions - it has used its experience, it has invested finances and resources, (put its money where its mouth is) it has trialled and tested a solution and it has delivered a full working solution which deals with all the technical requirements, and it has done this in such a way that it is robust and useable - even by emergency services - it is already being used by commercial service providers, emergency services and many more and it is supported on commercial navigation tools. There is no other that has been discussed or proposed over the last 6 years that actually has been delivered as a complete service like Loc8 Codes!
Loc8 Codes are now used by more than 5,000 businesses in Ireland - on their websites, correspondence and promotional material - why?- because it helps people find them - it works and it can be easily used!
Postcodes have been discussed now for nearly 6 years in Ireland. If people including DCENR feel the need to continue the discussion ad infinitum - that's fine - but Loc8 Codes have already moved on!0 -
The problem with Loc8 is you have to have a garmin system to use it. I have an iPhone with great GPS on it, I have to pay 3.99 to use the loc8 system.
I did a test a few months ago with my brother, we picked an address to go to. He left the house immideatly & started driving, guided only by his iPhone gps (navfree app). I logged onto the net, created a loc8 code, sent it to myself & then started driving. He got there about 10-15 minutes before me.
It's a clunky system. Maybe the app is better, but I'm not going to spend €3.99 to find out. If you want to gift me a redemption code for the iTunes store, I'll give it an honest & fair evaluation & report back here, but otherwise Loc8 is very much a minority system that the majority of people will not use because of the cost involved - free to use, yes, but still requires you to spend money when there are equally easy systems out there for free.0 -
The problem with Loc8 is you have to have a garmin system to use it. I have an iPhone with great GPS on it, I have to pay 3.99 to use the loc8 system.
So you'll happily pay for an iPhone and its monthly bills, but you won't pay once off for any of the apps, and you won't pay for a Garmin satnav. Your choice.0 -
Well I need a phone & was given an iPhone, so no cost there. I don't want a garmin because I got a free alternative (NavFree)
Why should I pay for an app when there's a free (superior) alternative available ? If Loc8 want mass adoption of their codes/service, they should be giving this app away free on iPhone/android. Make it as easy as possible for people to use the system, not put a block in their way.0 -
The problem with Loc8 is you have to have a garmin system to use it. I have an iPhone with great GPS on it, I have to pay 3.99 to use the loc8 system.
I did a test a few months ago with my brother, we picked an address to go to. He left the house immideatly & started driving, guided only by his iPhone gps (navfree app). I logged onto the net, created a loc8 code, sent it to myself & then started driving. He got there about 10-15 minutes before me.
It's a clunky system. Maybe the app is better, but I'm not going to spend €3.99 to find out. If you want to gift me a redemption code for the iTunes store, I'll give it an honest & fair evaluation & report back here, but otherwise Loc8 is very much a minority system that the majority of people will not use because of the cost involved - free to use, yes, but still requires you to spend money when there are equally easy systems out there for free.
Lets be precise about what you are saying:
1. You are saying that you can slect any address in Ireland with an navigation app and get there without some third party intervention? - I Don't think so!
2. Did you use the Loc8 Code on some device? - If so then the delay was just to finding the Loc8 Code - I think you will agree that you are not comparing like with like - the Loc8 Code is not for you to generate but for the ownedr of the destination address - and given to you by many means.
Funny thing is that the many organisations that actually use in real circumstances find that it saves them time and money.0 -
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iMax, you're confusing the app (which I know nothing of, presumably it's doing some routing?) and the the code - which is simply a short code for your gps location.
This is the same for any postcode.
No postcode system is going to tell you how to get from Ballybrack to Coolmine. It will provide an algorithm or lookup that allows you to figure out where Ballybrack and Coolmine are exactly. That is all.
The Loc8 codes are freely available from their website.0 -
Well I need a phone & was given an iPhone, so no cost there. I don't want a garmin because I got a free alternative (NavFree)
Why should I pay for an app when there's a free (superior) alternative available ? If Loc8 want mass adoption of their codes/service, they should be giving this app away free on iPhone/android. Make it as easy as possible for people to use the system, not put a block in their way.
So in the test you did not use a Loc8 Code in a navigation device at all - so no real test!! - and no proper comparison at all!!!?????0 -
Yes. Find an address on NavFree (even google maps) & click get directionsLets be precise about what you are saying:
1. You are saying that you can slect any address in Ireland with an navigation app and get there without some third party intervention? - I Don't think so!
If the owner of the address is not aware of loc8, they're hardly going to give it out, so I have to go look for it. Most people with a smart phone would have some sort of gps tagger installed where they can email or text lat/long.2. Did you use the Loc8 Code on some device? - If so then the delay was just to finding the Loc8 Code - I think you will agree that you are not comparing like with like - the Loc8 Code is not for you to generate but for the ownedr of the destination address - and given to you by many means.Funny thing is that the many organisations that actually use in real circumstances find that it saves them time and money.
OK then Gary, put your money where your mouth is. If you're so sure of the system, gift me a code (send by PM). I'll install your app & use it exclusively over Xmas. I'll report back in a week with an honest evaluation. If it's as good as you say, I'll retract everything I said & sing it's praises to all in sundry.0 -
Yes. Find an address on NavFree (even google maps) & click get directions
If the owner of the address is not aware of loc8, they're hardly going to give it out, so I have to go look for it. Most people with a smart phone would have some sort of gps tagger installed where they can email or text lat/long. .
iMax you are not dealing with facts;- just your own narrow understanding of things. Navfree is a navigation tool like all others - there are many out there (Loc8 Code supports Navigation, with Garmin, Google, TomTom & Navigon). There is a simple fact here in Ireland 40% of addresses are non unique - i.e. enter an address in a database search or on a navigation tool and you will not get an exact location - just a general area. So the fact that you are given directions does not mean that you will be taken to the door. Talk all the raméis you want but anyone who knows anything about addresses/postcodes/navigation in Ireland will confirm this fact. Someone who delivers goods and services to properties in Ireland by road has to deal with this problem daily and Navfree by iMax does not go anywhere near solving the problem.
Then you suggest generating and transmitting a Lat/long - good idea but again this has been discussed at length here and elsewhere- just make sure that the person who receives it has exactly the same app (there is a large number of possibilities out there with no standardisation of destination entry) that takes the Lat/Long entry at all or takes it in the same format as sent - i.e. any of d.ddddd or ddd mm.mmm or ddd mm ss.sss or with N&W or with +/- and if not hope that they know the difference and can find some way to do the conversion. Then lest not forget about the accuracy of the GPS it is generated from or the map data that is to be used - all with varying degrees of accuracy!
I'm afraid your hobby testing is of no use to people who do this for a living or indeed who are tourists visiting the country.
And don't worry the people who need others to find them have no problem generating and giving out their Loc8 Codes - as I said in my last post over 5,000 businesses in Ireland are already doing that and thousands of private individuals along with them.OK then Gary, put your money where your mouth is. If you're so sure of the system, gift me a code (send by PM). I'll install your app & use it exclusively over Xmas. I'll report back in a week with an honest evaluation. If it's as good as you say, I'll retract everything I said & sing it's praises to all in sundry.
You can use or test Loc8 Codes in four ways at present:
1. add a Loc8 Code at the end on the Loc8 code URL like this www.loc8code.com/NP7-76-CX7 and the exact location with assiociated detail can be viewed on a map straight away through any browser. Then use the Send to SatNav function if Loc8 Code is not activated on your SatNav- no cost!
2. Go go : http://www.loc8code.com/maps/find_code8 and enter a Loc8 Code and see its exact location and associated detail on a map at any time. Then use the Send to SatNav function if Loc8 Code is not activated on your SatNav - no cost!
3. Use Loc8 Code on any popular Garmin SatNav
4. Use in conjuction with Google, TomTom, Navigon Apps via the point8 App.
Take your pick which one you need to test. Those who have a real insight into the problem and the solution have already tested many times and are using Loc8 Codes as a result! You said in your earlier post that you already did a test - but it is now clear that you didn't do one at all - so not really a reliable tester I think!
If you are going somewhere and need a Loc8 Code - if it is a business - check the website -if its not there or it's a private location - just ask them in advance for their Loc8 Code - it takes them just a few minutes to do and only has to be done once - there is no cost! If you feel you are not able to do this, then carry on wasting their time and your phone credit by ringing them up several times asking for directions - a mild inconvenience if you only travel occasionally but a major one if you drive for a living;- you are a tourist or you are that receptionist in the hotel or business that is constantly wasting time giving complicated verbal directions when the other line is ringing with a potential customer or booking!
... and don't worry iMax, Loc8 Code has already put a lot of money where its mouth is.......... have you?0 -
Ok, if the boss of the company isn't prepared to spring the €3.99 for it, I think that speaks volumes about how bad it must be.
I'll stick with lat/long then.
It works, it's free & internationally recognised.0 -
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Ok, if the boss of the company isn't prepared to spring the €3.99 for it, I think that speaks volumes about how bad it must be.
I'll stick with lat/long then.
It works, it's free & internationally recognised.
iMax - think you even confuse yourself..
1. You say you tested Loc8 Codes "sent it to yourself" and yet you had no device to use it on - so you did not test it at all.
2. Now you want Loc8 Code to "put its money where its mouth is" (so you can test something you said you tested already) but you are not prepared to do so.
3. To test a Loc8 Code you can test it on the web for free - generate one for your house then go to the map a code page, enter the generated Loc8 Code and see that it shows you the exact location - and if you send it to someone they can do exactly the same without any interpretation or prior education.
4. Loc8 Code does not make navigation software or devices - it just delivers a precise and robust way of expressing destinations/addresses - just try on the web and consider the benefits of the code and the contsruction of the code and compare to the problems associated with lat/long or Grid, or Irish addresses and that's all you need do if you were really interested.
I think iMax you are just more interested in making bold statments which do not stack up on closer examination.
There are lots who actually know something about navigation who have examined Loc8 Code and given very favourable reviews - most notably Garmin;- the largest manufacturer of Navigation Devices and Software in the world who examined and tested Loc8 Codes several years ago against other potentials and chose Loc8 Code - and then put their money where their mouth is by licensing it - no mean feat you will acknowldege for a small Irish company and I know as an fellow Irishman in these difficult times you will be delighted that Irish technology is being used by multinationals - thereby generating jobs in Ireland (Crosshaven in Cork W8L-82-4YK to be exact) and delivering a service which reduces the cost of logistics and road delivered services in Ireland. Furthermore, the Irish Government, through the Dept Of Enterprise, Jobs and Innovation, are also backing Loc8 Codes after carefull and detailed assessement several years ago.
If you need to know some others using Loc8 Codes - because they do work and they do solve a recognised problem - then just go to the website or search for Loc8 Code on the web!
........And by the way - Loc8 Codes are free too!0 -
I'm not confused, I just know that you're trying to add an un-necessary layer to GPS, to make it more user friendly admittedly, but it's totally unnecessary to have there & also to have to pay for.
Lat/Long works, it's internationally recognised & accepted for GPS. For postcodes, as much as I'd love to have them here, I don't think a private company or a GPS company who has a vested interest in promoting a closed code should be in charge of it & no amount of lobbying government should be successful.
It should be a free open system issued by the government. The fact that they've sat on their hands with it is damning on them, but it should certainly not be seen as an opportunity by private enterprise to lash up replica singe proclaiming local postcodes.
I gave you the opportunity to prove to me that the system is decent & works & you declined, that tells me all I need to know.
I'll offer it to you again if you want me (as someone who is extremely sceptical about all of loc8's capabilities) to prove myself wrong, then give me a redemption code for the app to try it out.
If the company that is promoting the product isn't prepared to pay out for it, I most certainly won't be & nor will potential users.0 -
I'm not confused, I just know that you're trying to add an un-necessary layer to GPS, to make it more user friendly admittedly, but it's totally unnecessary to have there & also to have to pay for.
Lat/Long works, it's internationally recognised & accepted for GPS. For postcodes, as much as I'd love to have them here, I don't think a private company or a GPS company who has a vested interest in promoting a closed code should be in charge of it & no amount of lobbying government should be successful.
It should be a free open system issued by the government. The fact that they've sat on their hands with it is damning on them, but it should certainly not be seen as an opportunity by private enterprise to lash up replica singe proclaiming local postcodes.
I gave you the opportunity to prove to me that the system is decent & works & you declined, that tells me all I need to know.
I'll offer it to you again if you want me (as someone who is extremely sceptical about all of loc8's capabilities) to prove myself wrong, then give me a redemption code for the app to try it out.
If the company that is promoting the product isn't prepared to pay out for it, I most certainly won't be & nor will potential users.
iMax,
1. Once agin you are confused - Loc8 Code is not lobbying Government - Loc8 Code has launched a solution to a problem - no one needs Government approval to use it. Loc8 Code is not a postcode - it solves a navigation/mapping/GIS problem - but if someone wants to adopt it as a postcode they can do so if they wish. Your choice whether you use it or not.
2. I note you accept that Loc8 Codes make GPS more user friendly - thanks for recognising that!
3. Loc8 Codes are free - but as with Lat/long you need to pay for some device/service to use it!
4. Did you not say you tested Loc8 already? - or was that just a little fib to allow you make a point?
gas man!!!0 -
1. No problem existed. What's wrong with lat/long?
2. That's a gimme for you
3. Lat/long came free with my phone that I wanted anyway.
4. I used the myloc8ion website via my phone to test it.
Please don't be condescending to me with your "little fib" comments. It's insulting & doesn't reflect well on you or your company.
Incidently, the app store contains an app called Loc8 which allows the user to obtain their lat/long & instantly email/SMS it to someone if they need to find them. It's free.
You can also find many other apps which perform a similiar function free of charge. Ideal for GPS & compatible with the previously mentioned & also free google maps & navfree.
I was being genuine in my offer to you BTW. I genuinely wanted to be convinced of its capabilities, but your attitude, condescending tone & reluctance have raised more doubts about your system with me than testing it could answer at this time.
The app is overpriced, for mass uptake it would need to be at least half that price, until you do that, your system will be used by the minority rather than the majority you want it to.0 -
If you are going somewhere and need a Loc8 Code - if it is a business - check the website -if its not there or it's a private location - just ask them in advance for their Loc8 Code - it takes them just a few minutes to do and only has to be done once - there is no cost! If you feel you are not able to do this, then carry on wasting their time and your phone credit by ringing them up several times asking for directions - a mild inconvenience if you only travel occasionally but a major one if you drive for a living;- you are a tourist or you are that receptionist in the hotel or business that is constantly wasting time giving complicated verbal directions when the other line is ringing with a potential customer or booking!
... and don't worry iMax, Loc8 Code has already put a lot of money where its mouth is.......... have you?
This Loc8 idea is all fine & dandy, and it does indeed seem to work (as do other post code systems), but when
will Loc8 be officially adopted by 'An Post' and when will it be launched as the official Post code system for Ireland?
Thats the Big question.0 -
^ Never. That's the big answer.
Loc8 is the square peg. It does what it say it does, but it's an un-necessary layer in the postcode/gps system0 -
Lets assume there is some baseline for locations here. We could even base it on lat/long.Looks like you've missed all the previous discussion on this.
Seems you are referring to use of a truncated Irish National Grid coordinate - i.e. leave off the last 2 digits (of a trunacted 10 character code - normally 12 charcters) for 100*100 square area. Yes that would indeed give to an area based location and the same with a 9 character code. However there are related issues which Loc8 Code has resolved:
1. Irish National Grid is no longer the official Grid system of Ireland - ITM is.
Riiight so. If I look up a grid reference on a os map online or on paper, there's no difference. But say there's a bit out. so a std map is defined so users all use that one. say it's google map. How is users picking a grid reference on a std map different to users picking a point on google maps to figure out their loc8 code a much worse result? If I was given a loc8 code by someone who was clueless at reading maps, how would the pedigree of that be better?
2. If you are using a grid reference of any sort you have no control over the source of the code - i.e anyone can generate a grid refernece - from GPS, digital maps, paper maps, GIS etc etc - so therefore if you have one of these codes you have no idea as to its pedigree - i.e. who created it and to what accuracy - there can be multiple versions of the same code with varying degree of accuracy - end result is that nobody could rely on a single code without checking its source. This defeats one of the objectives of a "postcode" i.e. it should be immediately recognisable and its source and pedigree immediately known. In addition, if there are two grid systems in use in the country (ITM & ING) then this will also lead to confusion.
Does this not show we have an addressing and mapping problem, rather than a postcode problem. All roads have a road number. It's just that bit harder to figure out the number here than it should be.3. Delivering a series of numerals (except for 1 letter) as a code does not result in a coding system which is predictable or validateable and if a mistake is made there will be no obvious indicator. So your argument will be that that's what they have in the US and in various N European countries. True but in those countries they have a unique addressing system with named roads and property numbers to act as a further check. If a Zip code as written is in error, then the address which includes an unambiguous property number and road name will resolve the problem. In Ireland if an incorrect numeral based code is written on a parcel, in the case of over 40% of Irish properties (urban and rural) the address will not be able to solve the problem and therefore nothing will have been achieved.
If you have a 9 character( 10m^2 accuracy) grid reference you've 25e9 locations. If you've a lat/long co.ord you'll probably have more characters, depending on the accuracy, and place holders for the deg/min/sec; as it's Ireland, there's no need for N/W
As I can see it all loc8 does is hash some co-ords to a somewhat shorter code, and maybe add a crc.
The address loc8 still fails to figure out, when I tried it waay upthread and picked a point on the map gave directions on the loc8 website to a nearby motorway. This is the corallory of your point here.4. A code which is predominantly numerals in itself is difficult to validate as a code - i.e. scanning software would not be able to positively identify the code amongst all other possible numbers on a parcel - reference no., telephone of sender, telephone of receiver, AWB number etc etc etc.
5. 100m squared accuracy could have you on a Motorway rather than at the Hotel (situated beside the motorway) - meaning you could have to travel several kilometers to get off the motorway and navigate back by traditional sign post!
This is like 'seven minute abs' on there's something about mary6. Why would you select an 9 character code with no error checking when you can have an 8 character Loc8 Code which is more accurate and has error checking built in and can be validated! (those making suggestions regarding postcodes should be aware that the capability to be validated is a key requirement for any coding system which will be depended on to deliver goods and services )
7. Because Loc8 Code can work without an address database on disconnected mobile devices, you do not need an expensive address database to validate codes - software/scanners just need to check against the robust rules associated with the construction of the code and these rules in the case of a Loc8 Code will positively identify a Loc8 Code!
could you rephrase this point? I'm sure you don't mean an iphone in flight mode could be used to navigate to a position when a user enters a loc8 code.
Assuming a phone could be connected to 4 satellites in space but not connected to the gsm network is hardly disconnected.
So you might generate a loc8 code for gate 8 of a site, but not bother to mention the gate number in the delivery? I call shennanigans, here. I've seen plenty addresses with specific floors, or gates itemised on the delivery address.So Loc8 Codes have resolved all the above issues; identified by their developer in 30 years of a career related to navigation, surveying, mapping and positioning and as a direct result of several years research done in designing the code;- and not just untested and unthought through ideas thrown out during inconsequential conversation here or elsewhere.
Furthermore Loc8 Code does have access to a database of addresses:
1. Its own.
2. that belonging to OSI and OSNI as used in its web mapping service at Loc8code.com
3. Geodirectory - a Loc8 Code has already been associated with every address in the GeoDirectory for several users but for now An Post has chosen not to allow this option be publically available.
In the Loc8 Code service you are invited to identify your own desired Loc8 Code on the OSI/OSNI mapping (and related databases) for the following reasons:
1. To resolve the ambiguity that the address prompting that Geodirectory supports cannot resolve for 40%+ of the properties in its database.
2. Many destinations may not be a fixed properties at all and no database can satisfy all such possibilties - there are approximately 500,000 non fixed property based destinations/delivery points used in Ireland every day - that a static address database could not support. If you want a truck to deliver to a particular gate on an idustrial site - the Loc8 Code service can support this - no address database can!
I've put in another address, for someone living in an address like
Townsland,
Town,
Co.
The loc8 map can't even localise to the townsland, leading me to believe that they don't have a clue about the townsland boundaries.0 -
Can't wait. Finally won't have to make up fake postcodes for website orders.0
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Sam V Smith wrote: »Can't wait. Finally won't have to make up fake postcodes for website orders.
Neither can I, and I guess there are many who feel the same way. Every year we are told that 'Postcodes will be introduced this year' and the years go by, and nothing official ever happens! just more wrangling & more argumernts as to which system should be adopted, and here we again the end of another year . . .
I think the UK Postcodes are brilliant, (ok so they're not perfect), but they are bloody good on the whole, and a million times better than not having any recognised Postcode system like little old Ireland. < its also embarrassing when asked "What's your postcode Sir", well ahem, ah the thing is, well we dont actually have any official Postcodes in Ireland
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In my day to day life making up fake postcodes when ordering online is probably the most minor of distractions, not even an inconvenience. The world has moved on beyond postcodes; post gets delivered, ambulances and tradesmen go about their jobs and the country hasn't fallen into the Atlantic. Technology has already made them redundant for the postal service, is making them redundant for everyone else and soon that will be recognised by everyone including our neighbours across the pond.0
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In my day to day life making up fake postcodes when ordering online is probably the most minor of distractions, not even an inconvenience. The world has moved on beyond postcodes; post gets delivered, ambulances and tradesmen go about their jobs and the country hasn't fallen into the Atlantic. Technology has already made them redundant for the postal service, is making them redundant for everyone else and soon that will be recognised by everyone including our neighbours across the pond.
I'd challenge you to go over to the Emergency Services forum (where the fire and ambulance guys hand out) and make that statement.
I think you will find they will scream blue murder about the lack of postcodes and will tell you many sad stories about taking too long to get to an emergency situation due to the lack of an accurate address.
Personally I live just 2 miles from Dublin city centre and still have to direct every taxi driver and delivery van to my place as it was built 4 years ago and still isn't in most GPS systems.0 -
I don't think postcodes would solve any of those issues, BK0
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This Loc8 idea is all fine & dandy, and it does indeed seem to work (as do other post code systems), but when
will Loc8 be officially adopted by 'An Post' and when will it be launched as the official Post code system for Ireland?
Thats the Big question.
Why wait? Did you wait for the internet to be officially endorsed?0 -
Why wait? Did you wait for the internet to be officially endorsed?
With the Internet, by the time there was any significant adoption by the public we had something that:
a) worked well and solved a real problem
b) used open protocols with no vendor lock-in
This is a powerful set of conditions to drive adoption (though as we know from Flash, you can get adoption without fulfilling both).
An officially mandated system can, of course, become established purely by virtue of that mandate.0 -
Why wait? Did you wait for the internet to be officially endorsed?
You mean like a free for all? just make em up, or chose which one you like on your mail? Loc8 for one letter, GPS for another & something else for someones elese's post? > Surely a more structured approach would be the way to go with an official Postcode system.0 -
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Surely a more structured approach would be the way to go with an official Postcode system.
Yes, but our governments are essentially populist; ie they wait to see what people are doing, and then put themselves at the forefront of whatever that is.
So vote with your feet and start using whichever system you think is best.0 -
I'm confused. What do you think a postcode is?Carawaystick wrote: »As I can see it all loc8 does is hash some co-ords to a somewhat shorter code, and maybe add a crc.
To my eyes what you have described is exactly what a postcode should be.
The argument that well you have gps so why would you need a postcode is a nonsense.
"Ok, love, your house is on fire can you just give me the gps coordinate?
Yes, it's -84274.1233, 923461.12312.
Was that -84274.1232, 923461.12313?
No, -84274.1233, 923461.12312.
-84274.12323, 923461.12312?
No, -84274.1233, 923461.12312."
A postcode is just a short code for a gps coordinate. Nothing more.0 -
I don't think postcodes would solve any of those issues, BK
what would solve these issues?
post codes would probably help solve alot of issues for me (in an ambulance). there probably not perfect and i don't know which type is the best.
they ARE needed. irish townlands can be huge and if every body has the same second name, and the best direction you have is that youre looking for a house with a dark coloured door (in the dark they're all dark). it can take ages to find an address.
if there is a better solution, i'd welcome it.0 -
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I'm confused. What do you think a postcode is?
To my eyes what you have described is exactly what a postcode should be.
The argument that well you have gps so why would you need a postcode is a nonsense.
"Ok, love, your house is on fire can you just give me the gps coordinate?
Yes, it's -84274.1233, 923461.12312.
Was that -84274.1232, 923461.12313?
No, -84274.1233, 923461.12312.
-84274.12323, 923461.12312?
No, -84274.1233, 923461.12312."
A postcode is just a short code for a gps coordinate. Nothing more.
Exactly the point and well made!
and it should be:
1. Easily recognised and distinguishable from other random collections of numbers etc.
2. Robust so that precautions are taken to avoid common mistakes in use
3. Has come from a controlled, accurate and reliable source!
it is interseting to note that people who do not drive for a living or who do not deal with related problems every day of the week think they are best to come up with a solution - and in isolation without knowing or trying to understand the associated problems.
Yet again for those who have suggested it - it is useful to try understand that Google Mapping does not have consistent coverage across Ireland and the actual location of features on the imagery can be in the wrong place by up 30 metres or more!
If people want to suggest solutions they should really do some research into it first! Putting in place a Postcode/Geocode/Location Code that all can rely on is not a past-time - there are major implications for what is to be used...
And we have been waiting for a solution since early 2000's - do we just sit back and wait - would we do that with anything else? - not really - we would use whatever satisfies all the needs - Loc8 Code is there to be used - there are no penalties for using it - and its free to use! (but you do have to buy something to use it on! - texting a Loc8 Code to your phone is not a test or a way to use it really!)
For those interested - the company that has licensed Loc8 Codes for smartphone apps (One Touch Solutions) will release a "Light" and "Free" version of their point8 App early in 2012 with an Android equivalent. This currently works with Google, TomTom and Navigon and early in 2012 support will be extended to the new Garmin Streetpilot App and even NavFree also!
Have a good and safe Christmas all and if you know vulnerable people make sure they have a Loc8 Code closeby in case they need the emergency services in a hurry - it costs nothing but may save a life!0
This discussion has been closed.
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