National Postcodes to be introduced

garydubh

Solair wrote: »

That would be an absolute conflict of interest given the modern situation where there are umpteen users of such a service. I think the telephone network's a perfect analogy. Eircom/Meteor does not control the allocation of telephone numbers, nor are they its property, rather they're a national resource controlled by Comreg.

Any geolocation service / postal code system should be similarly administered by a neutral regulation agency.

Comreg's already charged with regulation of the postal system.

What's being offered is a 10 (+5) year license holder contract - which An Post have applied for. An Post's involvement in any way is contrary to Consultants reports on the matter.

LordSutch

We know for certain that a property tax is on the way in 2012, we also know that water charges will definately be making an appearance in 2012, we can also be sure that more austerity measures will be introduced in 2012, the London Olympics will also be held in 2012, but can anyone catagorically say that an official Postcode system for the Republic of Ireland will be rolled out in the year of our Lord 2012 ? Or will this blasted thread be reasurrected yet again at the end of next year

I thought it was a dead cert that postcodes for the Republic would be introduced this year (2011)?

garydubh

LordSutch wrote: »

I thought it was a dead cert that postcodes for the Republic would be introduced this year (2011)?

Mustn't forget that Noel Dempsey made a public statement in 2005 stating catagorically that a postcode would be in place by Jan 2008 - now 4 years overdue. Eamon Ryan made similar statements every year. It is however notable that Pat Rabbitte has made no such statements but instead stated in anwser to a Dail question that Government will have to take a look at this again and decisions as to whether to proceed or not would have to be taken on the basis of "operational, financial and technical" considerations;- so he is not making any commitments like his predecessors and recommendations by his former party colleague Liz Mc Manus in the Joint Oireachtas committee report on Postcodes have yet to be met. Furthermore both FG and Lbaour manifestos indicated that they would reverse the current proposals and processes - so nothing certain at all!

...and if the proposed system is not what any of the related industries want then it is destined to continue drifting ad infinitum anyhow.

We must not forget also that if someone said go today - it would take another 18 months at least to put everything in place and start roll out so postcodes before mid 2013 are very unlikely and all at a cost of a lot more than is being stated officially:

€15 million for public rollout (only bit being publicly communicated)
€30 million to An Post to upgrade their technology to take postcodes - (see earlier post)
€7 million/year ongoing to An Post for using their GeoDirectory to create and support postcodes - (see earlier post)
€25 million to be paid by Gov agencies to adjust records/software to include postcodes - this figure includes banks also as they are now mainly owned by the state - (in official report)
(these figures are all contained in related published reports)

recedite

LordSutch wrote: »

We know for certain that a property tax is on the way in 2012, we also know that water charges will definately be making an appearance in 2012,

The exact timescale for the forced introduction of these things was written into the IMF "memorandum of understanding" just over a year ago.
The introduction of location or post codes is different; it's entirely up to us.

LordSutch

recedite wrote: »

The introduction of location or post codes is different; it's entirely up to us.

Up to us? but what does that mean :cool:

At this stage I think we're just going round in circles.

recedite

"Us" as a nation of individual people.....
(a) start using your preferred code system as part of your own address from now on.
(b) lobby your local politician on the issue.

"Us" as a State..... decide on the best and/or most cost-effective solution and implement and/or endorse it.

BluntGuy

garydubh wrote: »

Anyone with related support queries feel free to contact support@loc8code.com

Are you an official representative of Loc8?

If so, then read the Boards.ie terms and conditions and apply to be a representative. I have read through your posts here and whilst I note another mod has already posted here and not drawn attention to them, to me many of them appear to be low-grade shilling. I note you were permanently banned from another Boards.ie forum for the same.

Best,

garydubh

BluntGuy wrote: »

Are you an official representative of Loc8?

If so, then read the Boards.ie terms and conditions and apply to be a representative.

Who I am is declared in my profile for all to see and known to all with whom I am engaging here.

Where should I make this application to be a representative?

thirty-six dragons

Not selling anything - just proposing the OpenPostcode (http://tinyurl.com/openpostcode) - which is free and opensource. Made me a nice wee presentation to show it in action. It's just plain simple to calculate - even have a spreadsheet in action to show the conversions.

https://docs.google.com/presentation/pub?id=1sEP5E9WKuOpUKT2U2SVP9UcznYJeRVUNceARRBYvkt0&start=false&loop=false&delayms=3000#slide=id.g1aa9789_0_0

Feedback welcome.

Sponge Bob

From what I can see Ian selflessly proposes to aid a bankrupt state to transition state services to a location finding system and Gary beleives that his second crack at a commercial system is well worth the money (to himself) unlike the first crack which was abandoned after money was wasted on it.

irishgeo

so do we have any idea when these are coming in?

Solair

irishgeo wrote: »

so do we have any idea when these are coming in?

Sometimes before 2113 and they will definitely cost less than a trillion Euro to implement

larchill

I see Pat Rabbite mentioned Post Codes in relation to the replacement for the TV License. This is stuck up in the great cloud in the sky again! He's looking for €€€€'000s to implement this - some chance with the state of things now. He mentioned that they won't be implemented by next year - Surprise - surprise. Its a continuation of the same old saga: Dempsey 2005, Ryan 2008, Rabbite 2012, ....

Solair

I think we can safely assume this project is parked indefinitely ?

Wild Bill

Solair wrote: »

I think we can safely assume this project is parked indefinitely ?

Indubitably.

something to say

The best thing to do is take things into our own hands and start using a code already out there. If we are waiting around for the government to implement one we will be left waiting time and time again. Its just typical ..... moan about something down the pub but not do anything about it. People moan about the government not implementing postcodes, why do we need them to do that when there are more precise codes out there that are free to use and are being used by businesses and satnav companies.

Solair

I sometimes wonder if we didn't have a Government at all, would anyone really notice the difference?

This is a perfect example of the kind of thing they are just completely incapable of doing. Some kind of location coding should have been introduced decades ago.

Jayuu

Solair wrote: »

I sometimes wonder if we didn't have a Government at all, would anyone really notice the difference?

This is a perfect example of the kind of thing they are just completely incapable of doing. Some kind of location coding should have been introduced decades ago.

I would suggest that its not considered high priority. We may discuss it endlessly here and I'm not saying that there isn't a case for them.

But I don't think outside this forum I've ever heard anybody say to me that they wish we had postcodes even when using a SatNav.

Solair

I think the best way forward on this would be to simply get Comreg to adopt an open system of some sort that does not have an on-going cost associated with it.

Maybe even do a deal with Google Maps or some other mapping service to help roll it out ? I don't see what would be particularly wrong with a commercial player in SatNav/Mapping getting on board to help push this. I don't see why the state should have to spend a lot of money on it.

You then simply throw the system open to any developer who wants to do anything they like with it and loads of applications will appear, logistic companies will start integrating it into their systems etc etc.

If An Post wants to use the system, that's up to them. I don't really see why they should be forced to if they've already invested in OCR software for addresses. If/when the system's of use to them, they'll use it. All they should be obliged to do is to ensure that if someone writes on of these codes on an envelope or address label that they will ignore it if they're not using it. That should be easy enough as their OCR system scans for certain words i.e. towns/cities/counties anyway and would probably ignore a post code anyway.

Does it really matter that much what An Post do as long as they manage to deliver letters / packages. If they don't want to use a code system, that's really not relevant. Lots and lots of other people need them for various reasons!

I really think that this could be done very cheaply and I think it should absolutely pull in any commercial assistance possible.

Can we not have some kind of an industry association deal with it without any major state involvement at all?

Other far far more complicated technical standards are implemented this way e.g. WiFi, GSM/UMTS, etc etc etc.

I'm sure you could have an industry body that would quickly take in Google Maps, OSI, Garmin, Navteq/Nokia, Loc8, Microsoft, DHL, UPS, TNT, FedEx, various taxi industry people, utilities like ESB, BGE, Eircom, the emergency services, the gardai, the banks, you name it...

Depending on how much you contribute, you're either an associate member or a full member. An Post could just join as an associate observer if they don't want to use the codes.

The state simply has to pass a piece of legislation saying that any location code will conform with IS-123X:2012 which is kept up to date by CodeIreland or whatever it gets called.

This is what they do with Electrical Regulations via the ETCI and other areas like that.

Realistically, the state has no expertise in this area and does not need to be directly involved other than to ensure that there is some kind of coordination body.

I think it could be self-funding! All the state needs to do is facilitate the startup and provide a bit of legislative back up, which is essentially free as they legislate all the time anyway.

thebman

Jayuu wrote: »

I would suggest that its not considered high priority. We may discuss it endlessly here and I'm not saying that there isn't a case for them.

But I don't think outside this forum I've ever heard anybody say to me that they wish we had postcodes even when using a SatNav.

Thing is most of those people probably never had any experience of actually using postcodes so they don't know what they are missing.

Until people have Satnavs with postcode support and companies put postcodes in their ads to help people get to their businesses then most people will be oblivious to their existence or the benefits it could have to them in their lives.

I know when I was in the UK driving around, I looked up the local cinema at a nearby Internet cafe and was able to take down the postcode and enter it into the satnav and get directly to my destination. If people knew that it could be that easy or the benefits it could bring to them and their businesses, they might be more keen to see it implemented.

I did see a year ago that the local gossip queen in my parents area was bragging about how she found out we were going to get postcodes in the next year. A lot of it is people just don't talk about stuff like this as well but it might be something they'd really like to have but don't see the point in talking about it since many don't actually know enough about it to talk about why the delays etc...

Del2005

Jayuu wrote: »

I would suggest that its not considered high priority. We may discuss it endlessly here and I'm not saying that there isn't a case for them.

But I don't think outside this forum I've ever heard anybody say to me that they wish we had postcodes even when using a SatNav.

People complain when the package they bought on the internet takes ages to be delivered and about the cost of getting an item delivered. If they knew that a proper location based code could improve delivery times and reduce the cost they would care.

Loads of people can't even give directions to their own home, I know several ex couriers, so a simple code which can direct a delivery driver to their door would be very useful. But our leaders aren't going for this they want something from the 1900s.

irishgeo

i am sure i seen on a wall in my town which looks like a post code.

ill get a picture tomorrow.

Jayuu

Del2005 wrote: »

People complain when the package they bought on the internet takes ages to be delivered and about the cost of getting an item delivered. If they knew that a proper location based code could improve delivery times and reduce the cost they would care.

Loads of people can't even give directions to their own home, I know several ex couriers, so a simple code which can direct a delivery driver to their door would be very useful. But our leaders aren't going for this they want something from the 1900s.

I'm not arguing the point but I'm just saying that if you asked people where it was on their priority list I don't think it would be that high. Therefore there's nobody in authority who is going to bother to champion it.

yer man!

Why is it so expensive to do? could they not just roll out ordinance survey maps and separate the whole country into tiny grids and associate a code to each one... I'm sure there's more to it but come on, a decade.....

something to say

Jayuu wrote: »

I'm not arguing the point but I'm just saying that if you asked people where it was on their priority list I don't think it would be that high. Therefore there's nobody in authority who is going to bother to champion it.

You know people mightnt realise how useful it actually would be. with purse strings tight we need to save every penny on fuel that we can and more importantly in emergency situations.... now thats why they should be a priority.

something to say

I love in the arse end of nowhere and havent got a house name yet. Giving diredtions for the house is a royal pain. for dleiveries of beds tellies, carpets.... everything really i used loc8 and thank god i had it. I cant imagine anyone finding my place on directions alone and to be honest, i hope to god if i ever have to call an ambulance for something they will take my code cause they def wont find me. scary thought, people need to realise 1. that codes ARE NEEDED and 2. we dont need the government to implement them.

something to say

something to say wrote: »

I love in the arse end of nowhere and havent got a house name yet.

We never bothered with a house name in the end, some of the neighbours have names but on one (local) bothers to use them.
The local postman has got to know the names of all the locals here, when in doubt, he just sticks the letters in the oldest residents letterbox!

Solair

MYOB wrote: »

Possibly one of the illegal Garmin/Loc8 ones which they were made remove in Dublin.

I don't think they're 'illegal' just 'unofficial'

SPDUB

Solair wrote: »

I don't think they're 'illegal' just 'unofficial'

Given that you can't just put up structures of any type that are intended to be permanent without permission and there are restrictions on temporary display as well I would go for illegal .

something to say

Deleted User wrote: »

We never bothered with a house name in the end, some of the neighbours have names but on one (local) bothers to use them.
The local postman has got to know the names of all the locals here, when in doubt, he just sticks the letters in the oldest residents letterbox!

While that may work for you I dont want my extrememly nosey naeighbours knowing what post Im getting and somehow dont think the local postman will be of much help to me if the ambulance is trying to find my house!!