National Postcodes to be introduced

Solair

Is that in today's edition?

elhal

I think its was mid November sometime Solair! Very interesting read if you can find it!

Curly Judge

elhal wrote: »

I think its was mid November sometime Solair! Very interesting read if you can find it!

Your wish is my command elhal;)

http://www.businesspost.ie/#!story/Home/News/National+postcode+contract+hit+by+conflict+of+interest+claim/id/8307e852-4cf9-4392-aa25-3296ae57061e

Curly Judge

elhal wrote: »

Saw SBP article alright, I think the codes were delayed without any involvement from loc8!!! They have been delayed for some years now as it is! Whats more interesting is the involvement of committee members, just shows how the government operates these days. As Condi says... its not what you know, its who you know......although in this case what you know from developing the tender spec seems to have helped!

Let’s call a spade a spade!
We all know that An Post don't want a location system brought in because of fears that it would undermine their little bailiwick.
The stonewalling on this leads straight to the doors of An Post and their political sycophants.

The Cush

Came across this written Dáil reply to a question on the introduction of a national postcode system from mid Nov

Tuesday, 20 November 2012

427. Deputy Thomas P. Broughan asked the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources if he will report on the current process for the introduction of a national postcode system; when the system will be introduced and the amount the process has cost to date; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [51239/12]

Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources (Deputy Pat Rabbitte): The procurement process to select a postcode management licence holder to implement a National Postcode System is ongoing and being managed by my Department on a ring fenced basis. That process began last year with the publication of a Pre Qualification Questionnaire on www.etenders.gov.ie.

The final decision to proceed with implementation of a national postcode will be one for Government and will be based on appropriate financial, technical and operational considerations.

The full cost of the postcode project will not be known until the tender process is complete. So far the cost of the tender process amounts to approximately €435,000.

http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2012112000068?opendocument#National Postcode System

Solair

This whole rollout is dragging on for way too long!

We need the damn codes and we need them fast. Ireland's addressing system is a mess and it's costing jobs, investment, time, and energy as nobody can find anything!

There was no reason this couldn't have just been left to ComReg to quickly tender and rollout out.

I don't know why it's gone to the Department etc.

I mean, what's the point of ComReg if it's not doing this kind of thing?

It does a fairly decent job of managing telephone numbering and frequency allocations and other national resource coding issues like this.

Curly Judge

Solair wrote: »

This whole rollout is dragging on for way too long!

We need the damn codes and we need them fast. Ireland's addressing system is a mess and it's costing jobs, investment, time, and energy as nobody can find anything!

There was no reason this couldn't have just been left to ComReg to quickly tender and rollout out.

I don't know why it's gone to the Department etc.

I mean, what's the point of ComReg if it's not doing this kind of thing?

It does a fairly decent job of managing telephone numbering and frequency allocations and other national resource coding issues like this.

Agreed... but when did the needs of the nation ever take precedence over a begrudging little turf war?
We are reinventing the wheel here and I have little doubt that the model chosen will turn out to be square!

charlemont

Curly Judge wrote: »

Agreed... but when did the needs of the nation ever take precedence over a begrudging little turf war?
We are reinventing the wheel here and I have little doubt that the model chosen will turn out to be square!

Exactly it will be done the Irish way therefore it may as well not be done at all as it will end up as useful as an ashtray on a motorbike.

The Cush

Dáil question on An Post's decision to tender for the national postcode system

Wednesday, 12 December 2012

137. Deputy Damien English
asked the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources if An Post’s decision to tender for a national post code system presents potential conflict of interest issues in view of their stated opposition to the system as a result of the benefits which could be accrued to private commercial marketing companies to the detriment of An Post; if he is concerned that the necessary incentives for a speedy rollout of the national post code system which has been promised for seven years may not be present if An Post were to get the contract in view of the competitive damage that will inevitably be caused to An Post from a roll out of this system; if he will confirm whether as part of the tendering process for the roll out of the new national post code system it includes assessments of whether any potential conflict of interests could arise similar to National Assets Managment Agency tenders; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [55844/12]

Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources (Deputy Pat Rabbitte): The procurement process for a national postcode system is currently under way. This process is being managed by my Department on a ring fenced basis. The pre-qualification questionnaire issued on the e-tenders website www.etenders.gov.ie on 17 January 2011 for the appointment of a postcode management licence holder. This offered the opportunity for all potential suppliers at that time to apply for the contract and asked for a declaration of any relevant conflicts which might impinge on the process.

I have no indication that the issues referred to by the Deputy are relevant in any way to the conduct of the current procurement.

http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2012121200082?opendocument#Postal Services

larchill

Another typical bit of Paddywhackery! Its 10 years this year since this undertaking was embarked upon. We're heading into the middle of another decade & NOTHING! :rolleyes:

recedite

The Cush wrote: »

Dáil question on An Post's decision to tender for the national postcode system

The Rabbitte wrote:

I have no indication that the issues referred to by the Deputy are relevant in any way to the conduct of the current procurement

Seems like the Rabbitte has spent very little time looking into this issue then.

Curly Judge

recedite wrote: »

Seems like the Rabbitte has spent very little time looking into this issue then.

Can't see the Minister [Labour after all] going up against the political and union muscle of An Post.
So what we will more than likely end up with is a sort of a "Wanderly Wagon" type post code.
I would love to be proven wrong?

[Jackass]

Couldn't organise a pissup in a brewery.

[Jackass]

[Jackass] wrote: »

Couldn't organise a pissup in a brewery.

Chances are, that if they do design a postcode, it'll be so awkward, that they'll never find the brewery! :P

Deedsie

Duplicate post

Deedsie

Are we ever gonna get postcodes working here? Has the tender gone out? Is the tender process nearly over yet?

Solair

Not unless some EU directive mandates them. That tends to be how we do things here.

Although one would wonder how our system complies with the move towards a single market for postal services.

http://europa.eu/legislation_summaries/internal_market/single_market_services/l24166_en.htm

Lack of accurate, codified addressing gives the incumbent huge advantages. It would be like if eircom were the only company who knew how to connect calls to end-users.

Curly Judge

Deedsie wrote: »

Are we ever gonna get postcodes working here? Has the tender gone out? Is the tender process nearly over yet?

In this country we have managed to turn mañana into an art form!

Solair

Curly Judge wrote: »

In this country we have managed to turn mañana into an art form!

That and tying ourselves in legal quagmires at enormous cost.

The Cush

Recent Dáil question on this, process expected to conclude in the first half of 2013.

Wednesday, 23 January 2013

165. Deputy Olivia Mitchell
asked the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources the position regarding the public procurement process for a post code provider; when it is envisaged the switch to post codes will take place; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3153/13]

Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources (Deputy Pat Rabbitte): It is Government policy to implement postcodes. The procurement process to select a postcode management licence holder to implement a National Postcode System began in 2011 with the publication of a Pre-Qualification Questionnaire on www.etenders.gov.ie. That process is still ongoing, and it is expected to conclude in the first half of 2013.

The final decision to proceed with implementation of a national postcode will be one for Government and will be based on appropriate financial, technical and operational considerations.

http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2013012300080?opendocument#WRU01025

Thursday, 24 January 2013

143. Deputy Ciarán Lynch
asked the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources if a decision has been taken to introduce post codes; the progress that has been made to date; if a target date has been set for their introduction; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3533/13]

Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources (Deputy Pat Rabbitte): It is Government policy to implement postcodes. The procurement process to select a postcode management licence holder to implement a National Postcode System began in 2011 with the publication of a Pre-Qualification Questionnaire on www.etenders.gov.ie. That process is still ongoing,

http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2013012400065?opendocument#WRT00950

Del2005

The Cush wrote: »

Recent Dáil question on this, process expected to conclude in the first half of 2013.

It's good to see how are well paid politicians pay attention in the Dail. Two questions about the same thing 2 days in a row!

The Cush

Del2005 wrote: »

It's good to see how are well paid politicians pay attention in the Dail. Two questions about the same thing 2 days in a row!

Questions for written answer would have been submitted from 3 days or more before replies are published.

recedite

^^ Two Dáil questions asked, and one bull$hit answer given.
A better, more relevant answer to those questions is available here on boards.ie ;

aimhigh wrote: »

There is no tender to design a postcode in progress and there never was. The postcode will be the ABC 123 post town model. The tender is to decide who will implement it and become the 10 year Postcode Management License Holder. Further refinement of the ABC 123 model to a location based model (added by Eamon Ryan as a result of opposition pressure and the postcode report) is suggested as an optional capability for the future but not a requirement. Firstly, the post town model cannot be made into a location code in any form;- by adding characters at some time in the future a unique identifier can be added to an address so when looked up in a database (Geodirectory) coordinates can be read - this does not make the post town model into a location code; a similar unique identifier of little pratical use exists already in the Geodirectory. Furthermore, this is only an option and the data protection commissioner has stated that if this was in the public domain it would undermine individaul data protection rights - so even if it does exist in the future it will not be in the public domain just for license to Gov Agencies (Phil Hogan perhaps) and Direct Marketing Companies.

An Post is one of the 3 preferred suppliers selected in April 2011 in the first part of the tender process and it, plus one of the other 2 selected suppliers was on the National Postcode Project Board who recommended the ABC 123 model. So if a postcode happens in the future (now nearly 5 years passed initial deadline of Jan 2008;- this thread starting in 2009 heralds the announcement of the second deadline of 2011 which never happened either) it will not identify individual properties in the public domain.

There will be no further tender for a postcode - 3 potential suppliers (including An Post) have been selected and the plan is that when the ABC 123 postcode is implemented one of those 3 will do it and manage it for the first 10 years. Design of postcode and Selection of preferred suppliers is all done and dusted! Only last thing to decide is if it will go ahead at all and perhaps the finances and the political will are not there.

Its a pity this government didn't scrap the process and start anew when they took power, but as in so many other areas, they have just carried on up the same blind alley as their predecessors.

Curly Judge

recedite wrote: »

^^ Two Dáil questions asked, and one bull$hit answer given.
A better, more relevant answer to those questions is available here on boards.ie ;


Its a pity this government didn't scrap the process and start anew when they took power, but as in so many other areas, they have just carried on up the same blind alley as their predecessors.

It's more than a pity. It's a scandal of FF proportions!

Stonewolf

Exactly how does it take this long to introduce something that's been standard in nearly every other Western nation for decades (is it in fact centuries?)

Curly Judge

Stonewolf wrote: »

Exactly how does it take this long to introduce something that's been standard in nearly every other Western nation for decades (is it in fact centuries?)

Because we have a turgid, constipated, lazy and corrupt civil service
who have been let do what they like for years by an equally inferior breed of politician! That's why!

Carawaystick

Stonewolf wrote: »

Exactly how does it take this long to introduce something that's been standard in nearly every other Western nation for decades (is it in fact centuries?)

You could add a postcode like the French one tomorrow, a 5 digit code, where the first two digits are for the county and the three remaining are for the town, with no location information
So any address in the commune of Cherburg would have the postcode 50100

This would be pointless, so maybe the govt will introduce something like it here

bbuzz

Afaik Accenture are working on Postcodes for An Post atm.

Solair

Carawaystick wrote: »

You could add a postcode like the French one tomorrow, a 5 digit code, where the first two digits are for the county and the three remaining are for the town, with no location information
So any address in the commune of Cherburg would have the postcode 50100

This would be pointless, so maybe the govt will introduce something like it here

Most European post codes are totally useless without the first line of the street address too.

In an Irish context, because of really vague addressing and allowing multiple places to have the same name in the same area, they would be utterly pointless.

33 rue Énigme,
Perplexité-sur-Mer 99001

All it means is you can leave out the equivalent of counties and stuff.

antoinolachtnai

5 digits could bring you down to the nearest 100 houses. It could refer to CSO small areas.

It would not be perfect but it would not be 'utterly pointless'. You would be sure of being within a mile or so of your destination from the code alone which is a big improvement on the current situation.

Such a code could easily be supplemented at a later date with 2 digits for road segment and a further two digits for building number within the road segment.