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National Postcodes to be introduced
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looks like the 5th deadline listed above is now also missed:
Seanad Debate Tuesday 15th May:
Rabbitte: "In the event of the process reaching the final tender stage, the design parameters of the postcode will be specified. As that stage has not been reached, I am not in a position to inform the Senator on the exact type of postcode which will be sought by way of tender. I should point out that the final decision to proceed with the implementation of a national postcode will be one for Government and will be based on appropriate financial, technical and operational considerations. This decision will be made later this year"
It's only two weeks ago in the Dail that he said "by end of May" - so as I said nobody is in charge!
1st Deadline missed: Jan 2008 (Ryan)
2nd Deadline missed: Dec 2010 (Ryan)
3rd Deadline missed: Sept 2011 (Rabbitte)
4th Deadline Missed: Dec 2012 (Rabbitte)
5th Deadline Missed: May 2013 (Rabbitte)
I guess that means that if there is an "R" in the governMonth, there will be no postcodes
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It is common on this thread for people to jump in at the end and make recommendations based on personal experience rather than fact and without reading what has gone before.
Earlier this year I dealt with misconceptions regarding the UK postcode (US has similar issues). Traditional postcodes (UK, ZIP etc) were designed for sorting mail and not finding places -postmen do the finding. Traditional postcodes were designed in a pre computer and GPS era and are therefore not efficient in that regard. We need a system that is designed for finding places and leveaging off modern technology rather that what was available in the 1960's!
Here are the problems with traditional postcodes again;- they are worth a read and some careful consideration before being so bold as to specify a solution to suit Ireland's modern requirements - (OU812 !)
Quote:
Originally Posted by aimhigh
1. The UK Postcode was put in place in 1950's before PC's, Electronic Mapping, GPS and automated sorting were developed. It was designed so a letter could be manually put in the right pigeon hole on the basis of visual inspection - and the same all the way to the local post office where it can be put in the right bag on the basis of the code - but then delivered on the basis of the property number. The postman does not use the postcode - just street name and property number... same as currently used here in Ireland, but Irish postmen need to know the name of the occupiers of properties because there are no property numbers, street names or unambiguous elements in many cases!
2. The UK postcode system was applied to Northern Ireland in 1975 and was unsuccessful in many areas because it needs road names and property numbers for it to work. In many areas that postcode still does not function correctly in Northern Ireland for the same reasons. In fact, in rural UK the same problems exist - people do no use the property numbers they were allocated and therefore there are many reported incidents of ambulances not finding places and goods not being delivered in not urban locations.
3. UK Postcodes therefore do not work well in non urban areas. Everyone that quotes UK postcodes as the solution thinks of their experiences in UK cities. The simple fact is that UK postcodes do not work unless they are used in conjunction with a property number. A UK postcode does not get you to the door of a property - its guides you to the centre of 40-70 properties and you need the property number to find the door. This makes the reference number at least 9 characters long ( Postcode plus property number so can be 11 characters) to identify an individual property in UK.
4. You cannot compare the UK and Ireland for many reasons - not least the fact that Ireland has a higher precentage of its population living in non urban areas than the UK and indeed more than any other country in Europe. Therefore, a postcode which has problems in rural UK is not what this country needs. 40%+ of Irish properties do not have numbers and another large percentage have them and do not use them. An Post have never tried to change this so it is too late now - the Northern Ireland experience proved that!
5. A UK postcode changes regularly - as new properties are built or postal operations are reorganised. There are ongoing related disputes and costs and therefore in a modern age these can and should be avoided.
6. The UK postcode was implemented in the 1960's when people could be guaranteed that if they used their postcode, then mail could be delivered more quickly and more efficiently ( less costs). Even with those incentives (and a more compliant population than now) it took 50 years to achieve 95% penetration. A postcode is no longer needed to sort mail and deliver mail related efficiencies, so giving the Irish population that incentive for using an old fashioned postcode will never work. This is probably why An Post never tried to introduce one and why they still do not want one. They would spend 10's of millions in changing technology to use it with little benefit and very few users; and all in a rapidly decling market.
7. It is expensive to implement and maintain a UK type postcode. Again it would change routinely resulting in additional costs to users including businesses. To use a UK postcode on a satnav or navigation device you must also install two seperate databases - one with postcodes and related data and another with property numbers, their coordinates and their relationships to the postcodes and constantly keep them updated. This is major additional cost that Irish users do not have to pay for now. Like everything else, because Ireland has a relatively small number of users, the cost would be greater than in the UK. Furthermore, An Post have some of this in their own database, the GeoDirectory, and already satnav manufacturers cannot afford to use it and indeed neither can Google. An Post are not likely to give this away cheaply as they have a monopoly and it was not liberalised with the rest of the post in 2012. With regular changes, this type of postcode would also mean ongoing costs to keep the databases up to date.
8. So, the UK postcode would not be the solution for Ireland. Yet the spefication in the tender issued in 2011 for the Irish postcode was for a UK type postcode but without the property numbers to make it work. Why....? well it seems that people just do not think and most involved do not understand what a postcode is, what it can do and what we want it to do for a modern Ireland where it is not required for the declining postal industry. Calls for postcodes and especially calls for UK type postcodes are just pointless without defining exactly what you want it to be able to do and for who (this has never been done)
The tender process to select an organisation to implement a UK type postcode (without the necessary property numbers to make it work) is still ongoing.... It is now 18 months past deadline - why? - well maybe somebody has realised the costs and the significant limitations but they still have not been able to end it!
and following that another previous post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by aimhigh
Casually gained impressions and realities can differ markedly;-
Rural Uk Addresses With No House No/street Name:
http://www.yournav.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=12618
“Don`t use the sat-nav to find it!”
http://www.tripadvisor.ie/ShowUserReviews-g186326-d1949972-r147506467-Days_Inn_Kendal_Killington_Lake-Kendal_Lake_District_Cumbria_England.html
But this was only one of the issues raised in my earlier post;- together all the issues raised identify a traditional UK postcode as unsuited to Ireland and unsuited to modern needs.
It would be a pity if this thread once again launched into a discussion on what contributers believe the Irish postcode should be. Once again, I must highlight that a process to introduce a UK type postcode without property numbers is already "ongoing" and it is not up for further discussion!
As long as this is the fact, a discussion on what contributers believe we should have as a postcode actually serves no purpose whatsoever. The debate really should be if what is "ongoing" is best for Ireland and if posters think it is not;- then the discussion should really be related to how to change what is "ongoing" to "TERMINATED"
and more:
Quote:
The Problem with Understanding Postcodes
Postcodes were introduced to help sort mail. Because they are often seen with
the names of towns and counties on addresses, many people wrongly assume that
postcodes are based on certain geographical or administrative boundaries.
People assume that certain postcodes mean that their properties belong in
certain counties. Postcodes remain constant while county boundaries change all
around them. Nowadays some postal areas can stretch across a couple of counties,
in fact in Northern Ireland, the BT
(Belfast) area covers the whole province.
People will claim that because they have a certain postal area and they can
include a county in their address line, they belong in that county. As we've
seen, postal areas are not based on county boundaries and it doesn't matter what
county is included in the address line, the post office will ignore it.
London Postal Areas
London postal areas are probably the most misunderstood of the lot. When the
original set of London postal areas were drawn up, they spread outside the
boundaries of what was then London County. When Greater London was created in
1965, it encompassed suburbs in what had been other counties. The new additions
retained their postcodes, meaning that all or part of the EN Enfield,
KTKingston-upon-Thames, HA
Harrow, UB Uxbridge, TW Twickenham, SM Sutton, CR
Croydon, TN Tonbridge, DA Dartford, BRBromley, RM Romford and
IG Ilford postal areas are within the boundaries of Greater London.
Because these suburbs don't have one of the EC, WC, N,
NW, W, SW, SE, E postcodes, people will claim
they do not have London postcodes and are still part of their original
county.
and finally:
Quote:
ANGRY householders are demanding an end to a "postcode lottery" they claim is
costing them hundreds of pounds.
Hundreds of residents of Hawkesbury village have a Coventry postcode though
many of their neighbours have a Warwickshire one.
Those with a Coventry postcode say they are having to pay more for their car
and home insurance.
One half of Black Horse Road is classed as Coventry - and has a CV6 postcode
- while the other half of the street is classed as being part of Bedworth
(CV7).
There are 750 houses in the area from Coventry Canal to the end of Hawkesbury
village.0 -
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So what's wrong with having a system like:
17, Any Street,
Any Town, W5617, IE.
Where W56 relates to the map below (Wicklow, OSI Reference 56, 17 being a subset of grid within grid which are smaller & more precise) ?
Most of the work is done already, it ties in with the OSI, would be easily commutable to GPS. Seems simple enough & certainly not enough work to delay it eight years+0 -
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This discussion has been closed.
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