National Postcodes to be introduced

Sheldons Brain

What's the point in first finding out what's wrong with geo directory, then fixing it and then trying to make the new system work with it?

It is a good deal easier to "fix" Geodirectory than start from scratch building exactly the same thing.

ben101

Del2005 wrote: »

Yet they still deliver the mail to the wrong place. What's the point in first finding out what's wrong with geo directory, then fixing it and then trying to make the new system work with it?

I've actually seen it up close,its an excellent system ,if you have a problematic address why don't you contact your local D.O. and sort it out .I find it hard to believe there are many mistakes on it as its updated so often,human error on the delivery side can still happen but chances are the property is still listed correctly.

And bear in mind one of the reasons Ireland has no post codes is because it will be so hard to implement,if it wasn't it would have been done years ago.If i'm not mistaken it was trialed and didn't work.

You obviously have a grudge against An Post but remember if any one else comes in to do it they won't have the same experience and most people don't realize how bad Irish addresses are,many roads have several different names,some roads have the same sequence of numbers repeated over 5 or 6 times ,meaning you have 5 or six separate houses with the exact same address.You also will have massive resistance by some people ,especially some elderly in rural areas.I know one woman who just has her name and the general area,which is quite large,

and refuses to change it.If you don't know the route you can easily misdeliver.You have streets that go up with odd numbers on one side and do the same on the other ,even some estates are unbelievably badly laid out you would swear they just scattered the numbers randomly.I have seen letters addressed "the house with the yellow roof" and "the house behind the one with the yellow roof".

Next time you are in your local village or town stop and see if the local council have put up proper signs and numbers like they are supposed to ,they probably haven't.Rural areas are even worse,you could have a dozen "Mr Murphy's The cottage" in one small area.If we lived in a country that had streets that started with 1 ,went up in odd numbers and then came back down in even ones it would be easy but unfortunately we never make things easy for ourselves in this country so whoever do it will have a nightmare job starting from scratch and probably the politicians don't realize or care.

I just hope its not the electronic vote all over again and the private company tasked with the job don't come back in six months saying its going to cost 4 times more to do than they thought it would.

a65b2cd

Yes, it would be crazy not to use geo-directory as the database both to start with and for updates. it should be possible to make a licensing agreement between Capita and OSi / An Post with everyone a winner by earning income from the reduced costs incurred by users of the database. An Post delivery personnel could help clarify any errors in existing geo-coordinates and to check the coordinates of new letter-boxes.

Jack180570

ben101 wrote: »

I've actually seen it up close,its an excellent system ,if you have a problematic address why don't you contact your local D.O. and sort it out .I find it hard to believe there are many mistakes on it as its updated so often,human error on the delivery side can still happen but chances are the property is still listed correctly.

And bear in mind one of the reasons Ireland has no post codes is because it will be so hard to implement,if it wasn't it would have been done years ago.If i'm not mistaken it was trialed and didn't work.

You obviously have a grudge against An Post but remember if any one else comes in to do it they won't have the same experience and most people don't realize how bad Irish addresses are,many roads have several different names,some roads have the same sequence of numbers repeated over 5 or 6 times ,meaning you have 5 or six separate houses with the exact same address.You also will have massive resistance by some people ,especially some elderly in rural areas.I know one woman who just has her name and the general area,which is quite large,

and refuses to change it.If you don't know the route you can easily misdeliver.You have streets that go up with odd numbers on one side and do the same on the other ,even some estates are unbelievably badly laid out you would swear they just scattered the numbers randomly.I have seen letters addressed "the house with the yellow roof" and "the house behind the one with the yellow roof".

Next time you are in your local village or town stop and see if the local council have put up proper signs and numbers like they are supposed to ,they probably haven't.Rural areas are even worse,you could have a dozen "Mr Murphy's The cottage" in one small area.If we lived in a country that had streets that started with 1 ,went up in odd numbers and then came back down in even ones it would be easy but unfortunately we never make things easy for ourselves in this country so whoever do it will have a nightmare job starting from scratch and probably the politicians don't realize or care.

I just hope its not the electronic vote all over again and the private company tasked with the job don't come back in six months saying its going to cost 4 times more to do than they thought it would.

IMHO the reason we don't have postcodes is down to inefficiency and lack of will, coupled with an organisation that if it co-operated with the introduction of postcodes would be like turkeys voting for Christmas, coupled with a Government Minister that has not got what it takes to govern and is either intellectually deficient or morally corrupt (neither being a positive in this situation), leading to, no postcodes for Ireland, simple really.

Since the above-mentioned organisation (which currently delivers letters in Ireland) was invited to design the postcode system and now is part of a consortium that has been successful in being awarded the tender 'subject to contract', I expect that the more or less 10 year delay in the introduction of the postcodes will continue to a 15 or 20 year delay. In fact it will continue for as long as it is allowed by Government. (in fairness hard to blame the organization who currently deliver the post for delaying a system that would most likely see them either working for less or looking for a new job).
Like I say, I don't blame them, I blame the Government and specifically the relevant minister.

Now I think the Minister needs to change his current course of action, because:

The Minister does NOT HAVE THE RIGHT to delay the introduction of postcodes just because the organisation that currently delivers the post wants to protect its current position as the ONLY organisation that COULD deliver the post. The main reason being that postcodes have a far wider economic use beyond delivering letters. Business need them to make themselves more efficient and to eliminate costs that can easily be eliminated with a proper postcode system.

Secondly, the Minister does NOT HAVE THE RIGHT to waste millions of taxpayers euro designing a postcode system that has (with funding from Enterprise Ireland) already been designed.

Thirdly, the Minister does NOT HAVE THE RIGHT to risk spending millions of euro designing a system that might not work (like the eVoting and PPars payment system etc) when there is a system that does work and is reliable/proven.

Finally, the Minister does NOT HAVE THE RIGHT to WASTE millions of our hard earned taxes when the current postcode system that is out there, is proven and reliable, is FREE for him to use.

The Minister needs to either do his job, or let someone else do the job.

ben101

Jack180570 wrote: »

The Minister does NOT HAVE THE RIGHT to delay the introduction of postcodes just because the organisation that currently delivers the post wants to protect its current position as the ONLY organisation that COULD deliver the post. The main reason being that postcodes have a far wider economic use beyond delivering letters. Business need them to make themselves more efficient and to eliminate costs that can easily be eliminated with a proper postcode system.

Secondly, the Minister does NOT HAVE THE RIGHT to waste millions of taxpayers euro designing a postcode system that has (with funding from Enterprise Ireland) already been designed.

Thirdly, the Minister does NOT HAVE THE RIGHT to risk spending millions of euro designing a system that might not work (like the eVoting and PPars payment system etc) when there is a system that does work and is reliable/proven.

Finally, the Minister does NOT HAVE THE RIGHT to WASTE millions of our hard earned taxes when the current postcode system that is out there, is proven and reliable, is FREE for him to use.

On your first point, there is no love lost between An Post and this government,cannot see the minister doing them any favors but for the rest i agree with you entirely ,sadly common sense rarely prevails,just heard bus fares are going up to make up revenue for falling passenger numbers!?!?where else would you get logic like that?

Leonard Shelby

Jack180570 wrote: »

IMHO the reason we don't have postcodes is down to inefficiency and lack of will, coupled with an organisation that if it co-operated with the introduction of postcodes would be like turkeys voting for Christmas, coupled with a Government Minister that has not got what it takes to govern and is either intellectually deficient or morally corrupt (neither being a positive in this situation), leading to, no postcodes for Ireland, simple really.

Since the above-mentioned organisation (which currently delivers letters in Ireland) was invited to design the postcode system and now is part of a consortium that has been successful in being awarded the tender 'subject to contract', I expect that the more or less 10 year delay in the introduction of the postcodes will continue to a 15 or 20 year delay. In fact it will continue for as long as it is allowed by Government. (in fairness hard to blame the organization who currently deliver the post for delaying a system that would most likely see them either working for less or looking for a new job).
Like I say, I don't blame them, I blame the Government and specifically the relevant minister.

Now I think the Minister needs to change his current course of action, because:

The Minister does NOT HAVE THE RIGHT to delay the introduction of postcodes just because the organisation that currently delivers the post wants to protect its current position as the ONLY organisation that COULD deliver the post. The main reason being that postcodes have a far wider economic use beyond delivering letters. Business need them to make themselves more efficient and to eliminate costs that can easily be eliminated with a proper postcode system.

Secondly, the Minister does NOT HAVE THE RIGHT to waste millions of taxpayers euro designing a postcode system that has (with funding from Enterprise Ireland) already been designed.

Thirdly, the Minister does NOT HAVE THE RIGHT to risk spending millions of euro designing a system that might not work (like the eVoting and PPars payment system etc) when there is a system that does work and is reliable/proven.

Finally, the Minister does NOT HAVE THE RIGHT to WASTE millions of our hard earned taxes when the current postcode system that is out there, is proven and reliable, is FREE for him to use.

The Minister needs to either do his job, or let someone else do the job.

An Post aren't part of the Capita consortium, isn't that obvious? Calm down Jack, the world isn't about to end...

recedite

Leonard Shelby wrote: »

An Post aren't part of the Capita consortium, isn't that obvious?

No, not really.

The Cush

What companies are part of the consortium? Haven't seen the list anywhere, maybe it won't be announced until all contract are signed.

Curly Judge

The Cush wrote: »

What companies are part of the consortium? Haven't seen the list anywhere, maybe it won't be announced until all contract are signed.

Whatever gave you the idea that we, the taxpayers, might be entitled to openness and transparency as to where our money is being spent.
My God man.... have you no sense of decorum?

Leonard Shelby

recedite wrote: »

No, not really.

An Post were the lead name in the consortium mentioned when they won the Lottery tender. So if they were part of this consortium it would have been made public by now, no reason not to...

Leonard Shelby

I was expecting to have heard more details by now, no sign of any announcements...

Leonard Shelby

Leonard Shelby wrote: »

I was expecting to have heard more details by now, no sign of any announcements...

They're in the post!

a65b2cd

Recent Dáil PQs: http://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2013-10-24a.13

Not much new there?

a65b2cd

http://www.simpsonftpr.ie/NewsDetails.php?NID=1271

Bearing Point and Autoaddress working with Capita.

ben101

More companies on board ,great, i can see this snowballing into a big cash cow for a lot of companies which we will be footing the bill for,now just sit back and watch that initial estimate quadruple into an 8 figure number.

recedite

Well I hope the "solutions" offered by these various companies turn out to be substantially more advantageous to the public than the much cheaper (and in some cases free) postcodes/location codes discussed earlier in this thread, but I doubt it.
When the civil service was first founded they had entrance exams which were considered quite challenging, and it was something like the Seanad in that the original intention was to have it composed of our most talented people who could solve administrative problems in the best interests of all the people.

Nowadays there is a whole industry of private advisors, lobbyists, consultants and "solutions providers" whose main talent is to have the right contacts in the right places allowing them to convert mundane administrative work into major private contracts.

ben101

recedite wrote: »

Nowadays there is a whole industry of private advisors, lobbyists, consultants and "solutions providers" whose main talent is to have the right contacts in the right places allowing them to convert mundane administrative work into major private contracts.

Hate to say it but you are 100% on the button.There is no way on gods earth they are going to account for every single house,flat business in the entire country for the fee they are stating,just like the senate all over again they are pulling figures out of the air ,they are flat out lying ,why we continue to put up with this cr*p from our leaders i do not know.

Curly Judge

Big fanfare about Capita getting contract to design and manage a postcode back in October. No contract was signed and then Bearing Point claimed they had the contract..

Now they are starting another tender to get someone to advise. So what was all the Capita announcement about???
https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/pu.../publictenders

Going around in circles I think!

Jack180570

It's a national disgrace.
In Ireland we already have the exact postcode system that Minister Rabbitte wants somebody to design. .. someone must have forgotten to tell Rabbitte that the state body Enterprise Ireland provided support to the Cork based Irish company who successfully designed and launched the postcode system.
The postcode system is out there, working and free for anyone to use. .. pity that politics and corruption has gotten in the way of a brilliant postcode system for Ireland

BailMeOut

Jack180570 wrote: »

The postcode system is out there, working and free for anyone to use. .

was this one free and open to the post office and all the shipping and courier companies to use or are just free for the actual codes on houses and businesses?

SpaceTime

It probably wasn't expensive enough or something like that.
If they'd included a requirement to launch a space programme and put up our own GPS system, then you'd have probably been onto a winner!

Honestly, at this stage, I have just given up on it though. Look how long this thread's open!?
We have been carrying out studies and 'introducing' postcodes since at least : 20-09-2009...
Clearly they're on the zero priority list.

At this rate, by the time they are introduced, we'll have already invented the transporter anyway and just have stuff beamed to your registered email address.

BailMeOut

SpaceTime wrote: »

It probably wasn't expensive enough or something like that.

Said this many times here but the technology needs to be owned by the Irish state as this is a very long term committal by the state. I'd have no problem making an offer to outright buy the technology from this Cork company if it is so good but we licensing forever is a terrible idea no matter how good it is.

Jack180570

Are you serious? So we can have another state owned enterprise, probably loosing millions a year due to incompetent and inefficient operation plus a CEO on half a million a year and employees on two or three times the average industrial wage... sorry but no. .. state should only be involved where there is market failure and we can clearly see the only failure here is because the state is involved.

BailMeOut wrote: »

Said this many times here but the technology needs to be owned by the Irish state as this is a very long term committal by the state. I'd have no problem making an offer to outright buy the technology from this Cork company if it is so good but we licensing forever is a terrible idea no matter how good it is.

Jack180570

Honesty can't explain it or understand it... just know the system is brilliant as we use it ourselves for delivering goods and for meeting up etc. Just would be great if everyone used in and included in their address. .. if implemented nationwide it would bring so many benefits not least of which would be a significant reduction in the cost of doing business in Ireland

SpaceTime wrote: »

It probably wasn't expensive enough or something like that.
If they'd included a requirement to launch a space programme and put up our own GPS system, then you'd have probably been onto a winner!

Honestly, at this stage, I have just given up on it though. Look how long this thread's open!?
We have been carrying out studies and 'introducing' postcodes since at least : 20-09-2009...
Clearly they're on the zero priority list.

At this rate, by the time they are introduced, we'll have already invented the transporter anyway and just have stuff beamed to your registered email address.

SpaceTime

BailMeOut wrote: »

Said this many times here but the technology needs to be owned by the Irish state as this is a very long term committal by the state. I'd have no problem making an offer to outright buy the technology from this Cork company if it is so good but we licensing forever is a terrible idea no matter how good it is.

The system should be owned by the state and probably managed by ComReg just like phone numbering.

BailMeOut

Jack180570 wrote: »

Are you serious? So we can have another state owned enterprise, probably loosing millions a year due to incompetent and inefficient operation plus a CEO on half a million a year and employees on two or three times the average industrial wage... sorry but no. .. state should only be involved where there is market failure and we can clearly see the only failure here is because the state is involved.

That's of course not what I was saying. You can read my other posts to see what I mean. Who runs it I do not care but the technology that maps the locations to a database and code needs to be owned by the Irish state so we can freely use it forever.

BailMeOut

SpaceTime wrote: »

The system should be owned by the state and probably managed by ComReg just like phone numbering.

exactly what have been saying and I have expressed my opinion in writing to the Minister as I do not think her reads these boards.

Jack180570

Ah.. like the State should introduce a national postcode system? and spend millions dicking around for the last ten years with sfa to show for it except for the millions in bills that I and other taxpayers have to pay. Are you serious? are you up to speed and aware of the disgraceful performance of government on this issue?

SpaceTime wrote: »

The system should be owned by the state and probably managed by ComReg just like phone numbering.

SpaceTime

Jack180570 wrote: »

Ah.. like the State should introduce a national postcode system? and spend millions dicking around for the last ten years with sfa to show for it except for the millions in bills that I and other taxpayers have to pay. Are you serious? are you up to speed and aware of the disgraceful performance of government on this issue?

The Government never gave the task to ComReg which would have been the very obvious agency to hand it to. Instead, they outsourced it (or at least made some attempt to tender it).

Not sure what the thinking behind that was when they'd a fully competent state body there ready to roll with experience of these things.

Aard

Deleted multiple duplicate posts by Jack180570.

Mod