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National Postcodes to be introduced
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One assumes the StateWill these new postcodes for Ireland be owned by a private company or the Irish state ?
In practice no, because Ireland would take up half the memory of a Europe-wide GPS device. The GPS market is very price competitive and Ireland has a small population - less than 1% of Europe's.Will they work well on satnavs instead of the current hit and miss system ?Why can't they introduce a simple grid reference system and use that for post codes ?
The grid reference already exists down to various levels of accuracy - the more accurate the more digits. If you built a house on the intersection of O'Connell Street and Bachelor's Walk, in D1, its grid referenced based code might be 53.347531, -6.259379. Which is not very user-friendly. Why shouldn't it be
1 O'Connell Street
1010 DUBLIN?
Anyone who subscribes to the unique building numbering database for Ireland would know that it is building number 10124812, just from entering 1010 and 1OC in the keyboard. But as a normal person your postcode would be 1010. If you had a PO Box it might be 1019. And if you were An Post GPO, it might be 1011 because you are a big user of the post.
Probably - but we already have a database (Geodirectory) which has grid references down to 1m. And then you have the issue of apartment numbers. - eg you need an ambulance and you are in apartment 1522 Westbrook Court, 1220 Dublin, the emergency services agent would not only have your lat and long to 1 metre but also the block number, building number floor number and apartment number and unique household number - all from you saying you live at 1522 Westbrook Court 1220. The keystrokes required from the call answering agent would be 1220 1522 W. Which is far easier for both parties - especially somebody ill rather than remembering 53.347531, -6.259379 or D22 W9HZ just after a heart attack or whatever emergency arose.
If it was accurate down to 25 meters or so wouldn't that be good enough for post / deliveries / and emergency services ?0 -
One assumes the State
In practice no, because Ireland would take up half the memory of a Europe-wide GPS device. The GPS market is very price competitive and Ireland has a small population - less than 1% of Europe's.
The grid reference already exists down to various levels of accuracy - the more accurate the more digits. If you built a house on the intersection of O'Connell Street and Bachelor's Walk, in D1, its grid referenced based code might be 53.347531, -6.259379. Which is not very user-friendly. Why shouldn't it be
1 O'Connell Street
1010 DUBLIN?
Anyone who subscribes to the unique building numbering database for Ireland would know that it is building number 10124812, just from entering 1010 and 1OC in the keyboard. But as a normal person your postcode would be 1010. If you had a PO Box it might be 1019. And if you were An Post GPO, it might be 1011 because you are a big user of the post.
Probably - but we already have a database (Geodirectory) which has grid references down to 1m. And then you have the issue of apartment numbers. - eg you need an ambulance and you are in apartment 1522 Westbrook Court, 1220 Dublin, the emergency services agent would not only have your lat and long to 1 metre but also the block number, building number floor number and apartment number and unique household number - all from you saying you live at 1522 Westbrook Court 1220. The keystrokes required from the call answering agent would be 1220 1522 W. Which is far easier for both parties - especially somebody ill rather than remembering 53.347531, -6.259379 or D22 W9HZ just after a heart attack or whatever emergency arose.
Thanks for the answers.
Were a lot of these issues not overcome by Loc8 codes, which seems to be a simple, useful, practical system, why not use a system similar to that ?0 -
This is a big issue in terms of public acceptability. Especially as people get older. I can remember the registration number of cars seen on the road walking to school when I was 6 years of age. Today. I bought a new car recently, and would have to do some research to find the number of same. It does not help that I had to send the first car they shipped back after three months, to the dealer because he screwed up on the spec.Sam Russell wrote: »It is a big ask. I might be able to remember my own - might now - but I will not keep anyone elses in my head.Sam Russell wrote: »To use D04 for the whole of Dublin 4 is a total waste of code space, and although it is memorable, just 14 would be more efficient, but 1269 defines a tiny area of Dublin 4.
The new code needs to relate to the old code. eg old was Dublin 4. New is 1040 or 104nn. A five digit numbering system would allow a place like D4 to be divided into up to 100 units - ie a street/road or two per code.Sam Russell wrote: »In the UK system, they had to have a system that would work for postmen sorting letters, so chose alpha codes related to place names but the did not use London for the London postcodes. SW1A is a London postcode, as is EC4. This of course had its own problem and a remaking might well cause them to use a completely different solution more like those used in the nearly the whole of the rest of the world.
The British postcode was developed in the 1960s in an era where a mainframe computer had probably 64k of memory. In the British system, the sorting is done based on the code. So is the barcoding. In the system used in Ireland and everywhere else in Europe virtually, the entire address is scanned and compared to a database of valid addresses, and a delivery package number is barcoded on the envelope. The format of this barcode has been standardised across Europe and many other countries. It is like an AWB on a DHL or Fedex package - when you are doing track and trace online. So the code barcoded on the envelope/package points to a database entry which includes the co-ordinates of the delivery address. This address might be in Mullingar or in Aix-en-Provence. With the British postcode based sorting, if the system mis-reads a postcode, the letter will go to the wrong delivery office, until somebody corrects the problem manually.
With the German system which Ireland uses, either the postal address as scanned matches a database of valid addresses or not. If not, it still gets its barcode number, but in this case a human has to look at a scanned image of the address on a VDU and enter the correct delivery code.
The presence of a numeric code greatly increases the chances of machine readability - especially if the numeric code is at the start of a line (ie before the town name).Sam Russell wrote: »Using numeric codes makes the system much more robust, another failing of the Eircode system, as each character has 30 or so possibles as opposed to just ten.
Overall, I think it will fail, and probably quite quickly. If the satnav companies refuse to take it up (and Garmin may lead the charge) then I think it is doomed.
Another eVoting fiasco.
100% agreed. Until the 1990s Britain did not publish the area code in a phone book. One looked up the number, and if successful found an "exchange name" (eg Romford) and 234566. You then had to refer to a "dialling code book" to find the area code for Romford - which varied, depending on where you were calling from. eg it might be 91 or 0708. Usually 91 if you were in a neighboring town or 0708 if you were in Manchester. 0708 was made up of, you guessed it, alphanumeric characters - ie 0RO8 - ie RO as in Romford. 0707 was not near Romford. It was in Hatfield in another county - 56 km distant. 0706 was in Rochdale in Lancashire.
Which is very like the proposed Eircode. When they ran out of numbers in Romford, they had to change the code to 01708. Moving the clock back 01 was the London area, then it became 071 and 081 and then 0171 and 0181, and finally it became 020. During all these changes of codes - Dublin which was based in Ireland's number only area code system remained 01.
An all number code is the most intelligent and user-friendly system - and works well with machines, OCR, phone dials, and at cash registers where a retailer wishes to record roughly where there customers come from.
The Eircode will be a BIG BRITISH STYLE MESS, PRESIDED OVER BY A BRITISH COMPANY, supported by idiot Irish politicians and a clueless civil service and imposed on a largely too polite to complain public victim base. The non-adoption of a road name/house number/short postcode system for every household and business address will cost several percent to Irelands GDP, due to delivery time wasted, finding time wasted, missed appointment deadlines, etc etc.0 -
Thanks for the answers.
Were a lot of these issues not overcome by Loc8 codes, which seems to be a simple, useful, practical system, why not use a system similar to that ?
I have no problem with the Loc8 code anymore than I have a problem with lat/long or the national grid reference. The issue is one of user-friendliness, acceptability by the entire nation, creating something that every human can find without the aid of a GPS or local knowledge - ie a sign says XYZ Road and a house has a 200 number on it. And even if it does not, the guy across the street has 205 on his house, so you can guess where 200 is.
If some people put the Eircode on their front gate, and I see C23 U766 on this gate and C23 X8IW on the next gate - as proposed with Eircode randomisation. What can I deduce? Not to mention the fact that there is no plan in the Eircode to attach a name to each road or a number to each building.
The Eircode has been designed by idiots who have never lived in a properly administered country.0 -
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The Eircode will be a BIG BRITISH STYLE MESS, PRESIDED OVER BY A BRITISH COMPANY, supported by idiot Irish politicians and a clueless civil service and imposed on a largely too polite to complain public victim base. The non-adoption of a road name/house number/short postcode system for every household and business address will cost several percent to Irelands GDP, due to delivery time wasted, finding time wasted, missed appointment deadlines, etc etc.
Thats total rubbish, no one is going to stop using their current address format and just put their Eircode on correspondence. Deliveries will stay just the same or improve they won't get worse.0 -
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If you were looking for house C23 N9RT, and they had not put up their postcode at their gate/front door. You could not deduce its position from the other postcodes.What exactly would anyone need to deduce in that scenario?
If on the other hand the person at houses 233 and 235 had the house number displayed, and you were looking for 234, its position would be obvious.0 -
If you were looking for house C23 N9RT, and they had not put up their postcode at their gate/front door. You could not deduce its position from the other postcodes.
If on the other hand the person at houses 233 and 235 had the house number displayed, and you were looking for 234, its position would be obvious.
People can still put house numbers on their doors and gates. Doesn't affect eircode.0 -
Thats total rubbish, no one is going to stop using their current address format and just put their Eircode on correspondence. Deliveries will stay just the same or improve they won't get worse.
It is not a question of reducing GDP - it is a question of increasing GDP by making the country more efficient.
Have you ever visited Switzerland, for example? If you are waiting in a railway station, you can go to a coffee bar for an expresso at 16h57, without worrying about missing the 1702 train to Zug which departs from track 17. And when you arrive in Zug all the streets have names and all the buildings have numbers. This focus on infrastructural perfection has made Switzerland one of the richest countries in the world - aside from a few countries living off oil and gas which is a non-sustainable source of wealth. Most of the same countries are among the most incompetently run on the planet. A country that exists on a four digit postcode system, and has done so for decades.0 -
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Thats total rubbish, no one is going to stop using their current address format and just put their Eircode on correspondence. Deliveries will stay just the same or improve they won't get worse.
Well don't bother with any postcode. Just give buildings that have no house number a number, and a road name. And define what town it is connected to.
However the absence of a district defining postcode is going to leave things messy, like they are now.
Ask anybody who has to deliver stuff. Or any public servant who has to gather statistics or government who has to run a country. Rural Ireland can't continue to live in "tents in the desert" mode.0 -
I have no problem with the Loc8 code anymore than I have a problem with lat/long or the national grid reference. The issue is one of user-friendliness, acceptability by the entire nation, creating something that every human can find without the aid of a GPS or local knowledge - ie a sign says XYZ Road and a house has a 200 number on it. And even if it does not, the guy across the street has 205 on his house, so you can guess where 200 is.
If some people put the Eircode on their front gate, and I see C23 U766 on this gate and C23 X8IW on the next gate - as proposed with Eircode randomisation. What can I deduce? Not to mention the fact that there is no plan in the Eircode to attach a name to each road or a number to each building.
The Eircode has been designed by idiots who have never lived in a properly administered country.
Are are people going to do away and/or leave out their house numbers and street names ? Is the code not an addition and very useful supplement to a traditional address rather than a replacement for it ?
(Sorry for all the questions, I'm just trying to understand what's so bad/good about this system compared to others.)0 -
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The 45% odd of houses with road names and street numbers will keep these. The other half had no road name or house number.But are people going to do away and/or leave out their house numbers and street names ? Is the code not an addition to a traditional address rather than a replacement for it ?
One of the big issues for the development of Ireland from being a Dublin centric running out of water metropolitan area (in one of the wettest countries on the planet) to making use of the entire country is one of road and rail transportation - much of which has been addressed with motorways etc, and address-ability. Which has not been addressed so far.
Turn the clock back. If Irish towns had no names. It would be no different to roaming in the Sahara desert in a four wheel drive. A road and an individual house are just a sub-set of a town. Few people want their town to be called XU6 Y5WQ.0 -
The 45% odd of houses with road names and street numbers will keep these. The other half had no road name or house number.
One of the big issues for the development of Ireland from being a Dublin centric running out of water metropolitan area (in one of the wettest countries on the planet) to making use of the entire country is one of road and rail transportation - much of which has been addressed with motorways etc, and address-ability. Which has not been addressed so far.
Turn the clock back. If Irish towns had no names. It would be no different to roaming in the Sahara desert in a four wheel drive. A road and an individual house are just a sub-set of a town. Few people want their town to be called XU6 Y5WQ.
Off topic, but I'm not so sure motorways leading to and from Dublin, along much the same lines as the 17th century road map of Ireland, can be considered a motorway 'network'
One large, well planned, multi lane orbital motorway could have catered for the whole Island of 6 million easily and left no one more than about 30 mins from that motorway. Instead Ireland's most disadvantaged counties are left more disadvantaged than ever, and we're only as strong as our weakest links. I like Dublin, but the mono city culture is not a healthy one for Ireland, or Dublin.
I agree that we don't do joined up thinking very well in this country, and with everything we do, we seem to keep setting out to try and reinvent the already invented wheel, and then inventing square wheels when we do, and being all pleased with them, thinking we were the first to invent a wheel. I can't understand why we don't examine other countries systems, pick the best ones, and then adapt and carefully improve them for Ireland.0 -
I don't disagree. But it's not eircode's issue to fix. No postcode can fix that
It is down to a matter of priorities. If you don't disagree that every premises should have a road/street address and premises number on that street, surely the Eircode-ized addressing system should get this correct from the start. You can't impose a postcode system without defining where each building is, in terms that a normal human being can relate to.
Most cars have a VIN (vehicle identification number). If you are in the market for a new car do you look for a VW Golf or perhaps a Mercedes Benz C200 or do you want to buy a WBAYF8C51ED141941?0 -
Off topic, but I'm not so sure motorways leading to and from Dublin, along much the same lines as the 17th century road map of Ireland, can be considered a motorway 'network'
One large, well planned, multi lane orbital motorway could have catered for the whole Island of 6 million easily and left no one more than about 30 mins from that motorway. Instead Ireland's most disadvantaged counties are left more disadvantaged than ever, and we're only as strong as our weakest links. I like Dublin, but the mono city culture is not a healthy one for Ireland, or Dublin.
I agree that we don't do joined up thinking very well in this country, and with everything we do, we seem to keep setting out to try and reinvent the already invented wheel, and then inventing square wheels when we do, and being all pleased with them, thinking we were the first to invent a wheel. I can't understand why we don't examine other countries systems, pick the best ones, and then adapt and carefully improve them for Ireland.
I agree. The E20/E201 from Dublin to Cork combined with an arc radial motorway running from say Donegal to Galway to Limerick intersecting with the E201, and onwards to Waterford and Wexford would be have been cheaper, less wasteful of agricultural land, and offer faster journey times, be economically better for the country as a whole etc etc. Parts of the Dublin Cork route are totally jammed at rush-hour and really need 8 or 10 lanes in parts of KE. Meanwhile many other motorway kms are totally wasted even projecting for traffic volumes in 2030. But that was said to the people in power back in the day, out loud, and fell on deaf ears. And the same dysfunctional political/permanent government pig pigheadedness is unfortunately glaringly evident in postcodeland.ie0 -
I agree. The E20/E201 from Dublin to Cork combined with an arc radial motorway running from say Donegal to Galway to Limerick intersecting with the E201, and onwards to Waterford and Wexford would be have been cheaper, less wasteful of agricultural land, and offer faster journey times, be economically better for the country as a whole etc etc. Parts of the Dublin Cork route are totally jammed at rush-hour and really need 8 or 10 lanes in parts of KE. Meanwhile many other motorway kms are totally wasted even projecting for traffic volumes in 2030. But that was said to the people in power back in the day, out loud, and fell on deaf ears. And the same dysfunctional political/permanent government pig pigheadedness is unfortunately glaringly evident in postcodeland.ie
Yep, you don't hear other countries bumming about their national primary "by-passes" the way we were back when we had all the EU structural funding and our own money. Crazy thing to be at, when one well planned orbital motorway and rail network for the whole Island, would have solved the whole lot permanently for generations, and the EU would have paid for it all when they were giving us the structural funds. Instead we squandered the EU structural funds on thousands of hair brained local parish pump projects. I really do wonder about our fitness and ability to govern ourselves at times. Sorry off topic I know, but vagely connected in way, i.e. the same type of short sighted mistakes over and over again.0 -
All roads lead to Rome Dublin, and that's how the planners have prioritised the motorway network. Way OT but the government would be better off pushing harder at getting work out into the rest of the country. I DO believe that they ARE trying, but it isn't working as well as it should.
Having a severe rush hour traffic problem in a country as sparsely populated as Ireland, is more of a spacial issue rather than a transportation one.0 -
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Are are people going to do away and/or leave out their house numbers and street names ? Is the code not an addition and very useful supplement to a traditional address rather than a replacement for it ?
(Sorry for all the questions, I'm just trying to understand what's so bad/good about this system compared to others.)
Perhaps you might explain what is useful about assigning a random number to your house or apartment, and a completely different random number to your neighbour?
If you feel the need to high resolution postcodes that are compatible with the international postal and database system on websites etc look at the Dutch postcode. eg 1010 FE points to about 20 houses. Add 47 after 1010 FE to get 1010 FE 47 and you have a unique identifier. 47 being the house number. This allows the user to give their postcode as 1010, or 1010 FE or 1010 FE 47 - depending on the level of disclosure they are comfortable with in relation to the other party. And of course in Ireland' case you still have to deal with the issue of rural addresses - giving them a road name based probably on the townland name and a building number, probably based on metrics.0 -
Perhaps you might explain what is useful about assigning a random number to your house or apartment, and a completely different random number to your neighbour?
It means rather than anyone being able to figure out the postcode for anywhere by just looking up a postcode map, you and your connected cronie company can make a fortune off the back of the Irish taxpayer and the transport industry, the cost of which will be passed onto the good old Irish consumer again. It'll be a done deal before the Irish public cop on. They are only starting to cop on to Irish Water now, and it was a done deal 5 years ago or more. (I've nothing against fair and proper water charging btw)0 -
Deleted User wrote: »All roads lead to Rome Dublin, and that's how the planners have prioritised the motorway network. Way OT but the government would be better off pushing harder at getting work out into the rest of the country. I DO believe that they ARE trying, but it isn't working as well as it should.
Having a severe rush hour traffic problem in a country as sparsely populated as Ireland, is more of a spacial issue rather than a transportation one.
I beg to disagree. On the E20 (N7) there is adequate land for 8 to 10 lanes. And while I accept that there are difficulties distributing the traffic from a 10 lane motorway arriving in the Dublin direction, the traffic does land on the M50 with 6 lanes in each direction. Not a big dispersion problem. The big issue is outside of Dublin. Where large sums have been spent (wasted) building motorways that carry very few vehicles. Resulting in a drive from one city to another being a big pain in the neck unless one of the cities in the pair is Dublin.
And while one might glibly refer to Rome, if you have a look at http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=9/45.0483/9.1269 you will notice that the autostrada network is very well spread over this largely mountainous country.0 -
I think that you have missed the point of my comment, the point I was making is that Dublin is treated as the centre of the (Irish) universe and that all roads leading there are strained. The solution is not more roads but more work in the regions.I beg to disagree. On the E20 (N7) there is adequate land for 8 to 10 lanes. And while I accept that there are difficulties distributing the traffic from a 10 lane motorway arriving in the Dublin direction, the traffic does land on the M50 with 6 lanes in each direction. Not a big dispersion problem. The big issue is outside of Dublin. Where large sums have been spent (wasted) building motorways that carry very few vehicles. Resulting in a drive from one city to another being a big pain in the neck unless one of the cities in the pair is Dublin.0 -
I think a lot of the arguments here are moot because those that do the actual deliveries will probably take no notice of the postcode whatever form is used.
The postman knows where everyone on his run lives and the courier drivers know who gets stuff on a regular bases so its only in a minority of cases that a postcode will be of any use at all.
The courier driver who has to come out to me is still going to phone me before coming out postcode or no postcode and my telephone number is more use than any postcode system.0 -
Ok, give them a crappy solution and tell them its mandatory to use it for any and all state business. The plebs will have no choice but to suck it up. Like an old fashioned state monopoly, except this piece of crap went out to private tender. And to make it worse, certain people who were in on the design of the tender (on behalf of us taxpayers) were also in the private consortium that won the tender. Coincidence or what.what does the public expect in this day and age? they are expecting a postcode, they'll be given a postcode. they'll use it anytime they hear and anywhere they see "postcode"
this idea of it not being used isn't valid in my opinion
1. Nonsense. A genuine code contains info. That's why it called a code.Those are just a list of attributes of the code. i can't see anything of extra benefit in having the things you've listed.
1. Any code needs to be linked to a database to be any good
2. what reason have you to generalise it locally to your area?
3. Sat navs have POI's for these things, its not an issue, and google maps will find them easily too
This whole thing of "i want to be able to pin point a field in ballysomewhere and eircode can't do that" its a complete nonsense argument. its ridiculous. its such a non issue that its totally irrelevant..
2. Data protection etc.. Maybe I don't want every randomer on the internet being able to pinpoint my exact home address.
3. Pre programmed POI's are very limited. If I want to arrange to meet other people at a particular place, the sat nav normally doesn't show the spot I'm thinking of.
Why are you so against the notion that we should adopt some other system that gives all these extra benefits, yet costs less? Why are you so keen on pushing eircode, warts and all?0 -
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Sure the postman who does the job every day knows - but the competing carrier might only visit some house once in the blue moon. You don't want your Amazon package delayed, especially that there are so few opportunities to buy the precise stuff you require online from Irish retailers.I think a lot of the arguments here are moot because those that do the actual deliveries will probably take no notice of the postcode whatever form is used.
The postman knows where everyone on his run lives and the courier drivers know who gets stuff on a regular bases so its only in a minority of cases that a postcode will be of any use at all.
The courier driver who has to come out to me is still going to phone me before coming out postcode or no postcode and my telephone number is more use than any postcode system.0 -
Deleted User wrote: »I think that you have missed the point of my comment, the point I was making is that Dublin is treated as the centre of the (Irish) universe and that all roads leading there are strained. The solution is not more roads but more work in the regions.
Which is why I am suggesting that every building in the country should have a road name, street number, postcode and town name. Only a few cities and towns have this - and none has a proper postcode to enable businesses to manage the entire country and the logistics required using a simple four or five digit number. Complexity of townland names and local knowledge is the enemy of prosperity.0 -
Sure the postman who does the job every day knows - but the competing carrier might only visit some house once in the blue moon. You don't want your Amazon package delayed, especially that there are so few opportunities to buy the precise stuff you require online from Irish retailers.
The competing carrier wants to know that I'll be in so he doesn't waste his time calling if I'm out hence my phone number is more use than a Loc8 code.0 -
Why are you so against the notion that we should adopt some other system that gives all these extra benefits, yet costs less? Why are you so keen on pushing eircode, warts and all?
I'm just sick of the hysteria on here from people who are over dramatising things.
I think the code will be of benefit, and I'm sick of it getting bashed to death on here and wild claims of "no one will use it!"
You want a code that's suits you. Eircode will suit me just fine so in not against it.
The country will start using it and companies / country will see the benefits
There's a whole lot of wild and ludacris statements on this forum from a small number of people with a vested interest.
The rest of the country will get their postcode and start using it.0 -
I'm just sick of the hysteria on here from people who are over dramatising things.
I think the code will be of benefit, and I'm sick of it getting bashed to death on here and wild claims of "no one will use it!"
You want a code that's suits you. Eircode will suit me just fine so in not against it.
The country will start using it and companies / country will see the benefits
There's a whole lot of wild and ludacris statements on this forum from a small number of people with a vested interest.
The rest of the country will get their postcode and start using it.
AND ridiculous PM's sent by users with an axe to grind.
I'll start using my Eircode as soon as I know what it is, I really doubt it will make much difference but at least if my house can be uniquely identified there is no excuse for correctly addressed mail and parcels not to arrive even if the couriers don't have much of a clue what any postcode is.
I do love saying what a dodo Loc8 is because of the rampant unsolicited PM I got from a user with zero posts on boards.ie telling me that ukoda has no right to decide what is right for the country.0 -
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AND ridiculous PM's sent by users with an axe to grind.
I'll start using my Eircode as soon as I know what it is, I really doubt it will make much difference but at least if my house can be uniquely identified there is no excuse for correctly addressed mail and parcels not to arrive even if the couriers don't have much of a clue what any postcode is.
I do love saying what a dodo Loc8 is because of the rampant unsolicited PM I got from a user with zero posts on boards.ie telling me that ukoda has no right to decide what is right for the country.
This post suggests to me that the poster does not understand Loc8Code, because Loc8Code does exactly that and MORE, one can assign a Loc8Code to the business office in a large complex, the maintenance department at the other end of the site and so forth, farmers already us it to identify their milking parlous rather than their actual letterbox for milk collection and servicing companies. And so on.0 -
Right this thread has jumped the shark in a big way with fanatic anti government posts declaring chaos and corruption! Here's the facts:
A new postcode has already been created for every building in the country. This will not be reversed so now we have a postcode. Done!
The problem this postcode has is that the geographic element (first 3 characters) is like an old style European postcode except the areas covered are quite big and will be of little use for finding addresses
They had the opportunity to use the following 4 characters for use as a geographic element as well but they did not. This will not change.
Instead we have a pseudo random collection of characters which identifies an exact house instead of an area. You may not like it but that will not change. The good part of this is that you will now be able to look up the actual address of any postcode in yhe country using (likely) your gps or google maps.
So what are we left with? The code will be used in every government communication as of next year and (likely) all communications from big utilities. People will also enter postcodes online for deliveries, you would be mad not to as it will be so much easier to find your house when its used
Who doesn't like it? People who hate the government and complain about all big schemes because of corruption and cronieism, fanboys and employees of loc8, the logistics industry who complained about the lack of a postcode causing the high price of delivery
Are they're concerns valid? Probably but ultimately it doesn't matter, like it or not we now have an official postcod. You want emergency services to get to you quickly, now they can for every address in the country, you want a parcel delivered without having to include instructions or getting a phone call from the driver, now you can for every address in the country
The code is not perfect but it is finalised and official, if you don't like it don't use it but it will be required when dealing with the government0 -
Sam Russell wrote: »It is a big ask. I might be able to remember my own - might now -
As example, I'm using my Loc8Code for four years already, do I remember it? No. It comes up automatically anywhere I've ordered goods previously, it comes up on my personal smart devices if I've used it previously after the first two letters are inputted.
Anything new though and I have to look up where I've stored it. The beauty with the Loc8Code is the is all one need to send to say a courier for them to find your delivery address [front door, not suitable in apartment blocks].0 -
The good part of this is that you will now be able to look up the actual address of any postcode in yhe country using (likely) your gps or google maps. People will also enter postcodes online for deliveries, you would be mad not to as it will be so much easier to find your house when its used
Seemingly this is in fact the biggest problem, if we are to believe people in the transport business, it does not.0 -
Join Date:Posts: 19537
Right this thread has jumped the shark in a big way with fanatic anti government posts declaring chaos and corruption! Here's the facts:
A new postcode has already been created for every building in the country. This will not be reversed so now we have a postcode. Done!
The problem this postcode has is that the geographic element (first 3 characters) is like an old style European postcode except the areas covered are quite big and will be of little use for finding addresses
They had the opportunity to use the following 4 characters for use as a geographic element as well but they did not. This will not change.
Instead we have a pseudo random collection of characters which identifies an exact house instead of an area. You may not like it but that will not change. The good part of this is that you will now be able to look up the actual address of any postcode in yhe country using (likely) your gps or google maps.
So what are we left with? The code will be used in every government communication as of next year and (likely) all communications from big utilities. People will also enter postcodes online for deliveries, you would be mad not to as it will be so much easier to find your house when its used
Who doesn't like it? People who hate the government and complain about all big schemes because of corruption and cronieism, fanboys and employees of loc8, the logistics industry who complained about the lack of a postcode causing the high price of delivery
Are they're concerns valid? Probably but ultimately it doesn't matter, like it or not we now have an official postcod. You want emergency services to get to you quickly, now they can for every address in the country, you want a parcel delivered without having to include instructions or getting a phone call from the driver, now you can for every address in the country
The code is not perfect but it is finalised and official, if you don't like it don't use it but it will be required when dealing with the government
The late Seamus Brennan when minister responsible cancelled the new signage for Dublin because he thaught it was awful and sent it back for redesign. There is a new minister now and he may be open to take a look at this before it is a laughing joke.0 -
Red Nissan wrote: »As example, I'm using my Loc8Code for four years already, do I remember it? No. It comes up automatically anywhere I've ordered goods previously, it comes up on my personal smart devices if I've used it previously after the first two letters are inputted.
Anything new though and I have to look up where I've stored it. The beauty with the Loc8Code is the is all one need to send to say a courier for them to find your delivery address [front door, not suitable in apartment blocks].
you don't remember your loc8 code because its obscure and its up to you to decide to use it.
Eircode will be everywhere:
Every Letter/parcel that arrives in your home
every time you call a company
every time you order online
every interaction you have with the government
When your electricity goes, it will the what the utility asks for when you call
the list goes on
there will be a substantial marketing campaign behind it too
It will be remembered because people will have no choice.
This 'beauty of loc8code' you mention - seems to me eircode will do exactly that too.
Im sure there were people back in the day insisting that no one will be able to remember their landline number, their car reg etc etc:rolleyes:0 -
The pseudo random thing is probably due to lobbying from paranoid privacy fanatics.
Ireland has gone to the stage that hardly anyone is in the telephone directory too due to this mentality.
There were TDs a few years ago from FG mentioning they're were going to oppose postcodes to avoid junk mail !0 -
Not with an in-car sat nav, you won't; it won't have the memory to support the database. But an app could probably be developed to allow a GPS enabled smartphone (also equipped with mobile broadband) to look up the address on the database and then navigate to it. The only problem there is that they have recently made it illegal to consult/input/hold the phone while driving.Instead we have a pseudo random collection of characters which identifies an exact house instead of an area. You may not like it but that will not change. The good part of this is that you will now be able to look up the actual address of any postcode in the country using (likely) your gps or google maps.
I doubt it. That's what this discussion is all about. The proposed eircode is not fit for (that) purpose. Its just PPS numbers for houses. If the purpose is to create a database with a unique identifier for every house in Ireland, in order to see who has paid their property tax, water charges, and/or registered their septic tank, then it will be fine for that purpose... you want a parcel delivered without having to include instructions or getting a phone call from the driver, now you can for every address in the country..0 -
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Not with an in-car sat nav, you won't; it won't have the memory to support the database. But an app could probably be developed to allow a GPS enabled smartphone (also equipped with mobile broadband) to look up the address on the database and then navigate to it. The only problem there is that they have recently made it illegal to consult/input/hold the phone while driving.
Thats not true. The memory of a standard sat nav is around 8gb for Ireland and UK, if they were to add the eircode to their existing database it would be a very small update, prob less than half a gb, plenty of room, If Garmin are willing to release updates to their devices for the obscure Loc8code that a tiny percentage of people use, id say its a safe bet they'll have no problem releasing updates for a national official postcode.
The minister has also clarified that taxi's and others using a dash mount for their phone to navigate are exempt - i.e. Hailo cabs etc, this article explains it in lay man terms http://gometro.ie/2014/04/those-confusing-new-mobile-driving-rules-explained/I doubt it. That's what this discussion is all about. The proposed eircode is not fit for (that) purpose. Its just PPS numbers for houses. If the purpose is to create a database with a unique identifier for every house in Ireland, in order to see who has paid their property tax, water charges, and/or registered their septic tank, then it will be fine for that purpo
We have a property ID for this so its couldn't have been a consideration in eircodes design
The code is fit for purpose. Every package that arrives in a delivery office can be scanned and their software can ping the eircode database for the geo coordinates and instantly optimise a delivery schedule and route. if they can't figure this out. they shouldn't be running a delivery company.0 -
Join Date:Posts: 19537
The code is fit for purpose. Every package that arrives in a delivery office can be scanned and their software can ping the eircode database for the geo coordinates and instantly optimise a delivery schedule and route. if they can't figure this out. they shouldn't be running a delivery company.
There is a data usage charge that in not trivial, and in the order of €5k plus for the likes of a delivery company. I think that might make it irrelevant for most such companies.
I beleive the charges are based on 'pings' per data access. That is an open licence to print money for some one - and I doubt it will be the state.
But that is only one of my objections to this idiotic scheme. The only aspect that is OK is the fixed length code.
The code is an entry on a database to index it. If the code was divide into two parts, one that located down to about 100 addresses, the other (private) bit that went to each address, I would have no problem, It is the fact that the first part (D04) is for about 10,000 addresses that has me opposed to it.
If it is a disaster, it will not take much to redesign it.0 -
Sam Russell wrote: »There is a data usage charge that in not trivial, and in the order of €5k plus for the likes of a delivery company. I think that might make it irrelevant for most such companies.
I beleive the charges are based on 'pings' per data access. That is an open licence to print money for some one - and I doubt it will be the state.
But that is only one of my objections to this idiotic scheme. The only aspect that is OK is the fixed length code.
The code is an entry on a database to index it. If the code was divide into two parts, one that located down to about 100 addresses, the other (private) bit that went to each address, I would have no problem, It is the fact that the first part (D04) is for about 10,000 addresses that has me opposed to it.
If it is a disaster, it will not take much to redesign it.
Again. If they can't work the numbers and realise that expenditure of 5k = optimisation and efficiency cost of Xk (highly likely to be more than 5k) then they shouldn't be running a delivery company.
And again to point out. No one knows the actual fees yet.0 -
Join Date:Posts: 19537
Again. If they can't work the numbers and realise that expenditure of 5k = optimisation and efficiency cost of Xk (highly likely to be more than 5k) then they shouldn't be running a delivery company.
And again to point out. No one knows the actual fees yet.
Remember, these are the same companies that refuse to pay tolls on the motorways and divert to avoid them. If it too much dosh, they will not use them.
I agree, the code charges are likely to be a lot more than €5k, particularly for large operations. It is a scam in my book.0 -
Then you will need to affix a routing code on the package to provide the route information to the sorter and the driver to ensure it is brought to the correct delivery van and to ensure it is dropped off at the correct point on this optimised route.
What you are describing is a very complex way of going about the very simple business of sorting boxes.0 -
antoinolachtnai wrote: »Then you will need to affix a routing code on the package to provide the route information to the sorter and the driver to ensure it is brought to the correct delivery van and to ensure it is dropped off at the correct point on this optimised route.
What you are describing is a very complex way of going about the very simple business of sorting boxes.
They can make it as simple or as complicated as they want. That choice is theirs.0 -
Sam Russell wrote: »Remember, these are the same companies that refuse to pay tolls on the motorways and divert to avoid them. If it too much dosh, they will not use them.
I agree, the code charges are likely to be a lot more than €5k, particularly for large operations. It is a scam in my book.
I actually meant the savings are likely to be more than the 5k database cost. So they'd stand to save money using it0 -
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Pseudo random does nothing in reality to protect privacy. Those who pay for the database (who are potentially the largest / maybe even only) risk to privacy will not be impacted by randomization. It is only your typical small businessman or equivalent who provides a delivery service or fixes your washing machine will have his life made difficult / no better due to the focus on random junk postcodes - rather than a simple road name and house number being a universal part of the national infrastructure. If you put a complex coding structure into Google maps etc, you create a new platform for the NSA & co to log and track whoever visits your home or you might meet in a restaurant.The pseudo random thing is probably due to lobbying from paranoid privacy fanatics.
Ireland has gone to the stage that hardly anyone is in the telephone directory too due to this mentality.
There were TDs a few years ago from FG mentioning they're were going to oppose postcodes to avoid junk mail !
Switzerland publishes car registrations. The license plate is in the name of the driver (aside from car rentals), which one can look up for any Canton. If you change your car, you have to put your license plate on the new car etc. The big issue is a matter of trust. Switzerland has direct democracy, and every law can be overturned by popular vote, which is typically done after church on Sunday - and the results of the referendum are usually published before dinner time. In other words the people know they are in control - not some proxy of officialdom or politics or permanent government. (This requires the population to be educated, so we don't end up in a California situation where the state is bankrupt because of the non-stop demands for government expenditure via referenda).
I'd put the phonebook shrinkage largely down to the growth of mobile phone dependence. And the internet. Mobile phone calls cost a fortune compared with landline calls, the sound quality is poorer, and mobile conveys unknown health risks. The more traffic that goes over mobile, the more cellsite mast pollution. And few if any mobile terminals have phonebook entries.
And Eircom's closure of its retail premises for several years. And the poor regulation of mobile phone networks which allowed them to subsidize the price of a phone, which is de-facto usury. One would contrast the Irish position with Switzerland where directories.ch has up to the minute information for everybody (with many mobile phone numbers and google map links to their home location, and there is a Swisscom shop in virtually every shopping mall, town centre where you can get a landline, business phone system, home or business internet, buy cloud capacity, a new mobile phone, television, whatever you need in the coms area. And it is controlled and mainly owned by the Swiss federal government - not some hedge fund, a la Eircom who charge more than any other network on the planet for a phone line. And the Swiss gov. takes action to stop spying on people - eg they are currently engaged in legal action in Geneva against US spys, following up on data from Snowden revelations. (Snowden lived in GVA with a US diplomatic passport....) No other country has taken legal action as a result of the Snowden revelations, aside from CH.0 -
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Adding the eircode would be of no use, because the eircode does not contain the location co-ordinates or any useful info (beyond the basic D4 or whatever postal district itis) The actual (constantly changing) database which the eircode "looks up" will not fit on a sat nav.Thats not true. The memory of a standard sat nav is around 8gb for Ireland and UK, if they were to add the eircode to their existing database it would be a very small update, prob less than half a gb, plenty of room..0
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