National Postcodes to be introduced

Leonard Shelby

Froststop wrote: »

Capita were offered contract for post code as far as I'm aware, and they collect unpaid TV licence fees and other unpaid charges in the UK. Wait and see they will be knocking on our doors to collect unpaid water charges, property tax, TV Licences and maybe even to evict you. Plenty videos on YouTube about them.

Unpaid charges and taxes should be collected. If a postcode database makes it more efficient then I'm all for it. An efficient collection process benefits everyone, and is most fair. Revenue or whoever can use the database to assist collection, it won't need Capita to be involved, it's simply a database.

ben101

I can't see this unique postal system working for mail delivery unless An Post have a bigger input.Whatever way they break the addresses into zones probably won't fit into the way the D.O.'S are now.one set of postal codes could straddle 4 or 5 existing D.O.s ,meaning it would be useless for mail sorting,a lot of mail would be going to the Wrong D.O..An Post aren't going to change every delivery in the country to fit a new system,it will probably be ignored.Ironic considering its supposed to be a post code system.

Leonard Shelby

ben101 wrote: »

I can't see this unique postal system working for mail delivery unless An Post have a bigger input.Whatever way they break the addresses into zones probably won't fit into the way the D.O.'S are now.one set of postal codes could straddle 4 or 5 existing D.O.s ,meaning it would be useless for mail sorting,a lot of mail would be going to the Wrong D.O..An Post aren't going to change every delivery in the country to fit a new system,it will probably be ignored.Ironic considering its supposed to be a post code system.

First three characters do that, so not a problem.

Trick of the Tail

If you read back in this thread (it might take some time) you'll see why there's actually no need for a post code system.

An Post are perfectly capable of delivering mail without them. Character recognition software used in automated sorting is very accurate these days, far more so when post codes were first postulated in the UK some 50 years ago.

The modern systems recognise the addresses on the mail, and converts it to the proprietary coding system that An Post own.

Nope, be of no doubt; the current 'need' for postcodes is not for post. But what Ireland does need is a system by which anyone or any agency, like emergency services, government bodies (think property tax, water metering etc) can find a building.

Also, private delivery companies would be able to use it.

The resulting code can then be sold to marketeers for junk mail purposes and used by government agencies for various tasks, some nefarious, some not so.

Unfortunately, the government has decided, in the usual government way, that existing systems developed privately and working perfectly aren't good enough. They need to throw countless millions of our money at reinventing the wheel.

That some of their acolytes and friends might be involved, is seen as a bonus.

In a sane world, a government that was offered, at no charge to the public purse, a pre-existing system that is already developed and works perfectly, would say 'Thank you'.

However, governments (especially ones instilled with corruption and self-serving tendencies) do not like gift-horses.

ben101

Leonard Shelby wrote: »

First three characters do that, so not a problem.

Yes but who decides what are those 3 digits cover.An independent body would be unlikely to break the zones into exactly the way An Post have broken theirs.For example lets say Swords is 555 ,Finglas is 333 ,Santry is 444.Problem is Swords office just doesn't deliver to swords,It delivers right up to near the Meath border.You could have 6 or 7 different area codes for the one office,I also know of one point where 4 or five D.O.'s converge where mail addressed under one district was delivered by another as it made more sense on a practical level.You could give one Rd one code but it might intersect 3 offices ,making it logistically more sense to split it up but the person breaking these areas up won't have a detailed knowledge of which different D.O.'s operate in one area and would probably break them up in a way that would cause chaos for sorting.
Just thought of something else,the UK system would probably be much better ,you would have the safety cushion of breaking the addresses into
blocks of 20,40,80 etc.That might work.The only place i heard of using unique codes is Singapore and that is a highly dense city with most people living in flats,No sprawled out estates or farms,Probably no duplicate addresses either.

Leonard Shelby

Trick of the Tail wrote: »

If you read back in this thread (it might take some time) you'll see why there's actually no need for a post code system.

An Post are perfectly capable of delivering mail without them. Character recognition software used in automated sorting is very accurate these days, far more so when post codes were first postulated in the UK some 50 years ago.

The modern systems recognise the addresses on the mail, and converts it to the proprietary coding system that An Post own.

Nope, be of no doubt; the current 'need' for postcodes is not for post. But what Ireland does need is a system by which anyone or any agency, like emergency services, government bodies (think property tax, water metering etc) can find a building.

Also, private delivery companies would be able to use it.

The resulting code can then be sold to marketeers for junk mail purposes and used by government agencies for various tasks, some nefarious, some not so.

Unfortunately, the government has decided, in the usual government way, that existing systems developed privately and working perfectly aren't good enough. They need to throw countless millions of our money at reinventing the wheel.

That some of their acolytes and friends might be involved, is seen as a bonus.

In a sane world, a government that was offered, at no charge to the public purse, a pre-existing system that is already developed and works perfectly, would say 'Thank you'.

However, governments (especially ones instilled with corruption and self-serving tendencies) do not like gift-horses.

So to summarize, postcode isn't needed, and they should have chosen Loc8 as the postcode! Nonsense.

Froststop

Leonard Shelby wrote: »

Unpaid charges and taxes should be collected. If a postcode database makes it more efficient then I'm all for it. An efficient collection process benefits everyone, and is most fair. Revenue or whoever can use the database to assist collection, it won't need Capita to be involved, it's simply a database.

The data protection act prevents sharing of info without your permission. That statement reminded me of a capita employees attitude on YouTube videos!

I suspect an agenda is lurking behind the scenes. Are you not on another forum under the same name promoting Capita and using A65 B2CD as an example post code which also seems to be a user name of a poster on this thread!

Trick of the Tail

Like I said - An Post don't need postcodes.

Loc8 is one system that pre-exists and works.

It would be very easy to come up with a system to register a geo-based code to every dwelling and other premises. Cost the taxpayer a fraction of what it's gonna cost to design another system.

Why is that nonsense?

Leonard Shelby

Froststop wrote: »

The data protection act prevents sharing of info without your permission. That statement reminded me of a capita employees attitude on YouTube videos!

I suspect an agenda is lurking behind the scenes. Are you not on another forum under the same name promoting Capita and using A65 B2CD as an example post code which also seems to be a user name of a poster on this thread!

Try limiting yourself to one conspiracy theory per post. Postcode data is covered by Data Protection Act, sharing of customer information without permission is precluded.
A65 B2CD is the example postcode in press releases, RTE News etc. You'll have to move onto your next conspiracy....one at a time please.

Froststop

Leonard Shelby wrote: »

Try limiting yourself to one conspiracy theory per post. Postcode data is covered by Data Protection Act, sharing of customer information without permission is precluded.
A65 B2CD is the example postcode in press releases, RTE News etc. You'll have to move onto your next conspiracy....one at a time please.

Do you deny the fact regarding the other forum?

Leonard Shelby

Froststop wrote: »

Do you deny the fact regarding the other forum?

Just so you're clear, this is Leonard Shelby admitting to being Leonard Shelby...shock horror!

Leonard Shelby

Trick of the Tail wrote: »

Like I said - An Post don't need postcodes.

Loc8 is one system that pre-exists and works.

It would be very easy to come up with a system to register a geo-based code to every dwelling and other premises. Cost the taxpayer a fraction of what it's gonna cost to design another system.

Why is that nonsense?

Firstly, Loc8 code doesn't work. See Ben101 comment about compatibility issues with An Post D.O.'s which the chosen postcode doesn't have. It also can't generate unique postcodes for every address.

Secondly, the postcode design is done, A65 B2CD doesn't exactly leave a lot left to be designed does it? It isn't rocket science. What do you think they are doing, putting 50 people in a room and having them debate whether the letter A should be used in the fourth position, then coming back the next week and discussing B......

This postcode design and location code designs are trivial exercises, the fact that it has taken some people a lot of effort to create theirs is a comment on their competence, not an objective evaluation of the difficulty of the problem.

Trick of the Tail

How can you say Loc8 doesn't work? It demonstrably does work.

If I put a Loc8 code into my sat nav it leads me to the premises. That's all it needs to do.

It doesn't need to identify the individual apartment, the apartment number does that.

Nor does it need to be directly translatable to An Post's sorting system; if it were, then it would have to be altered if An Post altered their routes/sorting office jurisdictions - which they do.

An Post's internal system is NOT a postcode. It's a cryptogram used by automated postal sorting. It is not designed to indicate a precise premises.

With a proper, modern, location-based code (I prefer not to use the word 'postcode') then every building that needed to be found, every pylon, water pump station, cow shed, yard or hole in the ground could have a code enabling it to be delivered to.

This country's finances are in the toilet. If we can get a useful system such as this officially implemented at no cost to the taxpayer, then what's not to like?

Froststop

Leonard Shelby wrote: »

Firstly, Loc8 code doesn't work. See Ben101 comment about compatibility issues with An Post D.O.'s which the chosen postcode doesn't have. It also can't generate unique postcodes for every address.

Secondly, the postcode design is done, A65 B2CD doesn't exactly leave a lot left to be designed does it? It isn't rocket science. What do you think they are doing, putting 50 people in a room and having them debate whether the letter A should be used in the fourth position, then coming back the next week and discussing B......

This postcode design and location code designs are trivial exercises, the fact that it has taken some people a lot of effort to create theirs is a comment on their competence, not an objective evaluation of the difficulty of the problem.

BS! How can you say it dose not work?
Your pushing/promoting A65 B2CD, while blatantly rubbishing other systems!! Who is the Moderator on this thread?? I thought promoting business or products is not allowed here??

Leonard Shelby

Froststop wrote: »

BS! How can you say it dose not work?
Your pushing/promoting A65 B2CD, while blatantly rubbishing other systems!! Who is the Moderator on this thread?? I thought promoting business or products is not allowed here??

The postcode tender has been awarded, the postcode design has been finalised, there is nothing to promote.
Read the Dept of Communications press release. Calm down.

Froststop

Leonard Shelby wrote: »

The postcode tender has been awarded, the postcode design has been finalised, there is nothing to promote.
Read the Dept of Communications press release. Calm down.

So Capita has a signed contract? (not according to the Minister)

So the funding for An Post to upgrade their technology to read a capita code is identified and An Post are ready to implement it?

And the Government have just tendered for another postcode adviser to ensure code is "fit for purpose" WHY? because they are convinced that the proposed code will work!

All a waste of public money when Ireland is on it's knees without a pot to piss in when proven systems where available for feck all!
Will it work with all sat nav's?

Delphic

Froststop wrote: »

Will it work with all sat nav's?

No reason why not. Some of them accept postcodes already.

recedite

Leonard Shelby wrote: »

See Ben101 comment about compatibility issues with An Post D.O.'s which the chosen postcode doesn't have. It also can't generate unique postcodes for every address.

The Irish postal system is deregulated as per the EU guidelines so these codes don't have to revolve around An Post's requirements. And anyway they already have their own sort codes in use.
I got a Christmas card last week, delivered late, and An Post had stamped on the envelope that the address was wrong. They wanted to see the address of the nearest town that has one of their sorting offices written in it, as opposed to the actual address where I live. That attitude just annoys people.

Delphic

recedite wrote: »

The Irish postal system is deregulated as per the EU guidelines so these codes don't have to revolve around An Post's requirements. And anyway they already have their own sort codes in use.
I got a Christmas card last week, delivered late, and An Post had stamped on the envelope that the address was wrong. They wanted to see the address of the nearest town that has one of their sorting offices written in it, as opposed to the actual address where I live. That attitude just annoys people.

And in future, when your mail has your postcode on it, you won't have that problem anymore. It'll just go straight to you.

Froststop

Delphic wrote: »

No reason why not. Some of them accept postcodes already.

I don't know about that, I know they can use coordinates but they will surely need updating or reprogramming for new codes. Which I'm sure manufacturers will not pay for.

Delphic

Froststop wrote: »

I don't know about that, I know they can use coordinates but they will surely need updating or reprogramming for new codes. Which I'm sure manufacturers will not pay for.

They will. They already do.

Froststop

Delphic wrote: »

They will. They already do.

Which ones? Have TomTom gotten rid of the codes they were using?

Delphic

Froststop wrote: »

Which ones? Have TomTom gotten rid of the codes they were using?

They all use postcodes.

Can I ask you a question now?

Froststop

Delphic wrote: »

They all use postcodes.

Can I ask you a question now?

So if I buy any new sat nav in the morning or in the future, it will have a coding system to take me to any dwelling or building I want to find. It will have a simple way for me to get a code or for the owner of the dwelling/building to get the code for me to use to find them.

Delphic

Froststop wrote: »

So if I buy any new sat nav in the morning or in the future, it will have a coding system to take me to any dwelling or building I want to find. It will have a simple way for me to get a code or for the owner of the dwelling/building to get the code for me to use to find them.

No idea.

You forgot to answer me. I said can I ask you a question now?

Froststop

Delphic wrote: »

You forgot to answer me. I said can I ask you a question now?

Go ahead

Delphic

Froststop wrote: »

Go ahead

Thank you.

You're into heating and plumbing. Is this something in which you're expert?

Froststop

Delphic wrote: »

Thank you.

You're into heating and plumbing. Is this something in which you're expert?

Are you asking if I'm an expert in plumbing or in postcodes?

Delphic

Froststop wrote: »

Are you asking if I'm an expert in plumbing or in postcodes?

I'm asking if you're expert in plumbing and heating.

Froststop

Delphic wrote: »

I'm asking if you're expert in plumbing and heating.

25 years, domestic & commercial but always learning like all professions