National Postcodes to be introduced

Delphic

Froststop wrote: »

25 years, domestic & commercial but always learning like all professions

Good stuff. Always an area that interested me. Cheers.

Carawaystick

This loc8 crowd, mapping system is down, can't figure out a rural address in Westmeath, not the tow land or even the nearest village

Same with a tow land with only one house in it outside Arklow.
We're supposed to bank on this?

Froststop

Carawaystick wrote: »

This loc8 crowd, mapping system is down, can't figure out a rural address in Westmeath, not the tow land or even the nearest village

Same with a tow land with only one house in it outside Arklow.
We're supposed to bank on this?

I don't think any post code will find a rural address. It's up to the owner to pan the map to find the required address from the nearest town. I would assume all systems would be similar due to potential villages and town-lands with same names in different parts of the country. If you can find your home on a map you can get a code which you provide to who ever you want to use to call to the address. You don't want every tom dick and harry being able to find your code.

Leonard Shelby

Froststop wrote: »

I don't think any post code will find a rural address. It's up to the owner to pan the map to find the required address from the nearest town. I would assume all systems would be similar due to potential villages and town-lands with same names in different parts of the country. If you can find your home on a map you can get a code which you provide to who ever you want to use to call to the address. You don't want every tom dick and harry being able to find your code.

Nope, new system will assign the postcode without the owners intervention. Every tom dick and harry will be able to find your code......just like normal addresses.

Leonard Shelby

Froststop wrote: »

So if I buy any new sat nav in the morning or in the future, it will have a coding system to take me to any dwelling or building I want to find. It will have a simple way for me to get a code or for the owner of the dwelling/building to get the code for me to use to find them.

YES! Isn't it brilliant! Don't you feel warm and fuzzy inside! EVERY SatNav will have postcodes when they arrive.

Leonard Shelby

Froststop wrote: »

So Capita has a signed contract? (not according to the Minister)

So the funding for An Post to upgrade their technology to read a capita code is identified and An Post are ready to implement it?

And the Government have just tendered for another postcode adviser to ensure code is "fit for purpose" WHY? because they are convinced that the proposed code will work!

All a waste of public money when Ireland is on it's knees without a pot to piss in when proven systems where available for feck all!
Will it work with all sat nav's?

What part of the postcode tender has been awarded don't you understand? I doubt if Pat Rabbitte is going to organise the signing of the contract in your house just to appease you, but it's a formality. When it's signed they'll announce it and you'll have to move on. The new tender is to assist the Government. Calm down, postcodes are arriving next year!

Leonard Shelby

Froststop wrote: »

Are you asking if I'm an expert in plumbing or in postcodes?

Don't worry, nobody will ever ask you if you're an expert in Postcodes!

Froststop

Leonard Shelby wrote: »

Don't worry, nobody will ever ask you if you're and expert in Postcodes!

I'm not an expert but use Navigation devices everyday for my work and for pastimes and I know what works and what does not work. What I have now works very well and never failed or left me down, there is nothing else on the market that does at present.
And I won't ask your company Capita what ye know about postcodes, there's greater expertise is in bluffing people and collecting money than bluffing politicians!

I can't see all sat nav manufactures going to the trouble to update their systems to suit post codes for a small market like Ireland unless there will be an income/return generated by charging the public for using the service in the future. Again we'll be hit with hidden charges after it's introduction not to mention wasting tax payers money.

Leonard Shelby

Froststop wrote: »

I'm not an expert but use Navigation devices everyday for my work and for pastimes and I know what works and what does not work. What I have now works very well and never failed or left me down, there is nothing else on the market that does at present.
And I won't ask your company Capita what ye know about postcodes, there's greater expertise is in bluffing people and collecting money than bluffing politicians!

I can't see all sat nav manufactures going to the trouble to update their systems to suit post codes for a small market like Ireland unless there will be an income/return generated by charging the public for using the service in the future. Again we'll be hit with hidden charges after it's introduction not to mention wasting tax payers money.

Nonsense. Garmin will support postcodes the day they are released, otherwise people will just buy competing products. They aren't going to limit themselves to Loc8 just because seven people in Cork use it...

wreckless

Leonard Shelby wrote: »

just because seven people in Cork use it...

think you need to learn to count m8. thousands use loc8 codes.

Froststop

Leonard Shelby wrote: »

Nonsense. Garmin will support postcodes the day they are released, otherwise people will just buy competing products. They aren't going to limit themselves to Loc8 just because seven people in Cork use it...

Your arrogance is obvious to people! I'm surprised it's not obvious to the Mod that your here to damage an competing product or system and promote your own.

You are not on here trying to smooth things over because things are going well - there must be big problems in the camp considering the Gov have asked a third party to check if it's fit for purpose! I can only assume promises made to get the contract can't be kept and possibly there is no sat nav manufacture willing to commit to the postcode contract.
Manufacturers will not pay for something that adds big cost to their products and then has to be kept up to date at a cost for the size of the market.
At the end of the day I'm talking about what exists, you are talking aspirations - same as the BS talked by Gov about postcodes since 2003!
People won't accept code system if there are associated charges to use it, we have enough more important expenses to worry about.

Leonard Shelby

Froststop wrote: »

Your arrogance is obvious to people! I'm surprised it's not obvious to the Mod that your here to damage an competing product or system and promote your own.

You are not on here trying to smooth things over because things are going well - there must be big problems in the camp considering the Gov have asked a third party to check if it's fit for purpose! I can only assume promises made to get the contract can't be kept and possibly there is no sat nav manufacture willing to commit to the postcode contract.
Manufacturers will not pay for something that adds big cost to their products and then has to be kept up to date at a cost for the size of the market.
At the end of the day I'm talking about what exists, you are talking aspirations - same as the BS talked by Gov about postcodes since 2003!
People won't accept code system if there are associated charges to use it, we have enough more important expenses to worry about.

You're right, I'm not on here trying to smooth things over. I'm here responding to people who have difficulty accepting reality.
The postcode tender has been awarded, that is the difference this time. You will get your postcode in 2015.

Smock

I use loc8 codes

Leonard Shelby

Froststop wrote: »

Your arrogance is obvious to people! I'm surprised it's not obvious to the Mod that your here to damage an competing product or system and promote your own.

1

Froststop wrote: »

You are not on here trying to smooth things over because things are going well - there must be big problems in the camp considering the Gov have asked a third party to check if it's fit for purpose!

2

Froststop wrote: »

I can only assume promises made to get the contract can't be kept

3

Froststop wrote: »

and possibly there is no sat nav manufacture willing to commit to the postcode contract.

and that makes 4.
And I asked you so nicely to limit yourself to one conspiracy theory per post...

Mylow

I use Loc8 codes.

My other half runs a shop which offers delivery, she gives discount to anyone who provides a Loc8 code, saves wasted time finding rural addresses.

There is also a plan by local estate to provide Loc8 codes for all 950 addresses. i know around 10% of it has been mapped to confirm house numbers.

While we are talking about addresses, you can buy an illuminated house number, make it new year resolution. Just try finding house numbers in an unknown estate and see how time consuming it can be.

Froststop

Leonard Shelby wrote: »

You're right, I'm not on here trying to smooth things over. I'm here responding to people who have difficulty accepting reality.
The postcode tender has been awarded, that is the difference this time. You will get your postcode in 2015.

I can't wait but won't hold my breath!
If your so sure, you'll surely be able to inform us the estimated cost to the end user? It must have been worked out for the contract proposal.

Sabelibar

I use loc8 codes!

Leonard Shelby

Froststop wrote: »

I can't wait but won't hold my breath!
If your so sure, you'll surely be able to inform us the estimated cost to the end user? It must have been worked out for the contract proposal.

Point 8 of the press release states
Postcodes are free for general public to acquire and easy to use.

Froststop

Leonard Shelby wrote: »

1

2

3

and that makes 4.
And I asked you so nicely to limit yourself to one conspiracy theory per post...

It must be a sore point for you, can't you keep up?
You still side step replying or providing answers to prove the theories wrong!
They are all suggestions which should have answers, are you afraid to answer or enter into discussion in case you leave something slip, considering a product has been sold the the Irish nation which dose not exist or has not been proven!

cnocbui

Leonard Shelby wrote: »

Nonsense. Garmin will support postcodes the day they are released, otherwise people will just buy competing products. They aren't going to limit themselves to Loc8 just because seven people in Cork use it...

Have you any idea how long it took Garmin to even provide the M7?

Delphic

Froststop wrote: »

.....and possibly there is no sat nav manufacture willing to commit to the postcode contract.

There are manufacturers who will use the postcode. All it needs is for one major manufacturer to have adopted the system - the others will follow or decide not to bother because their market share is too small or is already declining.

Besides, with the advent of these navigation apps on other platforms such as Android and iPhone, the PND market is likely to shrink further overall anyway. And further change is on the way.

Froststop

Delphic wrote: »

There are manufacturers who will use the postcode. All it needs is for one major manufacturer to have adopted the system - the others will follow or decide not to bother because their market share is too small or is already declining.

Besides, with the advent of these navigation apps on other platforms such as Android and iPhone, the PND market is likely to shrink further overall anyway. And further change is on the way.

Thanks Delphic, That's one conspiracy theory answered regarding not having a manufacture yet. I would have thought it would have been the first problem to solve before the contract was awarded or even tendered.

AmberAmber

i use the loc8 post code for my address . it works out great . no problems when i give it to family and friends to find my new house .
i must check their website and see the list of business that use it too, was nice a few months ago so many have a post code . i am sure its a super benefit for business .

Leonard Shelby

AmberAmber wrote: »

i use the loc8 post code for my address . it works out great . no problems when i give it to family and friends to find my new house .
i must check their website and see the list of business that use it too, was nice a few months ago so many have a post code . i am sure its a super benefit for business .

Next year ALL businesses will display their Postcode, just like in the UK, because it is in their interest to do so. Loc8 code isn't the postcode, that decision has been made.

Curly Judge

Leonard Shelby wrote: »

Next year ALL businesses will display their Postcode, just like in the UK, because it is in their interest to do so. Loc8 code isn't the postcode, that decision has been made.

Why was Loc8 excluded from tendering?
In what way is the current choice superior to Loc8?
Is it fair [or even legal] for a member of the advisory panel to be allowed become a member of the winning consortium?

Leonard Shelby

Curly Judge wrote: »

Why was Loc8 excluded from tendering?
In what way is the current choice superior to Loc8?
Is it fair [or even legal] for a member of the advisory panel to be allowed become a member of the winning consortium?

Who knows if Loc8 tendered or didn't, we only know they didn't win. The chosen postcode is superior for the following reasons:

1. Unique for every address
2. Seven characters rather than 8
3. Aligned with Postal Districts
4. Has a database that holds coordinates, so if these are corrected you don't need to be issued with a new postcode.
5. Is easier to licence

Need more?

Sam Russell

Leonard Shelby wrote: »

I'm not missing your point, you don't understand the problem. Currently local people knowing who lives in what house is the solution, with the local postman knowing everyone. You don't understand rural addressing if you think people will simply agree to number 10, Yellow Street being added to their address. And how long and by what method are you going to teach all the locals these new road names? Nonsense. Are you designing a solution for the Amish?

A solution where a delivery company or Emergency services can type your postcode into a satnav and find your house IS a solution.

So for a rural resident his address becomes:

Someone,
Townland,
Barony,
County
AB3 4JK8

so someone looking for that house has to get a satnav to find it.

The first job is to get local authorities to identify and name every local road in the country, and then assign a number to each house in the road. Whe that job is done, we can then start getting those addresses encoded into a post code system.

Doing it the other way is just potty. Urban addresses are not a problem as they already have a number, streetname.

Leonard Shelby

Sam Russell wrote: »

So for a rural resident his address becomes:

Someone,
Townland,
Barony,
County
AB3 4JK8

so someone looking for that house has to get a satnav to find it.

The first job is to get local authorities to identify and name every local road in the country, and then assign a number to each house in the road. Whe that job is done, we can then start getting those addresses encoded into a post code system.

Doing it the other way is just potty. Urban addresses are not a problem as they already have a number, streetname.

Or they could use google maps on their smartphone.

You obviously don't live in rural Ireland if you think you can impose an address on people and have them use it. Consider the An Daingean/Dingle fiasco and multiply it by a million. The postcode is the solution, because it is unique. Why would you want to create more work when it's not needed?

Sam Russell

Leonard Shelby wrote: »

Who knows if Loc8 tendered or didn't, we only know they didn't win. The chosen postcode is superior for the following reasons:

1. Unique for every address

We do not have unique addresses currently, so how can an address be assigned a unique post code. All that will happen is each of the non-unique buildings/postboxes will be assigned a unique code for that generic address.

2. Seven characters rather than 8

No check digit?

3. Aligned with Postal Districts

Is that decided?

4. Has a database that holds coordinates, so if these are corrected you don't need to be issued with a new postcode.

For use by a satnav, this would be required. However, with a small code, what happens when the code rolls over? For example when AB2 goes the AB3 because all the AB2 codes are used up? Next door houses with completely different post codes?

5. Is easier to licence

Now here is the real point of the system. How does the state make money from it? Like toll roads, change the road signs and speed limits to divert traffic onto the toll road to satisy the private partner.

Will we have the same trick with post codes? No post if it has no post code? Selling groups of post codes to junk mailers?

Leonard Shelby

Sam Russell wrote: »

We do not have unique addresses currently, so how can an address be assigned a unique post code. All that will happen is each of the non-unique buildings/postboxes will be assigned a unique code for that generic address.

I think you answered your own question there!

Sam Russell wrote: »

No check digit?

It's a database lookup, so doesn't need a check digit.

Sam Russell wrote: »

Is that decided?

Yep, its in the press release.

Sam Russell wrote: »

For use by a satnav, this would be required. However, with a small code, what happens when the code rolls over? For example when AB2 goes the AB3 because all the AB2 codes are used up? Next door houses with completely different post codes?

There isn't a check digit, so there are plenty of codes for every Postal District, you don't have to worry about that.

Sam Russell wrote: »

Now here is the real point of the system. How does the state make money from it? Like toll roads, change the road signs and speed limits to divert traffic onto the toll road to satisy the private partner.

Will we have the same trick with post codes? No post if it has no post code? Selling groups of post codes to junk mailers?

If they don't charge companies that benefit from it (e.g. SatNav) then we all as taxpayers pay for it. It's free for the public to use. An Post have an obligation to deliver all post, but postcodes will help them to sort post more efficiently so it might arrive sooner. As it stands An Post do a very good job of next day delivery compared to the situation in the UK.