National Postcodes to be introduced

NFD100

NFD100 wrote: »

I think the Loc8 codes are very clever. I think the system fits all the criteria. Anyone know when an announcement will be made abiut when they will be introduced?

If successful, they will become the de facto post code system, unless outlawed!

NFD100

NFD100 wrote: »

I think the Loc8 codes are very clever. I think the system fits all the criteria. Anyone know when an announcement will be made abiut when they will be introduced?

I think that, as they have been "launched", they have effectively been introduced

Deleted User wrote: »

If successful, they will become the de facto post code system, unless outlawed!

Totally agree - it's somewhat "in our hands" - if we all start to use them, it will become a self fulfilling prophecy

Empire o de Sun

ok private companies are crating post codes for ireland,

but if they are to be used, surly something as important as post codes in the control of a private company is not good.

I know the state isn't the most productive institution in the word but this is important information.

dubhthach

NFD100 wrote: »

County codes can't be used as Conradh na Gaeilge, the department of Gaeltacht and all the other Irish language organisations will object. It is also probably not allowed under the official languages Act.

I think the Loc8 codes are very clever. I think the system fits all the criteria. Anyone know when an announcement will be made abiut when they will be introduced?

Loc8 has gone live. You can register your address to get your code at:
www.loc8code.com
http://www.siliconrepublic.com/comms/item/16941-all-ireland-digital-address/

Nuttzz

Empire o de Sun wrote: »

ok private companies are crating post codes for ireland,

but if they are to be used, surly something as important as post codes in the control of a private company is not good.

I know the state isn't the most productive institution in the word but this is important information.

Why, the company that builds a housing estate names the roads in it and that doesnt cause problems.

The state has shown it cant implement this on time and a private company has got there ahead of them, if they can do it efficiently and the process is transparent and free for the public to use I dont see the problem with it

fresca

Nuttzz wrote: »

The state has shown it cant implement this on time and a private company has got there ahead of them, if they can do it efficiently and the process is transparent and free for the public to use I dont see the problem with it

and the simple solution is for the government to buy the private company rather than implementing their own system - it's got to be cheaper!

Bards

fresca wrote: »

and the simple solution is for the government to buy the private company rather than implementing their own system - it's got to be cheaper!

They already have money in it through

1- Enterprise Ireland
2. OSI

When did this Govt or any Govt make the right decision

conolan

The problem with any system introduced by a private company is that they don't have a database of addresses. Therefore they can't automatically work out the code for every house and send everyone their code.
Only An Post can do that because they are the only people with a suitable database to start the matching process.

As I understand it, Loc8 requires the householder to find their code by using an address followed by tweaking on a map. Therefore only a small percentage will have codes. Postcodes require an almost universal acceptance to be useful.

Secondly, the codes are difficult to remember. This is the one for my local pub Y7M-43-5QK. We need An Post to do it and to send us all a postcard with our code printed on it.

Dubluc

conolan wrote: »

The problem with any system introduced by a private company is that they don't have a database of addresses. Therefore they can't automatically work out the code for every house and send everyone their code.
Only An Post can do that because they are the only people with a suitable database to start the matching process.

If so it wouldn't be a huge thing for the government to cooperate with this company. Perhaps this company has tendered for the government contract and this is a tester to see if it succeeds. I don't know how government tendering works but surely if you have a proven system it helps.

conolan wrote: »

As I understand it, Loc8 requires the householder to find their code by using an address followed by tweaking on a map. Therefore only a small percentage will have codes. Postcodes require an almost universal acceptance to be useful.

Universal accptance only comes about by the system working. I heard I think earlier in this thread of some country where the postcodes weren't originally accepted by the people cos they weren't easily understood and had to be tweaked. Can't remember what country though.

conolan wrote: »

Secondly, the codes are difficult to remember. This is the one for my local pub Y7M-43-5QK. We need An Post to do it and to send us all a postcard with our code printed on it.

You'd remember the one's you need to after using them a few times. Especially if part of the code bears some correlation to your street or townland. After all most of us remember our phone numbers and those of some of our friends and maybe a car reg or two. Hell I even remember my leaving cert number (don't ask me why (it's boards someone will so I don't know), can never remember it in those nightmares though!).

yuloni

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ACProctor

I'm getting bit confused here now. I read the PON stuff and thought it sounded really good. I even registered my address.

Then along comes loc8 which is apparently the new name for PON but which has an entirely different format (one for which I apparently am not allowed to publish a simple regex string).

I know loc8 is Gamin-funded and not a Government system. I have only just become aware of GoCode, though, (http://www.gocode.ie/) which seems to be associqated with TomTom.

It feels like Ireland is going from being the only Western country with no postal or zip code system to one with more than all the others put together.

I guess no one knows whether the Government will adopt one of these commercial systems or develop their own...?

Richiecats

Forget Go Codes and GPS, You don't need to worry what the number is, It's simple the the Post work what the code is and send you a letter telling you, when you deal with a business of friends you add your postcode and business should be able to buy a list from Post over time postcodes become part of your address.

Simple

Dubluc

Condi wrote: »

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If this could be done with perhaps the system recently launched wouldn't it save millions in a Govt contract!

And no you don't have too much time. If more people were willing this is just the sort of volunteer spirit that we hear in the media periodically is apparently absent from society.

Good idea!

clohamon

ACProctor wrote: »

I guess no one knows whether the Government will adopt one of these commercial systems or develop their own...?

The department believes in competition (of necessity) so what better way to decide the winner than have the different systems compete in the open market.

The competition shouldn't last too long and obviously it will be winner-takes-all.

yuloni

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clohamon

Condi wrote: »

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The government will own nothing and control nothing.
The winning company will be able to license out the sorting algorithm to An Post and charge a modest (say 10%) levy on the price of all parcel deliveries within the state using its system.

It may be able to gather information on the frequency and source of deliveries to given address - and sell the information.

As soon as people start getting lazy about including the old postal address and start just using the code, An post will be helpless.

ACProctor

Richiecats wrote: »

Forget Go Codes and GPS, You don't need to worry what the number is, It's simple the the Post work what the code is and send you a letter telling you, when you deal with a business of friends you add your postcode and business should be able to buy a list from Post over time postcodes become part of your address.

Simple

Unless you work for a software company that needs to know ahead of time what the system will be, and what the codes look like

KevR

I know mine off-by-heart already. I'm so great!! :cool:

yuloni

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GoCoder

ACProctor wrote: »

I have only just become aware of GoCode, though, (http://www.gocode.ie/) which seems to be associqated with TomTom.

It feels like Ireland is going from being the only Western country with no postal or zip code system to one with more than all the others put together.

I guess no one knows whether the Government will adopt one of these commercial systems or develop their own...?

Hi. As my user name implies I work for GO Code. So interest declared up front.

Certainly it seems confusing that suddenly the country is awash in location codes/postcodes. The reality is that some of the code designs have been around for a few years. We started a beta trial on the web in late 2006, and named the GO Code about 18 months ago.

If people would like an explanation of how it works, purpose, etc. I'm happy to do so. You can view the system at www.gocode.ie and it's also working on mobile phones and with satnav software.

Feedback welcome, if people want to give it or to discuss.

Thank you.

ACProctor

GoCoder wrote: »

Hi. As my user name implies I work for GO Code. So interest declared up front.

Certainly it seems confusing that suddenly the country is awash in location codes/postcodes. The reality is that some of the code designs have been around for a few years. We started a beta trial on the web in late 2006, and named the GO Code about 18 months ago.

If people would like an explanation of how it works, purpose, etc. I'm happy to do so. You can view the system at www.gocode.ie and it's also working on mobile phones and with satnav software.

Feedback welcome, if people want to give it or to discuss.

Thank you.

Thanks for the explanation. I confess to 2 interests here - the obvious one being the use of a real post code system for accurate addressing, but also because I work for a software organisation that parners with mapping organisations to help locate banking resources in a person's vicinity.

I just had a very heated conversation with the loc8 people because I wanted a regex string that described the pattern their codes make. I was greated with veiled threats of legal action and told it was a breach of copyright which is rather silly for a single piece of text like this. I went ahead and produced one but when I published it on these boards, a complaint was made and the post was pulled.

I'm just preying that this was a "one off" and that other organisations are more understanding :-)

conolan

ACProctor wrote: »

I just had a very heated conversation with the loc8 people because I wanted a regex string that described the pattern their codes make.

By regex string do you mean working out the conversion of a LatLong to their code? Presumably easily reverse engineered unless they have encrypted it.

GoCoder

ACProctor wrote: »

Thanks for the explanation. I confess to 2 interests here - the obvious one being the use of a real post code system for accurate addressing, but also because I work for a software organisation that parners with mapping organisations to help locate banking resources in a person's vicinity.

I just had a very heated conversation with the loc8 people because I wanted a regex string that described the pattern their codes make. I was greated with veiled threats of legal action and told it was a breach of copyright which is rather silly for a single piece of text like this. I went ahead and produced one but when I published it on these boards, a complaint was made and the post was pulled.

I'm just preying that this was a "one off" and that other organisations are more understanding :-)

Hi ACProctor - what are you looking to achieve with requesting this information? Is it a way to convert geo-coordinates to a location code? Or do you want to know the layout/coverage of the area levels within the location code design e.g. Loc8, GO Code, etc.

In a GO code, there are 7 levels of precision - starting with the first primary area, and then with each successive character providing further levels of accuracy within that primary grid area. I'm not sure if we can assist you in the problem you want to solve, but if you want to PM me, feel free.

yuloni

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ACProctor

conolan wrote: »

By regex string do you mean working out the conversion of a LatLong to their code? Presumably easily reverse engineered unless they have encrypted it.

No, not at all. That's the silly aspect of this. I merely needed a "regular expression" pattern that described whether each character position was a alphabetic, alphanumeric, numeric, or punctuation so that a code would be parsed in a command string.

I was interested in the way the codes were encoded or check-summed at all

ACProctor

GoCoder wrote: »

Hi ACProctor - what are you looking to achieve with requesting this information? Is it a way to convert geo-coordinates to a location code? Or do you want to know the layout/coverage of the area levels within the location code design e.g. Loc8, GO Code, etc.

In a GO code, there are 7 levels of precision - starting with the first primary area, and then with each successive character providing further levels of accuracy within that primary grid area. I'm not sure if we can assist you in the problem you want to solve, but if you want to PM me, feel free.

No, just a "regular expression" that described the pattern the characters make in the code so that a program can recognise them in the context of other data, e.g. how many letters, numbers, punctuation characters, etc.

It only took me a few minutes to poduce one myself but the loc8 didn't want me or themselves to publish it. Very odd!

GoCoder

ACProctor wrote: »

No, just a "regular expression" that described the pattern the characters make in the code so that a program can recognise them in the context of other data, e.g. how many letters, numbers, punctuation characters, etc.

It only took me a few minutes to poduce one myself but the loc8 didn't want me or themselves to publish it. Very odd!

We'll try and not be as equally odd if you ever come asking.

Though it won't be me who'll be able to give you the answer anyway, so I'm safe on that one.

ACProctor

GoCoder wrote: »

We'll try and not be as equally odd if you ever come asking.

Though it won't be me who'll be able to give you the answer anyway, so I'm safe on that one.

It's early days yet since our software is not sold in Ireland. I just want to be prepared ;-)

As far as I understand, GoCodes are variable length (i.e. longer => more precision). I can't see anything on your web site that says whether the codes are composed of all letters or alphanumerics. Is there anything you can point me to?

GoCoder

ACProctor wrote: »

It's early days yet since our software is not sold in Ireland. I just want to be prepared ;-)

As far as I understand, GoCodes are variable length (i.e. longer => more precision). I can't see anything on your web site that says whether the codes are composed of all letters or alphanumerics. Is there anything you can point me to?

Yes to variable length. The GO Code currently resolves to 7 characters though sometimes 5, or often 6, characters is sufficient for identifying particular things.

Based on the structure we currently have, it uses both numbers and letters. There's some combinations we've already prevented.

baalthor

ACProctor wrote: »

It only took me a few minutes to poduce one myself but the loc8 didn't want me or themselves to publish it. Very odd!

Not that odd if you have a look at many of the posts here by loc8code rep garydubh ...