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National Postcodes to be introduced

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    #1832
    Delphic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 164 ✭✭Delphic


    Froststop wrote: »
    No Idea, I don't work for either company, you would need to ask Garmin/Loc8 that question.
    I just use Loc8 in NI when I go up there and have no problems with it.

    Just put a Royal Mail postcode into it and it works. The point being that Garmin use dual coding systems for the same territory. As do TomTom.


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    #1833
    Froststop
    Registered Users Posts: 445 ✭✭Froststop


    Delphic wrote: »
    Just put a Royal Mail postcode into it and it works. The point being that Garmin use dual coding systems for the same territory. As do TomTom.

    How do I get/generate the code for the required location? I could need 100+ per day, but not for address/buildings.


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    #1834
    Delphic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 164 ✭✭Delphic


    Froststop wrote: »
    Very limited redundancy in the A65 B2CD code - it will run out of codes quickly and none left for new buildings - it is a very restrictive code!

    "Limited redundancy"?

    That's a very good description - oxymoronic even. :)


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    #1835
    Red Nissan
    Registered Users Posts: 3,055 ✭✭✭Red Nissan


    Jack180570 wrote: »
    Flipperdipper, I would be very interested to know what other people are using Loc8 Codes and what they find good about them.

    For three years now already. It is simple and easy to set up but I do find a certain mystique when trying to get some people to make one for me so I can deliver to them.

    I did buy a Gamin because it had Loc8Code.

    Only thing that make all a little too late is Google knowing house names, now that's almost witchcraft.


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    #1836
    Delphic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 164 ✭✭Delphic


    Froststop wrote: »
    How do I get/generate the code for the required location? I could need 100+ per day.

    You're missing the point completely.

    One of Loc8 reps posted earlier that Garmin had adopted it as the postcode for Southern Ireland. To which you responded:
    Froststop wrote: »
    All of Ireland north & south Jack, we proved that earlier, post #1789

    When you say "we proved that" I presume you mean Loc8. Except Garmin haven't adopted Loc8 as the postcode for Northern Ireland since they already use the Royal Mail postcode as well. So your system is being carried on a Garmin satnav alongside an official postcode system. The point being the same could happen in ROI, as one of the mods pointed out earlier.


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    #1837
    Froststop
    Registered Users Posts: 445 ✭✭Froststop


    Delphic wrote: »
    You're missing the point completely.

    One of Loc8 reps posted earlier that Garmin had adopted it as the postcode for Southern Ireland. To which you responded:



    When you say "we proved that" I presume you mean Loc8. Except Garmin haven't adopted Loc8 as the postcode for Northern Ireland since they already use the Royal Mail postcode as well. So your system is being carried on a Garmin satnav alongside an official postcode system. The point being the same could happen in ROI, as one of the mods pointed out earlier.

    When you aked for a Loc8 code for the touch line in Ravenhill rugby field, I provided you with two, both lines at each end of the pitch generated on Loc8 code site. If I put those codes into my Garmin sat nav, it will take me there. That's all that matters to me!

    I also asked if the Royal Mail post code could provide a code for a point along a road and how do I generate same code to enter into a sat nav? (not for a building or dwelling address, and without using complicated coordinates) Which still has not been answered.


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    #1838
    Froststop
    Registered Users Posts: 445 ✭✭Froststop


    Delphic wrote: »
    Just put a Royal Mail postcode into it and it works. The point being that Garmin use dual coding systems for the same territory. As do TomTom.

    Again, where do I get/generate a Royal Mail code? Your missing the point/side stepping the question


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    #1839
    mick993
    Registered Users Posts: 15 ✭mick993


    Ahh what are we arguing for? sure this is just another example in a long list of normal government procurement waste.

    I had high hopes when the troika came in that a lot of such wastage would finish. Alas, they've left now having met their required targets mostly by allowing fleecing of the weak & the ordinary person on the street.


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    #1840
    Delphic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 164 ✭✭Delphic


    Froststop wrote: »
    Again, where do I get/generate a Royal Mail code? Your missing the point/side stepping the question

    You don't know how to look up a postcode? I simply don't believe that.


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    #1841
    Froststop
    Registered Users Posts: 445 ✭✭Froststop


    Delphic wrote: »
    You don't know how to look up a postcode? I simply don't believe that.

    I do, but they don't offer me what I need!
    Go onto the Royal mail site and you have to enter building number, name, street and town. fine for a town. Try finding a cross road or anything out in the sticks with that. It picks the codes from a data base and dose not allow for code generation for any point on the map. If that's what the new post code will be like all I can say is CRAP, waste of time and money even trying to developing it.

    The question has still not been answered.


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    #1842
    Delphic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 164 ✭✭Delphic


    Froststop wrote: »
    I do, but they don't offer me what I need!
    Go onto the Royal mail site and you have to enter building number, name, street and town. fine for a town. Try finding a cross road or anything out in the sticks with that. It picks the codes from a data base and dose not allow for code generation for any point on the map. If that's what the new post code will be like all I can say is CRAP, waste of time and money even trying to developing it.

    The question has still not been answered.

    You've answered your own question.
    We know that location codes can be used to identify any point on the island of Ireland. Loc8 and Go Code can both do that. Equally, you already know that Royal Mail postcodes don't do that.

    The point I was making was that Garmin accepts both code systems on its devices. When the national postcode system launches here, there's no reason why it wouldn't also use it, even if it was carrying Loc8 as well. Ditto for TomTom, Navigon, Google, Navteq, etc.

    As others have pointed out, it's possible for both types of code systems to co-exist in Ireland. One is an official national postcode system that applies to every home/office in the state, the other are privately-owned location codes that can be used on a voluntary basis by people, if they wish, for other purposes - Loc8 and GoCode can compete in this space - if they want to.


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    #1843
    Froststop
    Registered Users Posts: 445 ✭✭Froststop


    Delphic wrote: »
    You've answered your own question.
    We know that location codes can be used to identify any point on the island of Ireland. Loc8 and Go Code can both do that. Equally, you already know that Royal Mail postcodes don't do that.

    The point I was making was that Garmin accepts both code systems on its devices. When the national postcode system launches here, there's no reason why it wouldn't also use it, even if it was carrying Loc8 as well. Ditto for TomTom, Navigon, Google, Navteq, etc.

    As others have pointed out, it's possible for both types of code systems to co-exist in Ireland. One is an official national postcode system that applies to every home/office in the state, the other are privately-owned location codes that can be used on a voluntary basis by people, if they wish, for other purposes - Loc8 and GoCode can compete in this space - if they want to.

    I understand the fact that two or more can operate together. I just don't see why a national one is needed when both Loc8 or GoCode could be used and save the nation a fortune for developing it and keeping it update.


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    #1844
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,118 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Froststop wrote: »
    I understand the fact that two or more can operate together. I just don't see why a national one is needed when both Loc8 or GoCode could be used and save the nation a fortune for developing it and keeping it update.
    A location code is one thing and is a very good way of finding places if that's all you want to do. A postcode on the other hand can be used for regional classification in a way that a simple location code can't, for example as all the houses on an estate will share the first few characters of the postcode it is easy to "pigeonhole" households on that estate for the selling of insurance and the like as well as for political profiling when sending out election literature.

    There's a lot more to having a post code than just finding places and delivering post.


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    #1845
    Froststop
    Registered Users Posts: 445 ✭✭Froststop


    Deleted User wrote: »
    A location code is one thing and is a very good way of finding places if that's all you want to do. A postcode on the other hand can be used for regional classification in a way that a simple location code can't, for example as all the houses on an estate will share the first few characters of the postcode it is easy to "pigeonhole" households on that estate for the selling of insurance and the like as well as for political profiling when sending out election literature.

    There's a lot more to having a post code than just finding places and delivering post.

    I think we all know that the main reason the Gov ignored the existing two systems in favour to develop a new national coding system has nothing to do with you, me or anyone finding places or address's. It is mainly so they can use it to build a data base of every slave in the country to force their tax's on us. Most likely they will tax/licence us for having and using their post code also. The emergency and delivery points are only propaganda to get us to accept it.


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    #1846
    Delphic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 164 ✭✭Delphic


    Deleted User wrote: »
    A location code is one thing and is a very good way of finding places if that's all you want to do. A postcode on the other hand can be used for regional classification in a way that a simple location code can't, for example as all the houses on an estate will share the first few characters of the postcode it is easy to "pigeonhole" households on that estate for the selling of insurance and the like as well as for political profiling when sending out election literature.

    There's a lot more to having a post code than just finding places and delivering post.

    Good summary. There's a lot of other uses where common ID groupings like this can be of benefit - for example in social, health, and education planning. And the fact that it picks up all homes - including multi-unit developments - makes it more accurate than the more "blunt" location code which stops at the door or footpath of a building.


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    #1847
    Carawaystick
    Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    Froststop wrote: »
    I don't think any post code will find a rural address. It's up to the owner to pan the map to find the required address from the nearest town. I would assume all systems would be similar due to potential villages and town-lands with same names in different parts of the country. If you can find your home on a map you can get a code which you provide to who ever you want to use to call to the address. You don't want every tom dick and harry being able to find your code.

    I think any organisation attempting to provide a location code service should have at least town lands on their maps. Various state bodies provide them on their online maps, such as for geology or flood mapping.

    If roads with more, or less than 1 name had road numbers and an end displayed at junctions, you'ld have a much more manageable addressing system.
    You still have to manually count the number of houses from the junction, but you do not need to rely on foreign technology from the us military, Microsoft Apple or google


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    #1848
    Froststop
    Registered Users Posts: 445 ✭✭Froststop


    Carawaystick wrote: »
    I think any organisation attempting to provide a location code service should have at least town lands on their maps. Various state bodies provide them on their online maps, such as for geology or flood mapping.

    Good point: Loc8 has town lands on south of the border mapping but you have to zoom down 500 mts before they appear.


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    #1849
    Froststop
    Registered Users Posts: 445 ✭✭Froststop


    Delphic wrote: »
    Good summary. There's a lot of other uses where common ID groupings like this can be of benefit - for example in social, health, and education planning. And the fact that it picks up all homes - including multi-unit developments - makes it more accurate than the more "blunt" location code which stops at the door or footpath of a building.

    Could an apartment/department number just be added to location code to solve these issues?


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    #1850
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,118 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Froststop wrote: »
    Could an apartment/department number just be added to location code to solve these issues?
    Not really, because "postcodes" are clustered around central points and satellite points that are based on physical structures not an absolute location.

    It is this clustering that allows for social, political & economic management of the country as usually wealthy people are in one cluster and lower income groups in others and commercial, retail & industrial premises are also clustered.

    A postcode of AH7 AG(xx) will give you an entire housing estate in the town, perfect for planning your business budget as you no longer need to know street names or even how many houses for whatever purpose you have in mind.

    Look up "postcode lottery" in the UK to see it in action.


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    #1851
    Froststop
    Registered Users Posts: 445 ✭✭Froststop


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Not really, because "postcodes" are clustered around central points and satellite points that are based on physical structures not an absolute location.

    It is this clustering that allows for social, political & economic management of the country as usually wealthy people are in one cluster and lower income groups in others and commercial, retail & industrial premises are also clustered.

    A postcode of AH7 AG(xx) will give you an entire housing estate in the town, perfect for planning your business budget as you no longer need to know street names or even how many houses for whatever purpose you have in mind.

    Look up "postcode lottery" in the UK to see it in action.

    Delphic has already suggested it can be done, wouldn't it be an easier solution


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    #1852
    Scartbeg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 168 ✭✭Scartbeg


    Carawaystick wrote: »
    but you do not need to rely on foreign technology from the us military, Microsoft Apple or google


    Lucky then that the US funded GPS no longer has a monopoly on the satellite navigation market.

    Most consumer receivers now are capable of using Galileo (European Union funded) and GLONASS (Russian). The Chinese Beidou system will also be available globally in the next 5 years or so.

    We should really be talking GNSS rather than GPS these days.


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    #1853
    Curly Judge
    Registered Users Posts: 2,708 ✭✭✭Curly Judge


    Deleted User wrote: »
    A location code is one thing and is a very good way of finding places if that's all you want to do. A postcode on the other hand can be used for regional classification in a way that a simple location code can't, for example as all the houses on an estate will share the first few characters of the postcode it is easy to "pigeonhole" households on that estate for the selling of insurance and the like as well as for political profiling when sending out election literature.

    There's a lot more to having a post code than just finding places and delivering post.

    The best description of a nightmarish 1984 scenario I have ever heard!


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    #1854
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,118 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Curly Judge wrote: »
    The best description of a nightmarish 1984 scenario I have ever heard!
    and is in almost worldwide use today.


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    #1855
    ManAboutCouch
    Registered Users Posts: 225 ✭✭ManAboutCouch


    According to a tweet from AutoAddress (one of the winning consortium members) the Postcode contract was signed on December 20th:
    AutoAddress wrote:
    Happy Christmas to all. Hope 2014 will be as interesting for you as it will be for us, postcode contract signed today #postcode #ireland


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    #1856
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    If contracts were signed the minister would want to instruct his department to issue some press statements.


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    #1857
    Carawaystick
    Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    Froststop wrote: »
    Good point: Loc8 has town lands on south of the border mapping but you have to zoom down 500 mts before they appear.

    Searching should then use those town lands, rather than bring you to the nearest large town


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    #1858
    Delphic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 164 ✭✭Delphic


    Carawaystick wrote: »
    Searching should then use those town lands, rather than bring you to the nearest large town

    Were you searching for a particular address?


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    #1859
    Carawaystick
    Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    Scartbeg wrote: »
    Lucky then that the US funded GPS no longer has a monopoly on the satellite navigation market.

    Most consumer receivers now are capable of using Galileo (European Union funded) and GLONASS (Russian). The Chinese Beidou system will also be available globally in the next 5 years or so.

    We should really be talking GNSS rather than GPS these days.

    Yeah we can use Putins system, much better relying on a military system run by ex soviets than the us

    How much of the time is gallileo usable in Ireland? With only 4 satellites up...


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    #1860
    Froststop
    Registered Users Posts: 445 ✭✭Froststop


    Carawaystick wrote: »
    Searching should then use those town lands, rather than bring you to the nearest large town

    Good idea! we'll have an ideal system by time we're finished here.
    However correct me if I'm wrong but something tells me you know more about this than letting on, even though you have been trying to get a code for 2.5 yrs! lol


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    #1861
    Delphic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 164 ✭✭Delphic


    ManAboutCouch wrote: »
    According to a tweet from one of the winning consortium members, the Postcode contract was signed on December 20th:

    Well that sorts that out. Next up, how will the code design work?


This discussion has been closed.
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