National Postcodes to be introduced

recedite

Deleted User wrote: »

all the houses on an estate will share the first few characters of the postcode it is easy to "pigeonhole" households on that estate for the selling of insurance and the like

That is nonsense because most estates have a mixture of different house types; there could be 2-beds, 3-beds, 4-beds and apartments all on the same estate. If you wanted to dumb down a loc8 code to just an area code, you would delete the last digits of each of the coordinates within the code, to get a grid area, and the grids are adjacent to each other. You have as much chance pigeonholing people by the geographical grid they live in, compared to trying to define people by pigeonholing them into "estates".

That's if you even considered it desirable for the State to assist the junk mail industry.

recedite

recedite wrote: »

That is nonsense because most estates have a mixture of different house types; there could be 2-beds, 3-beds, 4-beds and apartments all on the same estate. If you wanted to dumb down a loc8 code to just an area code, you would delete the last digits of each of the coordinates within the code, to get a grid area, and the grids are adjacent to each other. You have as much chance pigeonholing people by the geographical grid they live in, compared to trying to define people by pigeonholing them into "estates".

That's if you even considered it desirable for the State to assist the junk mail industry.

They maybe different style of house, but in general, they are all of a similar social standing/income group.

It's rare to have an estate where wealthy people live next door to people on social security, well not by choice anyway, it may be different on ghost estates.

In the UK where there are mixed estates, the "rich bit" often has a different postcode prefix from the poor bit.

I personally know of a couple of cases where the residents of the rich part demanded a different postcode because their insurance premiums were being based on the whole estate, the poor bit having a high crime rate.

a65b2cd

Delphic wrote: »

Well that sorts that out. Next up, how will the code design work?

As the code is also designed to assist in manual sorting and delivering post, it should contain more intelligence than just the post district area. Part of the B2CD component could be used to distinguish smaller areas within the postal district, e.g. one town from another or Cabra from Phibsborough etc., so that there is more commonality in postcodes for letter-boxes in the same locality.

Once allocated a postcode should not change so postcodes should not follow any legislative changes in town boundaries or changes in postal district areas etc.

Froststop

ManAboutCouch wrote: »

According to a tweet from AutoAddress (one of the winning consortium members) the Postcode contract was signed on December 20th:

Here is an extract from the RTF document published on 23rd December by Dept Of Communications (available to anyone on etenders.gov.ie)

It clearly says that the tender award is still subject to contrcat:

On 8 October 2013, Minister for Communications Energy and Natural Resources obtained Government approval for the launch of a new national postcode system that will provide a unique seven character code to every letterbox in the State in 2015. The Government also approved, subject to contract, the appointment of Capita Business Support Services Ireland Limited as the company which will develop, rollout and operate the postcode system.

This was published on 23rd Dec and Autoaddress tweet was 20th - so it appears nobody really knows what's going on. Anyway what has autoaddress got to do with it. The only announcement that the Minister has made is that Capiata will head up the consortium - no one in any official position has stated that autoaddress or anyone else is involved.
This is beginning to look like the tail wagging the dog companies making public statements to force themselves into the consortium.

Is the spending of public money now managed on boards.ie and twitter?

Delphic

Froststop wrote: »

Here is an extract from the RTF document published on 23rd December by Dept Of Communications (available to anyone on etenders.gov.ie)

It clearly says that the tender award is still subject to contrcat:

On 8 October 2013, Minister for Communications Energy and Natural Resources obtained Government approval for the launch of a new national postcode system that will provide a unique seven character code to every letterbox in the State in 2015. The Government also approved, subject to contract, the appointment of Capita Business Support Services Ireland Limited as the company which will develop, rollout and operate the postcode system.

This was published on 23rd Dec and Autoaddress tweet was 20th - so it appears nobody really knows what's going on. Anyway what has autoaddress got to do with it. The only announcement that the Minister has made is that Capiata will head up the consortium - no one in any official position has stated that autoaddress or anyone else is involved.
This is beginning to look like the tail wagging the dog companies making public statements to force themselves into the consortium.

Is the spending of public money now managed on boards.ie and twitter?

I think you're reading that wrong, Frostop. If you edit out the first approval bit, like this:

"On 8 October 2013, Minister for Communications Energy and Natural Resources ….. approved, subject to contract, the appointment of Capita Business Support Services Ireland Limited as the company which will develop, rollout and operate the postcode system."

This is entirely accurate. Since then, the contract was signed - evidently on 20th Dec. You also have to allow that the tender document would have been written before the publication on 23rd.

The next stage is the postcode design presumably. As someone said earlier, they have the tender for oversight of the postcode design underway that companies such as Loc8 can presumably tender for - on their own or with another company, if they wish.

marmurr1916

Froststop wrote: »

Here is an extract from the RTF document published on 23rd December by Dept Of Communications (available to anyone on etenders.gov.ie)

It clearly says that the tender award is still subject to contrcat:

On 8 October 2013, Minister for Communications Energy and Natural Resources obtained Government approval for the launch of a new national postcode system that will provide a unique seven character code to every letterbox in the State in 2015. The Government also approved, subject to contract, the appointment of Capita Business Support Services Ireland Limited as the company which will develop, rollout and operate the postcode system.

This was published on 23rd Dec and Autoaddress tweet was 20th - so it appears nobody really knows what's going on. Anyway what has autoaddress got to do with it. The only announcement that the Minister has made is that Capiata will head up the consortium - no one in any official position has stated that autoaddress or anyone else is involved.
This is beginning to look like the tail wagging the dog companies making public statements to force themselves into the consortium.

Is the spending of public money now managed on boards.ie and twitter?

Irish Postcode Tender Win

Posted by Pat Donnelly on Mon, 06/01/2014 - 08:00 tags:Postcodes

We're delighted to confirm that we are members of the winning Consortium to design, develop and rollout a unique postcode for every address in Ireland. The Consortium comprises Capita Ireland, Autoaddress and BearingPoint.

Autoaddress are providing our specialist address intelligence expertise to the project, and are responsible for designing the postcode format (that's the easy bit!), building the address database, assigning the postcodes to every address, postcoding millions of public sector database addresses, etc. In short, we're extremely busy! Our postcode team began work last November.

http://www.autoaddress.ie/blog/pat-donnelly/2014/01/06/irish-postcode-tender-win#.Uss7FvRdX7Q

Delphic

recedite wrote: »

If you wanted to dumb down a loc8 code to just an area code, you would delete the last digits of each of the coordinates within the code, to get a grid area, and the grids are adjacent to each other. You have as much chance pigeonholing people by the geographical grid they live in, compared to trying to define people by pigeonholing them into "estates".

That's if you even considered it desirable for the State to assist the junk mail industry.

If you look at the designs more closely, neither the loc8 code nor, it looks like, the Govt code will be of use to the junk mail industry. The random/blunt aspects of their designs don't really suit their purposes. Loc8 doesn't apply to every address, although linked to geocoords. The Govt one applies to every address but isn't directly linked to geocoords. They need order linked to geographical hierarchy - neither of them has it really.

Del2005

Delphic wrote: »

If you look at the designs more closely, neither the loc8 code nor, it looks like, the Govt code will be of use to the junk mail industry. The random/blunt aspects of their designs don't really suit their purposes. Loc8 doesn't apply to every address, although linked to geocoords. The Govt one applies to every address but isn't directly linked to geocoords. They need order linked to geographical hierarchy - neither of them has it really.

So by waiting this long to introduce they have actually got it right. Unique code for every letter box, so emergency services and deliveries can find it, that junk mailers can't use.

Del2005

Del2005 wrote: »

So by waiting this long to introduce they have actually got it right. Unique code for every letter box, so emergency services and deliveries can find it, that junk mailers can't use.

I think that we'll have to wait for the format to be released before we'll really know if that's true or not. I was under the impression that it was a hierarchical code which went one step further than the UK version.
i.e down to the individual property rather than the individual postal round.

Curly Judge

Delphic wrote: »

If you look at the designs more closely, neither the loc8 code nor, it looks like, the Govt code will be of use to the junk mail industry. The random/blunt aspects of their designs don't really suit their purposes. Loc8 doesn't apply to every address, although linked to geocoords. The Govt one applies to every address but isn't directly linked to geocoords. They need order linked to geographical hierarchy - neither of them has it really.

Why do you promote the lie that Loc8 does not or cannot apply to every address?
Personally, I know why you do this, but would like to see you try to explain it.

Froststop

Delphic wrote: »

Well that sorts that out. Next up, how will the code design work?

As you claim to know what is happening, then you will be able to tell us all the companies that are involved in the consortium?

Delphic

Froststop wrote: »

As you claim to know what is happening, then you will be able to tell us all the companies that are involved in the consortium?

I haven't claimed to know what is happening. That's already been answered on here a number of times. The Department press release stated Capita. Bearing Point and Auto Address are also involved according to their statements.

emmetfahy

1. The new codes are unecessary.
2. It's a shame to ditch the townland names. This is not official policy, but will be the practical outcome. They provide us with a great link to our past.
3. If the codes are to be introduced, they should have been all numbers. Which are far easier to remember than a mixture of letters and numbers.

Delphic

Curly Judge wrote: »

Why …..Loc8 does not or cannot apply to every address?

Is there a separate unique 8-character loc8 code for every unit in a multi-unit building?

Froststop

Delphic wrote: »

Is there a separate unique 8-character loc8 code for every unit in a multi-unit building?

You would think it's something that could be sorted out, just like what will need to be done for the postcode. Using an existing system as a platform to improve is a lot easier & less expensive than starting from scratch IMO.

I think what will happen is give them a basic system and charge another 25 million to update or improve it at a later date when the Gov are blamed for making an ass of this contract too, not to mention the cost of keeping the data base up to date. Captia will claim it was designed as per tender spec.

Delphic

Froststop wrote: »

You would think it's something that could be sorted out.... using an existing system as a platform to improve is a lot easier & less expensive than starting from scratch IMO.

Well, let's see what Curly Judge's answer is going to be first - maybe loc8 do this already.

Curly Judge

Delphic wrote: »

Is there a separate unique 8-character loc8 code for every unit in a multi-unit building?

Of course not!
Why should there be?
If your famous code identifies an apartment on the third floor, far left, of an apartment block what purpose will that serve, apart from pinpointing it for some government dept?
Is the postman going to jetpack up to the balcony of that apartment and walk in through the french doors to deliver the mail?
He'll go to the main door, identify the apartment from the number,nameplate and the letterbox and proceed from there.
If there is a registered letter to be signed for he is hardly going to run around the corner and shout up: "Mr Bloggs, registered parcel from Ann Summers"
Now is he?

Del2005

emmetfahy wrote: »

1. The new codes are unecessary.
2. It's a shame to ditch the townland names. This is not official policy, but will be the practical outcome. They provide us with a great link to our past.
3. If the codes are to be introduced, they should have been all numbers. Which are far easier to remember than a mixture of letters and numbers.

Why are they unnecessary? There are loads of reasons posted why we need them, I haven't seen many saying why we don't.

Townlands won't disappear. If you ask someone where their from they'll still say Ballyinthemiddleofnowhere not DY54.

Not enough combinations available with numbers only. Since mobiles became nearly universal the only number I know is mine but I can still remember the postcodes of friends in the UK.

Leonard Shelby

Curly Judge wrote: »

Of course not!
Why should there be?
If your famous code identifies an apartment on the third floor, far left, of an apartment block what purpose will that serve, apart from pinpointing it for some government dept?
Is the postman going to jetpack up to the balcony of that apartment and walk in through the french doors to deliver the mail?
He'll go to the main door, identify the apartment from the number,nameplate and the letterbox and proceed from there.
If there is a registered letter to be signed for he is hardly going to run around the corner and shout up: "Mr Bloggs, registered parcel from Ann Summers"
Now is he?

Of course. The Government shouldn't take the opportunity to design a code that will allow tax and other charges to be collected efficiently, it should continue to spend more money to do so, ensuring we all have to pay more tax.

Froststop

Leonard Shelby wrote: »

Of course. The Government shouldn't take the opportunity to design a code that will allow tax and other charges to be collected efficiently, it should continue to spend more money to do so, ensuring we all have to pay more tax.

I hope everyone has invested in lube, because they'll shaft us when/if this is sorted! They'll tax the postcode also, wait and see!! We all know this is the reason why a new system had to be developed, we may as well call it "The National Tax Collection Data Base". I think we all need to start writing to the Data Commissioner requesting our data is not shared.

Delphic

Delphic wrote: »

Is there a separate unique 8-character loc8 code for every unit in a multi-unit building?

From what I can see, LOC8 is a two dimensional location code, it would need an altitude character to work in blocks of flats.

Delphic

Curly Judge wrote: »

Why do you promote the lie that Loc8 does not or cannot apply to every address?

Delphic wrote: »

Is there a separate unique 8-character loc8 code for every unit in a multi-unit building?

Curly Judge wrote: »

Of course not!

You've answered your own question. There isn't a unique loc8 code applied to every address.

yuloni

This post has been deleted.

Delphic

Condi wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Did Jim Morrison say that?

Leonard Shelby

Condi wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

The chosen postcode design allows for other uses. That's the only advantage of not having introduced one until now, it allows maximum functionality/uses of postcodes to be catered for in the design.

Condi

Condi wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

yes the UK postcode has several codes for some large buildings so each code will do a couple of floors and maybe if it's a large commercial enterprise, different codes for different departments.

Curly Judge

Delphic wrote: »

You've answered your own question. There isn't a unique loc8 code applied to every address.

Loc 8 works and is already used by thousands of people while yours is still waiting to get out of the stalls.
One of the many reasons it is successful is because it works simply but effectively.
Your system is a recipe for disaster because it will have to be constantly updated and altered to suit changing circumstances.
For instance, what will happen to the codes when a developer decides to build on a new wing to the apartment block?

Delphic

Deleted User wrote: »

yes the UK postcode has several codes for some large buildings so each code will do a couple of floors and maybe if it's a large commercial enterprise, different codes for different departments.

Didn't know that. So in Ireland, they'll also have different codes for different apartments.

Delphic

Curly Judge wrote: »

…..system is a recipe for disaster because it will have to be constantly updated and altered to suit changing circumstances.
For instance, what will happen to the codes when a developer decides to build on a new wing to the apartment block?

Put postcodes on the new apartments….

Jack180570

Leonard Shelby wrote: »

The chosen postcode design allows for other uses. That's the only advantage of not having introduced one until now, it allows maximum functionality/uses of postcodes to be catered for in the design.

Leonard,
I thought you had passed away when I hadn't seen any reply from you to the specific questions I asked you.
Now that I see you are alive and well I look forward to reading your replies.