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Public sector pay: the wrong debate
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The ESRI are not God, their stats take into account every single little benefit afforded to the public sector, there was never an issue when the private guys sat in thelr nice air conditioned offices working away but now that things have gotten worse what better way to deal with it than to hit those lazy public breast feeding shovel servants.
You're right, I don't want it to affect me, Do you? be realistic.
The ESRI are an independent organisation who for many years have been carrying out well respected research on the Irish Economy.
Can we also nail the falacy that the ESRI report reflects todays situation and that a couple of years ago it was very different. The ESRI report is based on salaries in 2006.
No, I don't want it to affect me; however if my employer reaches a point where he can no longer afford to pay me, I will take a pay cut . . and I wont expect others to subsidise my company or my personal situation.0 -
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even bigger SIGH :pac::pac:
I said you were "slightly misrepresenting the report"...as the two concepts are not the same thing....nothing more sinister than that
Agreed, the analysis may not be as simplistic as I represented but the fundamental message in the analysis is exactly as I had represented.0 -
Am I complaining about my mortgage you muppet?
Thats abuse.Wiley1 wrote:If i am so well paid how is it that myself and my public sector worker girlfriend both have 2nd jobs to keep afloat and we have no credit cards or loans, only mortgage of 300k with 2 shi**y enough 01 and 04 cars.
There you have it. 300k mortgage is a huge mortgage. You won't say the real reason but we know the real reason behind the opposition to paycuts.0 -
hallelujajordan wrote: »Sorry for misquoting you .. I thought from your original post you had accepted that the salary issue needs to be addressed across the board.
I'm baffled at the number of public sector workers who accept the idea of pay cuts but only in the levels above them . . the ESRI report clearly states that the salary differential is biggest in the lower income sector.
No bother. I think most public sector workers do accept pay cuts at some stage when it is all justified. But of course if the pain isn't felt from the top down, we'll all be unhappy (Banks>High earners>Joe Soap). In some areas of the public sector, management ranks have been swelled with high earners that bring up the average salary statistic. Actual front line public service workers are not on the pigs back at all. But they'll do their bit when the time comes.0 -
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hallelujajordan wrote: »The ESRI are an independent organisation who for many years have been carrying out well respected research on the Irish Economy.
Can we also nail the falacy that the ESRI report reflects todays situation and that a couple of years ago it was very different. The ESRI report is based on salaries in 2006.
No, I don't want it to affect me; however if my employer reaches a point where he can no longer afford to pay me, I will take a pay cut . . and I wont expect others to subsidise my company or my personal situation.
Will you lose your internet access?0 -
I've been listening to this debate for about a year now. And to be honest it is no better and we (collectively) are no better off than we are now. There's are lots of reasons for this. Mostly, because (just taking this site for an example) there are pure extremists, on both sides, but particularly those representing non public service backgrounds.
I'd really like to address some of the pure lunacy that is stated:
Mortgages:
I see it said time and time again (mostly by the same handful of users) that it's tough shít on people eho paid over the odds for houses etc... during the boom and now because of pay cuts, redundancies etc... aren't able to make their payments and have now lost their house (or are close to it).
This is not a handful of people, 20 or 30 in isolation who "lost" the run of themselves, this is thousands of people probably even 10s of thousands (public and private) across the country. Yes, they bought when the going was good etc... but that was sadly and wrongly the culture of Ireland. A culture that, for years was beat into the average citizen. A culture that was created or at least helped a long by the Government, Construction Interest groups, banks/financial institutions and the legal profession.
I cannot believe the attitude of "fúck them, they paid too much, they'll just have to face consequences" If this is the attitude of "I am alright to hell with Jack" that has come out of the Celtic Tiger, I wish it never happened.
"Fecking" people out onto the street is not going to help anyone. NAMA should be about helping the managment of people in these positions - not bailing them out but keeping their heads above water to fight (and pay their loans) another day.
Public Sector Pay:
I don't care what anyone says, what way you want to word it etc.. etc... but all public sector workers have taken a pay cut. On average, compared to last year Pay is down 7.5% as a result of the pension levy alone. No matter what the 7.5% is for, disposible income is down for this group of people. They are the same people trying to live life as those in the private sector. I don't (or at least very rarely) see the public sector cheering or demanding pay cuts for private sector workers. Remember, at the end of the day, private or public, a worker is a worker, a citizen is a citizen, neither is a monster. Why do "ordinary" workers in the private sector take such glee out of the suffering of fellow workers in this country.
The Government and the media have done an amazing job at creating a "civil war" between the public and private sector and it has and continues to deflect from absolutely everything else going on in the country.
Frontline has had two episodes now I think (?) - the first discussing NAMA and now the second dealing with Public Sector Pay. Surely, both of these issues could ahve waited until after Lisbon. Why was there not a frontline program on Lisbon this week. Talk to people who will be affected positively and/or negatively by Lisbon.
There is apparently more outrage about public sector pay/pensions than pure corruption and wastage of public monies.
The Government should be making statements broadly outlining all matters under consideration for savings in public expenditure and revenue generation. The bulk of the focus is public sector pay and isolating a group of people on throws fuel on the the "civil war". Why isn't the Government coming out with statements about considering comprehensive measures to co-exist with a public sector pay cut. Such as increasing the higher tax rate slightly, or the higher income levy rate, guarantees and proper plans for raising revenue by going after people with multiple properties etc.. etc... Why are they not, seriously looking into or making it known that they are really looking into reducing the inefficiencies in the public sector.
I think public sector workers would be more willing to take a pay cut if they knew their Government, and their fellow citizens wern't just specifically targetting them. Having shows like last night's frontline is only adding to this.
I heard (true or not?) that the Government is considering reducing public sector working hours to 4 days per week to save on average 20%. What a joke! Reduce effectiveness and access by 20% - absolute madness! Don;t forget, the public service provides 10s of thousands of different services to people. Some little, some large, but just because YOU don't need a service (or may never need a particular service) doesn't mean others don't either.
I am a public sector worker. I will take a % pay cut. I do not want to spend time standing in the cold looking at the front of my office holding a placard. I want to work.
But I want to stop being abused. I want the Government to look at and address the bigger picture. I want reductions in public service numbers in some areas and increases in other. I want all of these "economy saving" measures undertaken in parallell were possible and not have one issued continually stoked. As citizens of this state we have all lost the run of ourselves and our attitude and culture has taken a shocking down turn if you ask me. We should also be focusing as much energy in dealing with the corruption and wastage overseen by the people who are purported to reprsent us.
Sorry for the length.0 -
No bother. I think most public sector workers do accept pay cuts at some stage when it is all justified. But of course if the pain isn't felt from the top down, we'll all be unhappy (Banks>High earners>Joe Soap). In some areas of the public sector, management ranks have been swelled with high earners that bring up the average salary statistic. Actual front line public service workers are not on the pigs back at all. But they'll do their bit when the time comes.
Exactly my point too. Work from the top down, I'm totally agreeable to that. although it's not ideal.0 -
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hallelujajordan wrote: »No . . would you like that ?
That way you could be free to whinge and moan about us fat cats in our air conditioned offices unchecked !
Read the post from I am Jebus. Great stuff and honest to the core....
I'd love if you and your hardliner attitude dissappeared, we could start the recovery then....It's the likes of you that are keeping this war on words going when every post from a public sector worker on here is accepting of change but you won't allow that in to you world....
What do you really want, spit it out !0 -
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I_am_Jebus wrote: »I've been listening to this debate for about a year now. And to be honest it is no better and we (collectively) are no better off than we are now. There's are lots of reasons for this. Mostly, because (just taking this site for an example) there are pure extremists, on both sides, but particularly those representing non public service backgrounds.I'd really like to address some of the pure lunacy that is stated:Mortgages:
I see it said time and time again (mostly by the same handful of users) that it's tough shít on people eho paid over the odds for houses etc... during the boom and now because of pay cuts, redundancies etc... aren't able to make their payments and have now lost their house (or are close to it.This is not a handful of people, 20 or 30 in isolation who "lost" the run of themselves, this is thousands of people probably even 10s of thousands (public and private) across the country. Yes, they bought when the going was good etc... but that was sadly and wrongly the culture of Ireland. A culture that, for years was beat into the average citizen. A culture that was created or at least helped a long by the Government, Construction Interest groups, banks/financial institutions and the legal profession.I cannot believe the attitude of "fúck them, they paid too much, they'll just have to face consequences" If this is the attitude of "I am alright to hell with Jack" that has come out of the Celtic Tiger, I wish it never happened."Fecking" people out onto the street is not going to help anyone. NAMA should be about helping the managment of people in these positions - not bailing them out but keeping their heads above water to fight (and pay their loans) another day.Public Sector Pay:
I don't care what anyone says, what way you want to word it etc.. etc... but all public sector workers have taken a pay cut. On average, compared to last year Pay is down 7.5% as a result of the pension levy alone. No matter what the 7.5% is for, disposible income is down for this group of people. They are the same people trying to live life as those in the private sector. I don't (or at least very rarely) see the public sector cheering or demanding pay cuts for private sector workers. Remember, at the end of the day, private or public, a worker is a worker, a citizen is a citizen, neither is a monster. Why do "ordinary" workers in the private sector take such glee out of the suffering of fellow workers in this country.The Government and the media have done an amazing job at creating a "civil war" between the public and private sector and it has and continues to deflect from absolutely everything else going on in the country.Frontline has had two episodes now I think (?) - the first discussing NAMA and now the second dealing with Public Sector Pay. Surely, both of these issues could ahve waited until after Lisbon. Why was there not a frontline program on Lisbon this week. Talk to people who will be affected positively and/or negatively by Lisbon.There is apparently more outrage about public sector pay/pensions than pure corruption and wastage of public monies.The Government should be making statements broadly outlining all matters under consideration for savings in public expenditure and revenue generation. The bulk of the focus is public sector pay and isolating a group of people on throws fuel on the the "civil war". Why isn't the Government coming out with statements about considering comprehensive measures to co-exist with a public sector pay cut. Such as increasing the higher tax rate slightly, or the higher income levy rate, guarantees and proper plans for raising revenue by going after people with multiple properties etc.. etc... Why are they not, seriously looking into or making it known that they are really looking into reducing the inefficiencies in the public sector.i think public sector workers would be more willing to take a pay cut if they knew their Government, and their fellow citizens wern't just specifically targetting them. Having shows like last night's frontline is only adding to this.I heard (true or not?) that the Government is considering reducing public sector working hours to 4 days per week to save on average 20%. What a joke! Reduce effectiveness and access by 20% - absolute madness! Don;t forget, the public service provides 10s of thousands of different services to people. Some little, some large, but just because YOU don;t need a service (or may never need a particular service) doesn't mean others don't either.I am a public sector worker. I will take a % pay cut. I do not want to spend time standing in the cold looking at the front of my office holding a placard. I want to work.But I want to stop being abused. I want the Government to look at and address the bigger picture. I want reductions in public service numbers in some areas and increases in other. I want all of these "economy saving" measures udnertaken in parallell were possible and not have one issued continually stoked. As citizens of this state we have all lost the run of ourselves and our attitude and culture has taken a shocking town turn if you ask me. We should also be focusing as much energy in dealing with the corruption and wastage overseen by the people who are purported to reprsent us.Sorry for the length.
Brilliant, well said...0 -
I_am_Jebus wrote: »I've been listening to this debate for about a year now. And to be honest it is no better and we (collectively) are no better off than we are now. There's are lots of reasons for this. Mostly, because (just taking this site for an example) there are pure extremists, on both sides, but particularly those representing non public service backgrounds.I'd really like to address some of the pure lunacy that is stated:Mortgages:
I see it said time and time again (mostly by the same handful of users) that it's tough shít on people eho paid over the odds for houses etc... during the boom and now because of pay cuts, redundancies etc... aren't able to make their payments and have now lost their house (or are close to it.This is not a handful of people, 20 or 30 in isolation who "lost" the run of themselves, this is thousands of people probably even 10s of thousands (public and private) across the country. Yes, they bought when the going was good etc... but that was sadly and wrongly the culture of Ireland. A culture that, for years was beat into the average citizen. A culture that was created or at least helped a long by the Government, Construction Interest groups, banks/financial institutions and the legal profession.I cannot believe the attitude of "fúck them, they paid too much, they'll just have to face consequences" If this is the attitude of "I am alright to hell with Jack" that has come out of the Celtic Tiger, I wish it never happened."Fecking" people out onto the street is not going to help anyone. NAMA should be about helping the managment of people in these positions - not bailing them out but keeping their heads above water to fight (and pay their loans) another day.Public Sector Pay:
I don't care what anyone says, what way you want to word it etc.. etc... but all public sector workers have taken a pay cut. On average, compared to last year Pay is down 7.5% as a result of the pension levy alone. No matter what the 7.5% is for, disposible income is down for this group of people. They are the same people trying to live life as those in the private sector. I don't (or at least very rarely) see the public sector cheering or demanding pay cuts for private sector workers. Remember, at the end of the day, private or public, a worker is a worker, a citizen is a citizen, neither is a monster. Why do "ordinary" workers in the private sector take such glee out of the suffering of fellow workers in this country.The Government and the media have done an amazing job at creating a "civil war" between the public and private sector and it has and continues to deflect from absolutely everything else going on in the country.Frontline has had two episodes now I think (?) - the first discussing NAMA and now the second dealing with Public Sector Pay. Surely, both of these issues could ahve waited until after Lisbon. Why was there not a frontline program on Lisbon this week. Talk to people who will be affected positively and/or negatively by Lisbon.There is apparently more outrage about public sector pay/pensions than pure corruption and wastage of public monies.The Government should be making statements broadly outlining all matters under consideration for savings in public expenditure and revenue generation. The bulk of the focus is public sector pay and isolating a group of people on throws fuel on the the "civil war". Why isn't the Government coming out with statements about considering comprehensive measures to co-exist with a public sector pay cut. Such as increasing the higher tax rate slightly, or the higher income levy rate, guarantees and proper plans for raising revenue by going after people with multiple properties etc.. etc... Why are they not, seriously looking into or making it known that they are really looking into reducing the inefficiencies in the public sector.i think public sector workers would be more willing to take a pay cut if they knew their Government, and their fellow citizens wern't just specifically targetting them. Having shows like last night's frontline is only adding to this.I heard (true or not?) that the Government is considering reducing public sector working hours to 4 days per week to save on average 20%. What a joke! Reduce effectiveness and access by 20% - absolute madness! Don;t forget, the public service provides 10s of thousands of different services to people. Some little, some large, but just because YOU don;t need a service (or may never need a particular service) doesn't mean others don't either.I am a public sector worker. I will take a % pay cut. I do not want to spend time standing in the cold looking at the front of my office holding a placard. I want to work.But I want to stop being abused. I want the Government to look at and address the bigger picture. I want reductions in public service numbers in some areas and increases in other. I want all of these "economy saving" measures udnertaken in parallell were possible and not have one issued continually stoked. As citizens of this state we have all lost the run of ourselves and our attitude and culture has taken a shocking town turn if you ask me. We should also be focusing as much energy in dealing with the corruption and wastage overseen by the people who are purported to reprsent us.Sorry for the length.
Excellent post and I agree with everything you say . . there are a huge number of issues to be tackled in Ireland. We are moving towards tackling some of them but there are cartels in operation in this country that will take time to break down.
In the meantime, while we address those issues there is a fundamental gap in the public finances that can only be resolved by reducing public sector wages. . .
And I reiterate, I take no glee or pleasure in this but i feel it is an absolute necessity based on the simple economics0 -
I_am_Jebus wrote: »i think public sector workers would be more willing to take a pay cut if they knew their Government, and their fellow citizens wern't just specifically targetting them. Having shows like last night's frontline is only adding to this.I am a public sector worker. I will take a % pay cut. I do not want to spend time standing in the cold looking at the front of my office holding a placard. I want to work.But I want to stop being abused. I want the Government to look at and address the bigger picture. I want reductions in public service numbers in some areas and increases in other. I want all of these "economy saving" measures udnertaken in parallell were possible and not have one issued continually stoked. As citizens of this state we have all lost the run of ourselves and our attitude and culture has taken a shocking town turn if you ask me. We should also be focusing as much energy in dealing with the corruption and wastage overseen by the people who are purported to reprsent us.
Very well put.0 -
Read the post from I am Jebus. Great stuff and honest to the core....
I'd love if you and your hardliner attitude dissappeared, we could start the recovery then....It's the likes of you that are keeping this war on words going when every post from a public sector worker on here is accepting of change but you won't allow that in to you world....
What do you really want, spit it out !
Jesus man . . I'm not hardline at all . . . and I don't know what you want me to spit out ?? My views have been clear from the beginning . .
I have stated right across this thread that I think there is real reform needed across the public sector but as I am jebus has pointed out this reform needs to happen in parallel with salary reductions in the public sector. . not instead of them . . the numbers are irrefutable . . there is a lot that needs to happen but if we dont reduce public sector expenditure the majority of which is in pay and pensions then the country will go bankrupt and we will all be F*cked.0 -
hallelujajordan wrote: »Excellent post and I agree with everything you say . . there are a huge number of issues to be tackled in Ireland. We are moving towards tackling some of them but there are cartels in operation in this country that will take time to break down.
In the meantime, while we address those issues there is a fundamental gap in the public finances that can only be resolved by reducing public sector wages. . .
And I reiterate, I take no glee or pleasure in this but i feel it is an absolute necessity based on the simple economics
I take your point in regards to a reduction of pay in the public sector and your personal note on not taking glee etc... on the matter.
Unfortunately, as you know and as you can see in this forum, that not everyone comes across with the same attitude.
In first post I think I outline (or at least hope I do) that I feel pay reductions are required. I believe the same is true of the private sector too though, eventually, in industries/areas that have yet to be affected by pay cuts. I think overall the cost of a working hour in this country and therefore the cost of living is too high across the board.
But I do strongly believe that to just wholesale sweep another attack on the public sector in one go is not the the right way to go about it, for the sake of the country. It might now be too late to introduce a real portfolio of measures (expenditure cuts / revenue increases) for December. I think it would be better to stage public sector pay reductions - i.e. certain % reductions now (January) and some more next year - rather than one big amount now. I think it would make it more pallatable (sp?) for the people affected and also give an opportunity for cost of living to come down/balance a bit before more money is taken.
MY biggest fear for everyone is when the ECB start to raise interest rates again. IT will happen, soon enough too and that's when the real harship will be faced. I hope (but doubt) the Government through NAMA or possibly while dealing with Lisbon (ship has probably sailed now) could come to a short term agreement with the national banks and the ECB regarding the timing and amount of future interest increases. I really feel people will be suffocated very quickly with so much happening at once.0 -
Folks I'm not great with the quote thing so I'm just going to say thank you to those who have commented on my post.
To HJordan - I accept what you said about passing the pain to the private sector and agree some of my suggestions may not work but what I was really trying to get across was that we're all in this together and that rather than getting bogged down in a battle of words and opinions we should be saying 'hey, how can we change/improve this together?' I believe on a people, community and greater society level we can claw our way out of this mess but we must do it together.
Maybe I'm an idealist more than a realist but I would love nothing more than to show the world that our 'little' country can! I don't want to be a scapegoat but I'm more than willing to stand in line with a strong community and pull my weight.
When I was a child my single mother sometimes didn't have enough to feed us and a neighbour was often in a simular position. Instead of my mother sitting us down to a dinner of nothing but copious amounts of spuds and our neighbour sitting her children down to sausages a la nothing they would get together and make a big dinner for all us kids. The point being that sometimes holding onto what you have for dear life is not always the way but sharing what you can even in the height of despair can uplift you and give you a sense of community and togetherness in hard times. I'll give up a little more of my pay, time, knowledge, whatever it takes I just want to know that EVERYONE will because if they don't don't pretty soon all some of us will have is spuds a la nothing!0 -
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hallelujajordan wrote: »Jesus man . . I'm not hardline at all . . . and I don't know what you want me to spit out ?? My views have been clear from the beginning . .
I have stated right across this thread that I think there is real reform needed across the public sector but as I am jebus has pointed out this reform needs to happen in parallel with salary reductions in the public sector. . not instead of them . . the numbers are irrefutable . . there is a lot that needs to happen but if we dont reduce public sector expenditure the majority of which is in pay and pensions then the country will go bankrupt and we will all be F*cked.
Well that is true and i didn't mean to sound arrogant earlier, I just want to see a fair approach to any cuts in public pay, I believe that there are other cuts (apart from Env) that could be addressed before hitting the core pay, Even if this doesn't happen until December what other cost saving measure will be put into place before then? Not very many i'm sad to say.
The last thing we need is to go bankrupt, all services, private and public will be affected and I hope we can laugh about this in years to come the way we do about the hard times in the 80's.
I read a story from Iceland about a guy who's turnover was 1m a year from his company and he was driving to a community centre in his new range rover to collect food using food stamps. Let's never get to that stage.
I would also like to see leadership from our government, even if i didn't vote to put them in power, they are in power and should be spearheading changes for the common good.0 -
you are moving the goalposts now!
there are public sector workers who realise the state we are in and need
1. to get finances under control, including the public sector pay bill
2. real management reform to let us confornt serious issues like under-performance (and indeed non-performance) etc
its these people who are conveniently ignored with all PS being tarred the same as those who come on here with ridiculous positions
That was lucid and rational. I agree with everything you said.
Now, how do you propose it is achieved with the dipstick union bosses 'representing' the Public Sector workers stand in the way of positive change!0 -
<Simple solution for you, Emmigrate and stop whinging, why didn't you apply for one of the thousands of public sector jobs that were advertised over the last 10 years in the national press.
I have no symapthy for you. :rolleyes:
See, I did emigrate! I doubt the public sector needed an electronic engineer, not many of us anyway, lol! I still pay taxes in Ireland unfortunately so I'll whinge away at the way my taxes are spectacularly wasted in my home country
Anyway, sense of humour failure. Look at the post above mine where I said that and see why I did it.
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Read the post from I am Jebus. Great stuff and honest to the core....
I'd love if you and your hardliner attitude dissappeared, we could start the recovery then....It's the likes of you that are keeping this war on words going when every post from a public sector worker on here is accepting of change but you won't allow that in to you world....
What do you really want, spit it out !
The only thing really annoying me about the PS workers is this crap about the 'pay cut'
IT IS NOT A PAY CUT!! ... (see, your making me yell now!)
Answer this question... If I start to contribute to my pension, is it a pay cut?0 -
Join Date:Posts: 17315
The only thing really annoying me about the PS workers is this crap about the 'pay cut'
IT IS NOT A PAY CUT!! ... (see, your making me yell now!)
Answer this question... If I start to contribute to my pension, is it a pay cut?
Answer this question: "How is it contributing to your pension when it goes nowhere near your pension?"
You pay more but get the same money, before this pension levy Public servants all paid an amount into their pension funds. Now they are paying more with no extra coming out of it.0 -
<
See, I did emigrate! I doubt the public sector needed an electronic engineer, not many of us anyway, lol! I still pay taxes in Ireland unfortunately so I'll whinge away at the way my taxes are spectacularly wasted in my home country
Anyway, sense of humour failure. Look at the post above mine where I said that and see why I did it.
Understood, If I could give you a job you'd probably do a great deal more than some....0 -
Folks I'm not great with the quote thing so I'm just going to say thank you to those who have commented on my post.
To HJordan - I accept what you said about passing the pain to the private sector and agree some of my suggestions may not work but what I was really trying to get across was that we're all in this together and that rather than getting bogged down in a battle of words and opinions we should be saying 'hey, how can we change/improve this together?' I believe on a people, community and greater society level we can claw our way out of this mess but we must do it together.
Maybe I'm an idealist more than a realist but I would love nothing more than to show the world that our 'little' country can! I don't want to be a scapegoat but I'm more than willing to stand in line with a strong community and pull my weight.
When I was a child my single mother sometimes didn't have enough to feed us and a neighbour was often in a simular position. Instead of my mother sitting us down to a dinner of nothing but copious amounts of spuds and our neighbour sitting her children down to sausages a la nothing they would get together and make a big dinner for all us kids. The point being that sometimes holding onto what you have for dear life is not always the way but sharing what you can even in the height of despair can uplift you and give you a sense of community and togetherness in hard times. I'll give up a little more of my pay, time, knowledge, whatever it takes I just want to know that EVERYONE will because if they don't don't pretty soon all some of us will have is spuds a la nothing!
And a single tear rolls down my cheek... and you made me hungry too...
Come on, that was necessary back then, when as a country we REALLY did have nothing.. but now what are people forced to share... Nintendo Wii games??
If the Public Sector were willing to admit that change is required, and that the whole country does NOT get value for their money from them.. we could move forward!
The real solution the PS wants to see is an anal-raping tax on the 'successful'.... without realising that it is the successful that create jobs and money too...
Wait till December, when Lenihan renages on his 'no income tax' promise... and there is NO money flowing in the economy... and he bottles it with the bullies in the unions too...0 -
Answer this question: "How is it contributing to your pension when it goes nowhere near your pension?"
You pay more but get the same money, before this pension levy Public servants all paid an amount into their pension funds. Now they are paying more with no extra coming out of it.
Exactly jonny,
Why are we paying superannuation from our wages as well as the pension levy. I thought that was contributing towards pensions. ??0 -
Answer this question: "How is it contributing to your pension when it goes nowhere near your pension?"
You pay more but get the same money, before this pension levy Public servants all paid an amount into their pension funds. Now they are paying more with no extra coming out of it.
Explain that waffle...
And then come back to my question and answer it this time..
If I contribute to my pension... is it a pay cut.. yes/no??0 -
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Exactly jonny,
Why are we paying superannuation from our wages as well as the pension levy. I thought that was contributing towards pensions. ??
Maybe a better idea would be to scrap the pension levy and just let PS workers have a defined contribution pension? So they can put in as little or as much as they like?0 -
Explain that waffle...
And then come back to my question and answer it this time..
If I contribute to my pension... is it a pay cut.. yes/no??
I'll help Jonnie answer that, we were already contributing to our pensions, now with the levy it directly affects your disposable income so in a word to answer your question YES, it is widely considered a pay cut. (because it shows as a deduction from your gross salary every payslip) black and white answer.
If 80,000 people marching in Dublin doesn't affect the decision i don't see how griping here will save PS wages either...0 -
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Join Date:Posts: 17315
Explain that waffle...
And then come back to my question and answer it this time..
If I contribute to my pension... is it a pay cut.. yes/no??
Ok then, simplify so you can understand.
I as a public servant at the start of this year already paid a % of my wage into my pension fund. (As does any Public servant in after 1995).
Now my pension is a set amount.
Then they add a "levy" and you are trying to say that it is a pension contribution.
My pension is still going to be the same amount when I retire regardless of this new levy so how is it contributing to my pension when the pension is still the same but I am now paying double what I was at the start of the year?
Now are you up to speed?0
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