Public sector pay: the wrong debate

Riskymove

I_am_Jebus wrote: »

there is a new scheme available that will pay people up to 12,000 a year to feck off for three years as a way of saving money

there has been very little take up

Kimbot

jimmmy wrote: »

:DI have met more than a few lazy overpaid ones as well....although to be fair there are some who do work hard, and I know one who is quite vocal in looking for cuts in the public service pay bill, to the dismay of his colleagues. Hats off to him. He is worth ten of those "in at 1030, lunch at 1130 done at 1630" type of people who spend half their lives on sickies, paid career breaks, etc etc. Why would anyone work hard when its the same thanks - and gold plated pension - ye get if you don't ?

Who on earth gets a paid career break??

Kimbot

Riskymove wrote: »

there is a new scheme available that will pay people up to 12,000 a year to feck off for three years as a way of saving money

there has been very little take up

When did that come in...


@ Jimmy, looks like Risky is answering so forget the above.

SparkyLarks

this is what makes the private sector go mad

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/0929/breaking52.htm

Riskymove

jonny24ie wrote: »

I would love to know how on earth an Public servant can get away with strolling in the door at 10.30 and have their lunch at 11.30!!
Its not possible unless they are diddling the clock and if they are then they should be reported!!

they could not do it on flexi-time unless completely unmonitored

however, they may not be on flexi-time

Riskymove

jonny24ie wrote: »

Who on earth gets a paid career break??

bank workers in Permanent TSB

Riskymove

jonny24ie wrote: »

When did that come in...


@ Jimmy, looks like Risky is answering so forget the above.

the emergency budget, along with an early retirement scheme and an extension of the term time scheme

Kimbot

SparkyLarks wrote: »

this is what makes the private sector go mad

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/0929/breaking52.htm

In all fairness I'm going mad looking at that and I ain't in the private sector!!

Everyone in this country expects more than what they are getting and its about time people learn that you have to work for what you get and not just think because you are in a union you are entitled to it!!

The HSE are the most overstaffed money consuming pit you can find yet they want more!!
Thats were cuts should be first brought in!

I_am_Jebus

chachabinx wrote: »

Lets face it most people (now note I said most) in the public sector do **** all...
Im in the private sector & work with alot of public sector organisations & I keep them up to date & then hours later I get a call off them asking whats going on... I've mailed & left voice messages & about 4 hours later they still haven't read or listened to them...
They do nothing... I do be waiting for days for replies about the simplist of things...

Also I had a friend that worked doing files & she was doing about 20 a day when she first started & then she was told by all her collegues to stop doing so much because she was showing them up...
Now she should have been doing less because she was new & only getting into it...

What is most?

I have been in the public sector for almost 6 years.

While I have come across a handful of deadwood/braindead or whatever you want to call them, individuals. It's certainly far from most. My area has been understaffed for the past few years and just got worse due to a combination of decentralisation and the moratorium.

Now we are trying to implement emergency processes for dealing with the workload, such as dedicating one day a week to take calls from the public/customers and notifying them that we can't take calls the rest of the week.

None of this kind of thing is spoken about though.

Kimbot

Riskymove wrote: »

bank workers in Permanent TSB

Aren't they private sector tho??

Wiley1

Riskymove wrote: »

there is a new scheme available that will pay people up to 12,000 a year to feck off for three years as a way of saving money

there has been very little take up

Just to add to that, the posts that are left are not filled putting more work on others, and it's capped and the pension levy comes out of it.

jimmmy

Riskymove wrote: »

there is a new scheme available that will pay people up to 12,000 a year to feck off for three years as a way of saving money

there has been very little take up

Wonder has anyone any statistics on that...I know 2 people doing it....one of them wanted to give up work for a three years anyway while her children were at a certain age, before she will return to the workforce....she is delighted she will get paid by the govt for doing nothing for 3 years and have a job to go back to..

gurramok

Riskymove wrote:

reduce pay by removing what was given by benchmarking

Hold on. Thats reverse benchmarking. Thats a paycut and we have public sector voices here vehemently opposed to any paycut hence this proposal is a non-starter for them as the cuts would be huge.

Darragh29

I_am_Jebus wrote: »

What is most?

I have been in the public sector for almost 6 years.

While I have come across a handful of deadwood/braindead or whatever you want to call them, individuals. It's certainly far from most. My area has been understaffed for the past few years and just got worse due to a combination of decentralisation and the moratorium.

Now we are trying to implement emergency processes for dealing with the workload, such as dedicating one day a week to take calls from the public/customers and notifying them that we can't take calls the rest of the week.

None of this kind of thing is spoken about though.

You see, this is the kind of thing that happens in the private sector in the space of an hour. The notion that you could tell your customers in a private sector organisation that you could only take calls from them on one day of the week would be laughed out the door. No private sector business could survive on this basis, if the phones are not answered for 4/5 days of the week, then the business obviously will decline by 4/5 or 80%. So we all lose our jobs and we go on the dole. So we get stuck in and we find a way to take the calls 5/5 days of the week and get everything else that needs to be done, done, and we get to fight for another day. It might mean coming in at 7AM and going home at 9PM, but so be it, it keeps us all in a job...

Wiley1

jimmmy wrote: »

Wonder has anyone any statistics on that...I know 2 people doing it....one of them wanted to give up work for a three years anyway while her children were at a certain age, before she will return to the workforce....she is delighted she will get paid by the govt for doing nothing for 3 years and have a job to go back to..

Should she be discriminated against because she wants to rear her kids and take advantage of a work initiative? God forbid she takes time to mind the kids, because she will be doing "nothing" for all the time she's at home with them,

That takes the most unthoughtout post of the day for me.

Wiley1

jimmmy wrote: »

Wonder has anyone any statistics on that...I know 2 people doing it....one of them wanted to give up work for a three years anyway while her children were at a certain age, before she will return to the workforce....she is delighted she will get paid by the govt for doing nothing for 3 years and have a job to go back to..

Should she be discriminated against because she wants to rear her kids and take advantage of a work initiative? God forbid she takes time to mind the kids, because she will be doing "nothing" for all the time she's at home with them,

That takes the most unthoughtout post of the day for me.

I_am_Jebus

gurramok wrote: »

Hold on. Thats reverse benchmarking. Thats a paycut and we have public sector voices here vehemently opposed to any paycut hence this proposal is a non-starter for them as the cuts would be huge.

i think you will find that you can;t tar everyone with the same brush.
Riskymove has suggested that, and I (also a PS worker) have no problem with that.

I think you will find, as I've said, that the core of the problem is the way the PS is being treated by the Government, the private sector and the media.

As I've said I'll gladly take a pay cut but it needs to be done along with other measures and the government needs to ensure the publication and media attention focusing on a number of issues and not just this one issue all the time.

jimmmy

Wiley1 wrote: »

Should she be discriminated against because she wants to rear her kids

everyone who has kids wants to rear them.

Wiley1 wrote: »

and take advantage of a work initiative?

nice work initiative if you can get it...and who pays for it ?

Wiley1 wrote: »

God forbid she takes time to mind the kids, because she will be doing "nothing" for all the time she's at home with them,

Nothing in exchange for the money she gets from the public service dept she used to work for. Of course inside the home kids still have to be reared....irrespective if one gets handouts from the govt or not.

If she had not kids, she could go travelling around Australia + the southern hemisphere for a year, like another p.s employee I know taking advantage to the same "work initiative" lol

Wiley1

jimmmy wrote: »

everyone who has kids wants to rear them.



nice work initiative if you can get it...and who pays for it ?



Nothing in exchange for the money she gets from the public service dept she used to work for. Of course inside the home kids still have to be reared....irrespective if one gets handouts from the govt or not.

If she had not kids, she could go travelling around Australia + the southern hemisphere for a year, like another p.s employee I know taking advantage to the same "work initiative" lol

Great job if you can get it eh?

I believe that one of the major problems with underage delinquency is the fact that mothers are not at home when kids get in from school or the street or whatever, I know a girl taking the 3 year option to raise the 3 girls she has and she is saving 280 a week on childcare and the job will pay her 200pw, why wouldn't she. It still saves 2 years wages and gives the mother an option to return to work. IMHO i think it is a good idea.

Fair enough if you can use it for travelling, all the better.

miju

SparkyLarks wrote: »

this is what makes the private sector go mad

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/0929/breaking52.htm

clever move if you think about it . There'll be usual gnashing of teeth and last minute all night talks.

End result ???? Pay claim will be dropped by union and HSE workers wages won't be dropped further and other unions will then follow suit so no further wage cut will arrive in public sector for forseeable future.

Both sides will then be able to claim victory

I_am_Jebus

Darragh29 wrote: »

You see, this is the kind of thing that happens in the private sector in the space of an hour. The notion that you could tell your customers in a private sector organisation that you could only take calls from them on one day of the week would be laughed out the door. No private sector business could survive on this basis, if the phones are not answered for 4/5 days of the week, then the business obviously will decline by 4/5 or 80%. So we all lose our jobs and we go on the dole. So we get stuck in and we find a way to take the calls 5/5 days of the week and get everything else that needs to be done, done, and we get to fight for another day. It might mean coming in at 7AM and going home at 9PM, but so be it, it keeps us all in a job...

The point you are missing, is that the public service often provides a very different kind of service to what a private can or does. Believe me, I and the other staff in my area of work, work beyond the hours required for no extra pay. This work is ongoing for the past three years and with the resources available we are not able to manage the work load. Senior management are aware of it but they're hands are tied.

even with extra hours being put into it we can't provide the level of service required. So instead we are looking at other ways to keep the ship afloat. So we hope to approach our customers and say, listen we can take all your queries (phone/email/letter) on a friday and answer any questions you might have. But we can;t do it the rest of the week because we are working on processing your service. That way, we hope that with constant uninterrupted (i.e. from phone calls) work flows Mon - Thurs we hope to speed up the processing of your service request and get the end result to you quicker.

A non cost related approach to a major problem seems like an inovative (if simple) way of handling problems to me. Sorry you don't agree.

The part of your quote I've highlighted in bold is a serious "greater than thou" bullsh1t attitude that lends nothing to the discussion to be honest.

miju

jimmmy wrote: »

If she had not kids, she could go travelling around Australia + the southern hemisphere for a year, like another p.s employee I know taking advantage to the same "work initiative" lol

and if my aunt had bollocks she'd be my uncle :rolleyes: . Fact of matter that PS employee you "know" travelling around Australia is saving taxpayer money as they are either:

A: on unpaid career break / unpaid leave
B: 1/3rd of pay , paid career break that was introduced in the last budget by the gubberment in order to save money.

Really can't win with you can we LOL

Wiley1

miju wrote: »

and if my aunt had bollocks she'd be my uncle :rolleyes: . Fact of matter that PS employee you "know" travelling around Australia is saving taxpayer money as they are either:

A: on unpaid career break / unpaid leave
B: 1/3rd of pay , paid career break that was introduced in the last budget by the gubberment in order to save money.

Really can't win with you can we LOL

Voice of reason, well put, especially the first line.

jimmmy

Riskymove wrote: »

there is a new scheme available that will pay people up to 12,000 a year to feck off for three years as a way of saving money

jimmmy

miju wrote: »

Fact of matter that PS employee you "know" travelling around Australia is saving taxpayer money as they are either:
A: on unpaid career break / unpaid leave
B: 1/3rd of pay , paid career break that was introduced in the last budget by the gubberment in order to save money.

correct. In this case I believe its B. If the IMF moves in I believe it will cut out such " work initiaves" as being too costly. Just fire 'em.

murphaph

miju wrote: »

and if my aunt had bollocks she'd be my uncle :rolleyes: . Fact of matter that PS employee you "know" travelling around Australia is saving taxpayer money as they are either:

A: on unpaid career break / unpaid leave
B: 1/3rd of pay , paid career break that was introduced in the last budget by the gubberment in order to save money.

Really can't win with you can we LOL

If they are truly surplus to requirements (and one presumes they are if they can leave for 3 years and not be missed) then perhaps they should just be made redundant and save the taxpayer the remaining third.

I_am_Jebus

murphaph wrote: »

If they are truly surplus to requirements (and one presumes they are if they can leave for 3 years and not be missed) then perhaps they should just be made redundant and save the taxpayer the remaining third.

They are not surplus to requirements. That's the problem. The Government introduced it without taking into account the problems created. I assume, it was a measure to temporarily reduce Department numbers and wages costs over three years. I don't believe any assessment was made on either:
a) effect on service provision of the unit/area from which each member has left
b) how to handle the management of the work post departure of a member.

As a PS worker, I don't agree with the measure for a variety of reasons.

jimmmy

I_am_Jebus wrote: »

As a PS worker, I don't agree with the measure for a variety of reasons.

:DAll due respect, if you wanted to travel around the world for a few years, or take 3 years off to raise your kids, you would probably think its a great idea. If someone would pay me to holiday in Oz + the southern hemisphere for 3 years I would'nt say no .
There are self employed people here in Ireland, in negative equity, and who cannot leave, who earn less than some p.s. on their " work initiaves" career breaks.
When the revolution comes....

Darragh29

I_am_Jebus wrote: »

The point you are missing, is that the public service often provides a very different kind of service to what a private can or does. Believe me, I and the other staff in my area of work, work beyond the hours required for no extra pay. This work is ongoing for the past three years and with the resources available we are not able to manage the work load. Senior management are aware of it but they're hands are tied.

even with extra hours being put into it we can't provide the level of service required. So instead we are looking at other ways to keep the ship afloat. So we hope to approach our customers and say, listen we can take all your queries (phone/email/letter) on a friday and answer any questions you might have. But we can;t do it the rest of the week because we are working on processing your service. That way, we hope that with constant uninterrupted (i.e. from phone calls) work flows Mon - Thurs we hope to speed up the processing of your service request and get the end result to you quicker.

A non cost related approach to a major problem seems like an inovative (if simple) way of handling problems to me. Sorry you don't agree.

The part of your quote I've highlighted in bold is a serious "greater than thou" bullsh1t attitude that lends nothing to the discussion to be honest.

You see your point above goes to the very heart of my argument...

Just because you work for an entity, in this case the state, and in terms of the continuance of your employment, the state is not relying on those phones being answered 5 days a week in order to pay your salary to you, this doesn't mean as it is kind of suggested in your post above, that the rules should be so fundamentally different as they are from a private sector employment...

I've no doubt that the words flexibility and performance have different meanings in the public and the private sector.

I_am_Jebus

jimmmy wrote: »

:DAll due respect, if you wanted to travel around the world for a few years, or take 3 years off to raise your kids, you would probably think its a great idea. If someone would pay me to holiday in Oz + the southern hemisphere for 3 years I would'nt say no .
There are self employed people here in Ireland, in negative equity, and who cannot leave, who earn less than some p.s. on their " work initiaves" career breaks.
When the revolution comes....

Tongue in cheek I hope?

Sure it's like that with everything. The reality of it is, is that I woudl like to keep my current salary and work one day a week. But it's not realistic.

the same can be said about the private sector during the boom times... seemed like a great idea when some people were making an absolute fortunte.

But I don't begrudge any of them really, they took advantage of what was being offered to them (public sector in relation to Career breaks, private sector in terms of making a mint, while usually ripping people off).

That's why this whole public versus private thing is a joke. And even more so a smokescreen for the real issues. Like frontline last night it's all just set up to bounce one group against another.

Instead what should be happening is all citizens of the state uniting and bouncing against the Government. They were the ones who allowed/fuelled the country to run away with itself. Helped create bubbles, creamed the system through corruption, come up with/implement mad schemes (like this paid career break and many others). But they are more or less getting off scot free because of this raging arguement between everyone.