Public sector pay: the wrong debate

P. Breathnach · 03-12-2009 2:25am

TCP/IP_King wrote: »

Overpaying for Nama may hit taxpayer for €30bn

The Irish Times - Tuesday, September 15, 2009

That's a back-of-an-envelope calculation. There is not enough information in the public domain to allow anybody to make a good estimate. There might not even be enough data collated in private to allow a good estimate to be made.

My own guess is that NAMA will cost us billions, but probably nowhere near Morgan Kelly's Cassandra prediction.

Spiritoftheseventies · 03-12-2009 10:38am

Is it just me but was the 12 days unpaid leave put forward by the Union bosses instead of taking a pay cut some sort of joke. Are these guys serious?

NOGMaxpower · 03-12-2009 11:20am

bayviewclose wrote: »

Is it just me but was the 12 days unpaid leave put forward by the Union bosses instead of taking a pay cut some sort of joke. Are these guys serious?

Ok well here's the facts....

12 days unpaid leave = 4.6% wage cut. This equates to €100 a month from a salary of 35k a year.

what a load of f'ing ****e.

4.6%, i mean come off it, the private sector has taken 20% on average and that average is getting higher with each day that passes and with more and more private sector workers signing on.

Personally i dropped 600 a month, between salary cuts and the levys. I find that a very hard pill to swallow.

Cowen has backed down at a moment that would've redfined his image and our nations image in the EU. He had the chance of serious reform somehting our state has never had in our history.

He's spineless and the Public Sector are nothing but selfish and not in touch with reality. These numbers have just caused me to explode, I thought yeh sure the Public Sector are doing ok with 12 days unpaid leave but seeing how they've reacted and how little that actually means to their salaries is a complete disgrace and they should all be ashamed of themselves.

Its also emerged that high paid public servants are exampt from PRSI raises and what had already been raised: http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/surviving-the-recession/113000-public-servants-will-escape-prsi-hike-1962365.html

wtf

RodgerTheDoger · 03-12-2009 2:03pm

NOGMaxpower wrote: »

Ok well here's the facts....

12 days unpaid leave = 4.6% wage cut. This equates to €100 a month from a salary of 35k a year.

what a load of f'ing ****e.

4.6%, i mean come off it, the private sector has taken 20% on average and that average is getting higher with each day that passes and with more and more private sector workers signing on.

Personally i dropped 600 a month, between salary cuts and the levys. I find that a very hard pill to swallow.

Cowen has backed down at a moment that would've redfined his image and our nations image in the EU. He had the chance of serious reform somehting our state has never had in our history.

He's spineless and the Public Sector are nothing but selfish and not in touch with reality. These numbers have just caused me to explode, I thought yeh sure the Public Sector are doing ok with 12 days unpaid leave but seeing how they've reacted and how little that actually means to their salaries is a complete disgrace and they should all be ashamed of themselves.

Its also emerged that high paid public servants are exampt from PRSI raises and what had already been raised: http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/surviving-the-recession/113000-public-servants-will-escape-prsi-hike-1962365.html

wtf

Agreed, the ship is sinking, the public sector is in a lot of trouble.... They are trying to hang on to what they can, but I think they fail to see the seriousness of the situation.

Riddle me this, what is the average wage of a public sector worker? 40 - 50 euro maybe????

Most of the Civil Servants with the same qualification in the UK earn maybe between 15 - 25K a year.

P. Breathnach · 03-12-2009 2:09pm

RodgerTheDoger wrote: »

...Riddle me this, what is the average wage of a public sector worker? 40 - 50 euro maybe????

Most of the Civil Servants with the same qualification in the UK earn maybe between 15 - 25K a year.

Citation, please.

Spiritoftheseventies · 03-12-2009 2:19pm

P. Breathnach wrote: »

That's a back-of-an-envelope calculation. There is not enough information in the public domain to allow anybody to make a good estimate. There might not even be enough data collated in private to allow a good estimate to be made.

My own guess is that NAMA will cost us billions, but probably nowhere near Morgan Kelly's Cassandra prediction.

According to shane Ross yesterday, NAMA is all but off the shelves now. Nationalisation is on the cards.

irish_bob · 03-12-2009 2:26pm

RodgerTheDoger wrote: »

Agreed, the ship is sinking, the public sector is in a lot of trouble.... They are trying to hang on to what they can, but I think they fail to see the seriousness of the situation.

Riddle me this, what is the average wage of a public sector worker? 40 - 50 euro maybe????

Most of the Civil Servants with the same qualification in the UK earn maybe between 15 - 25K a year.

the average public sector wage is just shy of 50 k per year

BaZmO* · 03-12-2009 2:40pm

irish_bob wrote: »

the average public sector wage is just shy of 50 k per year

Is that true? Is there any sources for this?

Although if a teacher in her fourth year is earning just under 45K I'm not surprised.

the_syco · 03-12-2009 2:41pm

RodgerTheDoger wrote: »

Most of the Civil Servants with the same qualification in the UK earn maybe between 15 - 25K a year.

What's the average pay over there? Not including the London "bonus" for working in London.

RodgerTheDoger · 03-12-2009 3:06pm

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Citation, please.

http://www.civilservant.org.uk/pay.shtml

Is says that over a quarter of the civil service work force earn under 15K a year.

RodgerTheDoger · 03-12-2009 3:08pm

RodgerTheDoger wrote: »

http://www.civilservant.org.uk/pay.shtml

Is says that over a quarter of the civil service work force earn under 15K a year.

Actually this was 2006

According to this the average wage is 27K

http://www.mysalary.co.uk/average-salary/Civil_Servant_529

But that at the moment is what about 30K euro?

RodgerTheDoger · 03-12-2009 3:13pm

BaZmO* wrote: »

Is that true? Is there any sources for this?

Although if a teacher in her fourth year is earning just under 45K I'm not surprised.

I found this

http://www.ronanlyons.com/2009/02/04/public-sector-pay-in-ireland-the-e50000-question-its-not-that-difficult/

Putting the average Public sector wage at 50K

NOGMaxpower · 03-12-2009 4:08pm

RodgerTheDoger wrote: »

I found this

http://www.ronanlyons.com/2009/02/04/public-sector-pay-in-ireland-the-e50000-question-its-not-that-difficult/

Putting the average Public sector wage at 50K

so the public sector have always been paid more on average... grrrrrr

thebman · 03-12-2009 4:23pm

bayviewclose wrote: »

According to shane Ross yesterday, NAMA is all but off the shelves now. Nationalisation is on the cards.

lol are you sure?

Shea O'Meara · 03-12-2009 4:55pm

bayviewclose wrote: »

According to shane Ross yesterday, NAMA is all but off the shelves now. Nationalisation is on the cards.

I was wondering why they let Mary O'Rourke out of her box.
I find the foot in mouth of the lady (re: unpaid leave, http://news.eircom.net/breakingnews/16900069/) entertaining. She might reverse the whole Eircom dealy

*The average pay of the Private sector worker is 100,000*

murphaph · 03-12-2009 4:57pm

NOGMaxpower wrote: »

so the public sector have always been paid more on average... grrrrrr

ssshhhh. You're not supposed to know that ;-) Did you not know that all we should talk about are civil servants on 30k and bankers on a million or two. That's the sort of comparison the public unions sector like! comparing REAL averages in both sectors tends to be erm, embarrassing for the bearded men!

Ronan Lyons is spot on-Benchmarking (flawed as it was) defined that public sector wages should fall with private sector ones-but the unions who agreed to it are now refusing to honour their side of the deal-CHEATS!

Wiley1 · 03-12-2009 5:05pm

zebrafumbler wrote: »

It's quite easy to see how fascist dictators can rise to power when theres a weak government in charge of a country kowtowing to Union leaders . On a number of occasions, Cowen has proven how weak and ineffective he is as leader; not to mention no charisma. We need a strong visionary leader to take us out of the trouble we are in, unfortunately all we have is Mr Potato head Cowen. As seen as there doesn't appear to be much in the way of an alternative to his leadership maybe it would be a good thing if the IMF came in. Is it any wonder why union leaders and clergy are the first to go when an American backed fascist dictator comes to power in Latin America.

At this point in Irish politics I think that the general populous would take the option of a dictator, at least someone would make a decision, It's so frustrating watching the to-ing and fro-ing and nothing coming from it. Cowen is a spinless lump of in desicion and should be outed.

All these guys think about is whether or not they'll be elected next time around to line their own pockets, greedy, corrupt, useless shower of monkeys, basically letting the press guide them around like sheep.

Unpopular realities are on the way but just do it already, Cut the public pay and end this argument between the 2 sectors, It's boring and stressful...

Take your pound of flesh Cowen but you may never ever visit Meath again...not ever.....Brian Coward sounds more like it....

Wiley1 · 03-12-2009 5:11pm

BaZmO* wrote: »

Is that true? Is there any sources for this?

Although if a teacher in her fourth year is earning just under 45K I'm not surprised.

This isn't true, maybe highly qualified engineers but I am grade 5 technical and I don't see the colour of 50k a year, bullsh*te put out there to fuel the fire.

Spiritoftheseventies · 03-12-2009 5:36pm

Listening to the radio and it seems Union bosses are under the impression we are getting the wrong end of the sticks re this unpaid leave. The less pressure on them the more chance they have of getting it through.

BaZmO* · 03-12-2009 5:44pm

Wiley1 wrote: »

This isn't true, maybe highly qualified engineers but I am grade 5 technical and I don't see the colour of 50k a year, bullsh*te put out there to fuel the fire.

Really? What about a 25 year old in her fourth year of teaching primary school children?

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/education/2009/1124/1224259332656.html?via=mr

And I never said 50K a year I said 45K

Saint Ruth · 03-12-2009 5:44pm

Shea O'Meara wrote: »

I was wondering why they let Mary O'Rourke out of her box.
I find the foot in mouth of the lady (re: unpaid leave, http://news.eircom.net/breakingnews/16900069/) entertaining.

Well, said Mary: "We will not be going the route of (unpaid leave) right now to realise money. If it realises money in the future, fine, but not right now."

I fall to see any "Foot in the mouth?...

Spiritoftheseventies · 03-12-2009 8:23pm

Liam Doran very annoyed that people still going on about the 12 days leave. Said we should see what comes out of the negotiations. Problem is Govt don't have a very good record on that. We saw how the deal with religious orders was done. Pushed in on last day of dail.
And we already now how messy the NAMA business is.

Pride Fighter · 03-12-2009 8:35pm

It is the wrong debate, I agree. With Fianna Fail handing 10 billion in bank re-capitalisation, 54 billion for NAMA, an 8 billion deficit last year, 22 billion this year, that is a 94 billion hole in the Irish finances caused entirely by Fianna Fail. That is the right debate. Saying the facts that Fianna Fail have screwed Ireland due to their selfish interests and not the interests of the Irish people.

irish_bob · 03-12-2009 9:34pm

murphaph wrote: »

ssshhhh. You're not supposed to know that ;-) Did you not know that all we should talk about are civil servants on 30k and bankers on a million or two. That's the sort of comparison the public unions sector like! comparing REAL averages in both sectors tends to be erm, embarrassing for the bearded men!

Ronan Lyons is spot on-Benchmarking (flawed as it was) defined that public sector wages should fall with private sector ones-but the unions who agreed to it are now refusing to honour their side of the deal-CHEATS!

indeed , sean dunne is your average private sector earner while mary the clerical officer in the dept of agri in portloaise is your run of the mill state sector worker

RodgerTheDoger · 04-12-2009 9:53am

Wiley1 wrote: »

This isn't true, maybe highly qualified engineers but I am grade 5 technical and I don't see the colour of 50k a year, bullsh*te put out there to fuel the fire.

Well maybe not for you, but on average it is. There are always going to be those at the lower end of the pay scale even in the Public sector. The average is 50K according to my earlier link.

Spiritoftheseventies · 04-12-2009 9:59am

Shea O'Meara wrote: »

I was wondering why they let Mary O'Rourke out of her box.
I find the foot in mouth of the lady (re: unpaid leave, http://news.eircom.net/breakingnews/16900069/) entertaining. She might reverse the whole Eircom dealy

*The average pay of the Private sector worker is 100,000*

Well she is a senator now so she can say what she wants at this stage.

RodgerTheDoger · 04-12-2009 10:07am

irish_bob wrote: »

indeed , sean dunne is your average private sector earner while mary the clerical officer in the dept of agri in portloaise is your run of the mill state sector worker

LOL this is a joke right? I actually don't know where this joke is aimed at.

RodgerTheDoger · 04-12-2009 10:17am

Today I see in the news papers that, small and medium sized business's are threatening not to pay their tax if the government does not take a firm stance in addressing the reduction needed in Public sector costs.

Saint Ruth · 04-12-2009 11:00am

bayviewclose wrote: »

Well she is a senator now so she can say what she wants at this stage.

She is not a Senator, she's a TD...

She was a senator until re-elected to teh Dail...

irish_bob · 04-12-2009 11:30am

RodgerTheDoger wrote: »

LOL this is a joke right? I actually don't know where this joke is aimed at.

yeah it is rog , forgot to include this guy :rolleyes:

Public sector pay: the wrong debate

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