[BPB] Submissions

melekalikimaka

time ticks on again

we need to decided rules and deadlines for submission

this will take the longest of it all i fear.

I personally think a cap should be placed early.

and first come first serve... as in, FINAL SUBMISSIONS SUBMITTED, first come first serve, not names for it.

Personally I would 'like' to offer the forum regulars an assured space... but I fear that may cause a bit of disgruntledness and require definition of 'regular'

...proceed

smelltheglove

I agree first come first served and definitly a strict deadline

sineadw

Great! I've been completely out of the loop on this for months (sorry) First come first served for deffo though

AnCatDubh

Yes, but being devil's advocate again (i appear to be doing that a lot this evening), those who responded to the previous thread (now locked) should perhaps have some claim to places on it. There's a whole list of defo's in there (sinead - you are fine, you're in there - I checked before posting )

These to be precise;

1Star, alb, AnCatDubh, artyeva, astimpson, Ballyman, bernard0368, Brndn, Buzz Lightyear, Cabaal, CabanSail, cambo_gueno, car, challengemaster, cooligPhoto, Cosmo K, Covey, Crispin, cute_cow, dakar, DarrenG, dar_d, daycent, dazftw, democrates, dermotcw, DeVore, Dink, domcq, DotOrg, Edser, Eirebear, encyclopedia, ericl, faceman, Fionn, floydmoon1, fluffyVW, gandalf, Hearvee, homerun_homer, homer_simpson, humberklog, Ideo, ike, irlirishkev, joolsveer, kateos2, kensutz, kjt, landyman, liamtinney, Longshanks100, mart_max, mehfesto2, melekalikimaka, mloc, Morrisseeee, mrboswell, mrmac, m_s_nixon, Nanoc, nilhg, NORTH1, oscarBravo, Panhour, Paulw, Peace, pete4130, Pivot_Al, Ponster, PopeBuckfastXVI, positivenote, Quackles, rahtkennades, rameire, Rb, RoryW, Ruu, sineadw, stabo, stephendm, sunny2004, superflyninja, swingking, t00116131, Thoie, ThOnda, trishw78, Trizo, trooney, Trotter, Valentia, whyulittle, Woddle, xia

and the reserves;

5uspect, bravo, bren2002, Broxi_Bear_Eire, CampbellsSoupO, cianor, clearly, Dades, Daz R1, dinneenp, Dodgykeeper, duffman85, eightcell, fuzzywuzzy1, GhostInTheRuins, Hugh_C, jen_23, John, KarmaGarda, Kbeg3, keps, Kintarō Hattori, KylieWyley, lalee17, mixer101, Mr E, Nisio, oshead, pullandbang, robinph, sasar, sheesh, Sleepy, smelltheglove, vervevalley, waldo, WillyWonka, xshayx, zaraba

I suspect that everyone on both lists that will actually turn into a submission can be accommodated - remember circumstance (feicin recession) has changed for many and some may not be in a position to go for it this time around. Put a maximum ceiling of a number of pages appropriate to the pricing which will be selected.

BUT, here's the kicker - I suggest that you put a cut off date, nice and early to get photographs submitted - the reason is the run up to Christmas to enable people to order well in advance for Christmas gifts etc... If someone on the list doesn't get theirs submitted by that date then they no longer have a guaranteed place in the book and their entries are open to others.

I know this will spurn people (like me) into action on it - mind you, I think I already have my image selected so I should be ok

PCPhoto

pah !!! .... my names not on the list - - guess I have to join the second reserves :P....the reserves reserves if you will

TelePaul

Not to be contentious about this, but where did people 'officially' sign up? I thought I had done enough by expressing my interest here, but maybe not?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=60412368&postcount=48

ThOnda

First come, first served? Sounds funny from Sineadw, who submitted her picture as the first one last year

Valentia

OK. Let's get movin' so.....

Where and when?

AnCatDubh

TelePaul wrote: »

Not to be contentious about this, but where did people 'officially' sign up? I thought I had done enough by expressing my interest here, but maybe not?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=60412368&postcount=48

It was actually the poll at the top of the thread - the yes defo option.

I'd be thinking that you and should anyone else be in the same boat, having written on thread but not clicked the poll then you should of course be on the defo list. Just an opinion though - lord mele can sort that one out :pac:

Actually, there was someone else iirc that had expressed that they wanted to change their option from a maybe to a defo and that wouldn't be reflected either so they too (who ever they are) would be in the same boat. Whoever you are, please post on thread here (link to the original post would be useful too).

Thoie

AnCatDubh wrote: »

remember circumstance (feicin recession) has changed for many and some may not be in a position to go for it this time around.

And it looks like I'll be one of those. Will have to bow out of submitting this time around, but if there's anything I can do to help, just shout.

artyeva

what we (for we read I:rolleyes:) need is a date - not a definate day and time as yet but a month at least so we (I) can get working towards it? then when we have any further guidelines like aspect ratio, size, etc., these can be worked on.

so that I'm not all headless chicken like the night before :P

Ruu_Old

smelltheglove wrote: »

I agree first come first served and definitly a strict deadline

This, simple as that. No time wasting.

m_s_nixon

melekalikimaka wrote: »

and first come first serve... as in, FINAL SUBMISSIONS SUBMITTED, first come first serve, not names for it.

I don't really like this idea, i feel it's just going to result in poorer quality photo's and photo's that people aren't entirely happy with because they'll just be trying to get a photo submitted early to make sure they get something in the book

also i think that poll should be declared void, it's good for a rough idea of numbers but there are members there who won't be submitting an image, and there are members not there who will be sumitting an image..

i suggest a new poll or a copy and paste list for people to add their name to

TelePaul

AnCatDubh wrote: »

It was actually the poll at the top of the thread - the yes defo option.

I'd be thinking that you and should anyone else be in the same boat, having written on thread but not clicked the poll then you should of course be on the defo list. Just an opinion though - lord mele can sort that one out :pac:

Actually, there was someone else iirc that had expressed that they wanted to change their option from a maybe to a defo and that wouldn't be reflected either so they too (who ever they are) would be in the same boat. Whoever you are, please post on thread here (link to the original post would be useful too).

I'm fairly sure I clicked 'Yes defo' but I'm not sure when the poll was added...if it was added after I posted, I probably wouldnt have revisited it. Either way I'll still be buying the book.

mobileblog

I forgot all about this, but if there is second list of reserves them please put my name down.

melekalikimaka

to be honest, i wasnt gonna go by the previous list... i think that maybe a few weeks....maybe 2 realistically.... with a sticy with a deadline, would be enough to get the regulars on photography and then the roamers with an interest to get going... i might try tap devore for a public annoucement, if the powers that be approve to kick the non regulars into gear, and if anything else to promote awareness. talking to mods i have realised theres alot to do, i really will need alot of active input by you lot to get this working. all help appriciated, and duely noted in book

CabanSail

I have not done it, but I believe we can post an Annoucement in just the Photography section. This should give a heads up to the regulars here without annoying the rest of the site.

As for the Poll, it was placed in the previous sticky a long time back when I started that thread. The idea was to get the ball rolling. As mele is now running the book it's up to him to decided how much weight that poll is given.

The notion that quality will suffer if there is a "first come" selection process should not have a bearing. This book has been in the planning stage for a long time now, it's not like it's evolving from an idea like last time. The photo you select represents you as an individual and the community as a whole. I don't think there are many who post here that would want any olde dribble to be their photo just to get a place.

AnCatDubh

melekalikimaka wrote: »

i might try tap devore for a public annoucement,

A downside to the announcement is that you begin attracting users from across the entire site that mightn't be 'clued' in. I think the previous reference to "quality/first come" is somewhat related that you may get some well intentioned individuals from other parts of the site just submitting for the sake of supporting the project (again yes well intentioned). With the previous poll, you know at least one thing - that the individuals have frequented the forum and have the interest and are probably in some way keyed in. I'd be for keeping it local for submissions. The previous poll could be used as a basis to get people to reaffirm their commitment by means of pm.

Eitherways, probably enough chatter on that - over to you melekalikimaka for the decision. Set up your direction here and away we go....

Dodgykeeper

Is this the Boards.ie photobook or the Boards.ie photo forum photo book, if its a first come first served basis you will get some ****e photos from non regulars who just happened to come across it and have no qualms about paying 40 yo yo to get a pic in print, Mele needs to be pro active about this and come up with a selection procedure!

Anouilh

To save time and energy, why not also look back over photos uploaded here during the year and ask if the owner would like to submit?

I never offer my work, as it is so time consuming and the uncertainty causes adrenelin rushes...

Placebo

AnCatDubh wrote: »

Yes, but being devil's advocate again (i appear to be doing that a lot this evening), those who responded to the previous thread (now locked) should perhaps have some claim to places on it. There's a whole list of defo's in there (sinead - you are fine, you're in there - I checked before posting )

These to be precise;



and the reserves;



I suspect that everyone on both lists that will actually turn into a submission can be accommodated - remember circumstance (feicin recession) has changed for many and some may not be in a position to go for it this time around. Put a maximum ceiling of a number of pages appropriate to the pricing which will be selected.

BUT, here's the kicker - I suggest that you put a cut off date, nice and early to get photographs submitted - the reason is the run up to Christmas to enable people to order well in advance for Christmas gifts etc... If someone on the list doesn't get theirs submitted by that date then they no longer have a guaranteed place in the book and their entries are open to others.

I know this will spurn people (like me) into action on it - mind you, I think I already have my image selected so I should be ok

wow didnt make the cut, i check this forum everyday , im not sure if the first come first server scenario would work best, there needs to be a weighted system for regulars, not to act like a clique but regulars would be the ones that will be more likely to come through and purchase and promote?

pullandbang

My 2 cents worth - looking through the two lists I see quite a few names that I don't see here on a regular basis. In fact there's a few I don't remember ever seeing here. Will they show up when it's time to submit?

Rb

I wouldn't make a sitewide announcement of the submissions to be honest, as AnCatDubh & Dodgykeeper pointed out you'll get a load of ****e submissions which only waste time in filtering through them, then you'll have upset people who didn't get their picture in despite never posting in the photo forum.

Placebo, you didn't not make the cut, you just didn't opt-in properly. I wouldn't worry about it though.

Dodgykeeper

This was a community project last year and the majority of the submissions (if not all) came from photo forum regulars, my fear is that it will be taken over by non regulars and this will dilute the community spirit of the project, the designer of the project is not even a regular on this forum ffs. Can we not just get back to basics and produce a photobook of our work!

oscarBravo

Dodgykeeper wrote: »

...the designer of the project is not even a regular on this forum ffs.

The volunteer to design the project is a regular lurker on this forum, was a somewhat active contributor last year when he had more time to spend on photography, and had a photo published in last year's book.

But thanks for your input.

Dodgykeeper

oscarBravo wrote: »

The volunteer to design the project is a regular lurker on this forum, was a somewhat active contributor last year when he had more time to spend on photography, and had a photo published in last year's book.

But thanks for your input.

Thanks for thanking me for my input but really there was no need!

Paulw

I hadn't submitted to the previous book, but I'd certainly be very interested this year.

I have to agree with others though, that regular posters to the photography section should have priority over others. It seems only fair.

DotOrg

is their a reason why we can't get a group of 5-10 people who can spend an afternoon selecting the photos based on their quality alone from submissions from everybody on boards. it would make the book a higher quality and other boards users would be more likely to buy it than just us photo nerds

AnCatDubh

DotOrg wrote: »

is their a reason why we can't get a group of 5-10 people who can spend an afternoon selecting the photos based on their quality alone from submissions from everybody on boards. it would make the book a higher quality and other boards users would be more likely to buy it than just us photo nerds

I don't think there's a particular reason why logistically this wouldn't work, however, the ethos of the forum is welcoming of all levels of expertise. This we as a community hold dear. It is one of the most helpful places on the internet that you can come and discuss anything about photography. Last year there was some discussion as to naming the book "random thread - offline edition" and while the name didn't stick, the ethos certainly did.

A formal selection process would remove some of that ethos such that unless you got to a particular level you can't be a member of the book club. Yes, then the cliched phrase of elitist comes into it. In fairness on the other hand it then becomes an instrument through which people may aspire to improve.

For many, to be published is a great joy and something that many a photographer may never get the opportunity of seeing their image in print in a real publication. This project, community driven, is one outlet for it. We are all about encouraging people to get out there and take photographs.

But I don't think last year the quality suffered as a result of the welcoming approach. I remember people giving pain staking attention to what it was they were going to submit. I remember the "Help me choose - i've only 24 hours left" threads, and so forth. To know that your image is going in there with some really good stuff is encouragement in itself to try be good.

I don't think we should be too worried about numbers and having to do a selection (if a suitable mechanism is found - last years Thondracy worked fine). 100 appears to be the magic number with a possibility of going to 120 for the same price. This ensures at least €500 - €600 of a charitable donation from the project for those taking part let alone what additional sales can be solicited.

I think if the images from last year are representative of the forum members (and some lurkers) then this year hasn't anything to be too concerned about unless the net gets cast wider into the wider boards site.

Paulw

AnCatDubh wrote: »

A formal selection process would remove some of that ethos such that unless you got to a particular level you can't be a member of the book club. Yes, then the cliched phrase of elitist comes into it. In fairness on the other hand it then becomes an instrument through which people may aspire to improve.

Any selection process can be claimed to make those selected "elite".

Of course everyone wants some quality control, as such.

If I'm not selected to enter a photo, I'd certainly offer my opinion on any selection criteria.

Best selection method would be standard prints of the images (8x10, 8x12 or whatever size), with no way to identify the photographer, except to an administrator. A blind eye, as such.

duffarama

I didn't take part in the previous stickied thread as I was waiting for this period of actual photo submitting and putting the book together. I had a print in last years book too, I guess as I didn't take part in the previous thread and am irregular in my posting that I'm at the bottom of the list, or am I barred from entry...

trishw78

Ok... so do we have a deadline decided yet I think that's the biggest decision that can be made now and everything else can fall into line afterwards. A lot of the people on both lists may not even submit come the deadline (the not so familiar Unames).

Fionn

was anyone refused last year?

if not

cant we use the same criteria as last year


if it aint borke etc....

TelePaul

So just to be clear, the thread with the poll has been ignored in favour of the 'regulars', who constitute the initial list? Not to de-rail things or take from the ethos and purpose of the book (SSF), but that doesn't seem...well, right? Maybe I'm missing something.

TelePaul

Also, judging by the size of the reserves list, some people will be disappointed. As this is the second annual photo book, it's probably reasonable to assume that there'll be another next year? If so, maybe take submissions on a rotary basis...those who submit this year won't be eligible next year?

Paulw

TelePaul wrote: »

Also, judging by the size of the reserves list, some people will be disappointed. As this is the second annual photo book, it's probably reasonable to assume that there'll be another next year? If so, maybe take submissions on a rotary basis...those who submit this year won't be eligible next year?

So, why can't that apply this year? ie those who were included last year are excluded this year??

I'm not sure people should be excluded on that basis, but it is an option, I guess.

melekalikimaka

personally i feel ideally there should be a selection process... i stated that months ago but got shot down for being elitist and so on so forth, as a result i though the direction was an equal oppertunities sorta thing where the good, the trying, and the whatever could all have a chance to be 'published'. Honestly I thought this was all sorted, its not... time is short... a quick decision in needed, and either way people are not gonna be happy.

dakar

The poll was up from the end of May, the thread until the other day. I would have thought that gave people a reasonable chance to express an interest.

I found having my picture in last year's book an overwhelmingly positive experience. I wouldn't want to deny anyone that, and if it comes to it, I'll put my space up for grabs if someone really feels hard done by and that they didn't get a fair chance to be included.

As regards last years entrants taking a back seat, then fair enough, but it would be difficult to claim a book represents the photography of the boards populace without (and I make no apologies for the non-random selection, it's not driven by elitism or cliquishness, but I chose them as they are some of my favourite shots from last year's book) DarrenG, sineadw, Covey, AnCatDubh etc etc etc

AnCatDubh

I think the numbers will probably add up and as Fionn said above, last year no one was left behind. To the contrary I think we struggled a little getting the last 10 or so images in (if memory serves me correctly)

When it comes to the crunch some will bottle out and circumstances will have changed for some.

As Trish says, i think you could probably start putting a date on it with the proviso that should too many submissions be received that then a selection process (to be decided at a later point) would kick in.

If that seems reasonable - A date so?????? and instruction as to how to submit (email address, etc).

pullandbang

I wasn't involved last year so I don't quite know how it worked.
So for what it's worth, why not get a deposit of say €20 (sort out the wheat from the chaff) with each submission, put a closing date on it and be done with it. Take the people from the "defo" list first, then the "maybe" list and then any others. If you've too many submissions do a draw and if you've not enough, scout for some more or let existing people put in another pic.

melekalikimaka

this is a no win situation, i can put up a quick poll, but given the time we have it wont be up long and b1tching will ensue... and i wrong in assuming this was sorted already

dakar

melekalikimaka wrote: »

this is a no win situation, i can put up a quick poll, but given the time we have it wont be up long and b1tching will ensue... and i wrong in assuming this was sorted already

I thought it was sorted too, time for some Melocracy I think! Crack that whip, ThOnda-Style!:D

melekalikimaka

dakar wrote: »

I thought it was sorted too, time for some Melocracy I think! Crack that whip, ThOnda-Style!:D

if needs be i will, see if anyone can find a solution asap, if not... Melocracy will ensue on this issue... i just dont want melodrama

Buzz Lightyear

I'd be one for the regulars to have a priority option - not a right. We do need to leave way for the lurkers.

Insofar as quality control is concerned, we have a number of exceptionally talented people here, who's image quality we need not be concerned about. I think that the majority of the regulars have improved their images from critism, observation and general participation. I would hope I'm included in this bunch. The regulars know the standard of the images that would be suitable for publication in a book. As for the lurkers. Everybody should be entitled to submit an image. I do think however that a poll for the selection of 'lurker images' would be the fairest. That way nobody can be accused of being in an elitest club. This poll could, it could be argued, could even be put out for the whole book, however I do think this would be too tedious.

As for a deadline. That time of year for which it is too early to mention , is coming around fast. We ideally need to have the books out by the beginning of December at the latest. In order to allow for distribution we would be looking at imo, a meet up on Sat 20th of Nov for distribution, with a possible launch at the beginning of December. Allowing for printing and delivery of 2.5-3 weeks, We would be looking at the end of October for a deadline :eek: That only gives us FIVE weeks for designing, selecting and submitting of final images - ooooohhh s**** :eek::eek:

Finally, this debate is for all, to HELP put together a project that had a magical outcome last year. I would request that those who wish to slag of the good work that people are putting their time to - free of charge, and the project itself, to voice their opinions else where, as they are not helping.

Paulw

melekalikimaka wrote: »

personally i feel ideally there should be a selection process.

I agree there.

No matter what, you can't win.

I wasn't involved last year, by choice. This year, I'm more interested.

Dakar - People can't say it won't be the same without X, Y, Z, etc because, while I certainly don't disagree that they are great photographers, there are also many many other great photographs worthy of being included.

So, yeah, maybe pay up front is a good way to find out who is genuinely interested. Payment by paypal?

trishw78

Buzz Lightyear wrote: »

As for a deadline. That time of year for which it is too early to mention , is coming around fast.

you mean 3 paydays away.

Buzz Lightyear wrote:

We ideally need to have the books out by the beginning of December at the latest. In order to allow for distribution we would be looking at imo, a meet up on Sat 20th of Nov for distribution, with a possible launch at the beginning of December. Allowing for printing and delivery of 2.5-3 weeks, We would be looking at the end of October for a deadline :eek: That only gives us FIVE weeks for designing, selecting and submitting of final images - ooooohhh s**** :eek::eek:

I was also thinking around the 31 Oct.

...as for Cracking whips... this is a family friendly forum

Buzz Lightyear

Paulw wrote: »

So, yeah, maybe pay up front is a good way to find out who is genuinely interested. Payment by paypal?

I think limiting the payment method to simply paypal would be unfair. Not everybody would have access to one. If Mele and co agreed, transfere, and draft should be acceptable as well.

chevron

Paulw wrote: »

So, yeah, maybe pay up front is a good way to find out who is genuinely interested.

Although i am not participating i still agree and think that this would be the best option in helping sort out who is genuinely interested.
Even if it doesn't answer the big question as to who goes in and who doesn't. but its a start.

.Longshanks.

I’m definitely submitting an image – just try and stop me

Regarding selection I agree that think that it should be as a far as practical be a free for all, but maybe it should be a condition that before you can submit an image you must first pay a deposit via paypal or similar?

This would help weed out the people would just stumble across the book idea in the days leading up to the closing submission date? Or maybe this might just complicate things?

Buzz Lightyear

trishw78 wrote: »

you mean 3 paydays away.

I WAS in good form until you spoke. Now its a humoungus oooooooohhhh f*********.;)

Did you have to mention THAT figure to those of us who are paid monthly as well. :eek::eek:

/takes out the calc. Counts the children ......

Paulw

Buzz Lightyear wrote: »

I think limiting the payment method to simply paypal would be unfair. Not everybody would have access to one. If Mele and co agreed, transfere, and draft should be acceptable as well.

I wasn't proposing limiting payment to just paypal, not at all. Any payment method would be fine (depending on whoever is collecting the money). Paypal just tends to be a quick and easy method, where as cheques are a lot more hassle.