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Slightly damaged packaging. what are my rights on returning product?

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  • 21-09-2009 10:29pm
    #1
    fret_wimp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 240 ✭✭


    Heres my story. I went to a well known electronics store in Dublin City two days ago to find out a bit about audio recevier's for a home cinema system.

    I told the guy my requirements, and based on those he recommended this package of recevier and speakers they had on offer this month. As i was advised it was perfect to my requirements i purchased it there.

    I brought it home and spent hours setting it up. It came with 5 speakers and a spool of cable about 25 or so meters long, which i had to cut to the correct length for each speaker.

    Once i had it all set up i found out that there was no "Audio Passthrough" on HDMI, which basically means if i want to play an xbox through it, i need extra cables.

    I was advised in the shop this was not the case.

    I rang up today and they said i could return it, but would have to pay a restocking fee as i cut up the cable and the box was slightly damaged from me opening it( small tear on one of the boxes). Restocking fee is 10% of the original price which puts the fee at 50 quid.

    As I purchased this at their ill advice they said they would let me away with the cable. The small tear in the box may be another issue.

    Im going in later on this week, and would like to know what are my rights in relation to this before i get into an arguement over it?


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    #2
    MunsterCycling
    Registered Users Posts: 4,864 ✭✭✭MunsterCycling


    Tell the Pirates of Parnell street where to go.


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    #3
    fret_wimp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 240 ✭✭fret_wimp


    I really want to give the un-named store a chance to prove to me they are worth dealing with, but just in case it doesnt work out that way, Id like to know what my rights actually are, instead of just shouting my mouth off about small claims court and the like.


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    #4
    Kensington
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,683 ✭✭✭Kensington


    If they specifically told you that the home cinema system did HDMI audio passthrough, then the product is not "as described" under the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act 1980. You'd be quite entitled to request a full refund.


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    #5
    Jev/N
    Registered Users Posts: 3,456 ✭✭✭Jev/N


    Kensington wrote: »
    If they specifically told you that the home cinema system did HDMI audio passthrough, then the product is not "as described" under the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act 1980. You'd be quite entitled to request a full refund.

    As above, it was not fit for purpose intended as you had informed the salesperson of what you wanted to use the product for


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    #6
    fret_wimp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 240 ✭✭fret_wimp


    they never mentioned passthrough, as i never asked about it. i wasnt even aware of it. when i asked about my xbox they just said it would be easy to connect to it. they failed to mention that the hdmi cable alone would not be enough to allow sound and video. technically they didnt tell a lie, they just were not fully forthcomming with the complications of hooking up my xbox.

    I guess its to be seen how they interpert the deal. Il update after i return the product.


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    #7
    Jev/N
    Registered Users Posts: 3,456 ✭✭✭Jev/N


    fret_wimp wrote: »
    they never mentioned passthrough, as i never asked about it. i wasnt even aware of it. when i asked about my xbox they just said it would be easy to connect to it. they failed to mention that the hdmi cable alone would not be enough to allow sound and video. technically they didnt tell a lie, they just were not fully forthcomming with the complications of hooking up my xbox.

    I guess its to be seen how they interpert the deal. Il update after i return the product.

    In that case I wouldn't be going with the aforementioned. You only stated it was to be used with an Xbox and not all are equipped with HDMI. You do know you can get an adapter to use HDMI and optical audio at the same time?


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    #8
    Kensington
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,683 ✭✭✭Kensington


    In that case then I don't think they (the shop) have done anything wrong.
    Is it as described (can it take in and output audio from the Xbox)? Yes.
    Is it fit for purpose (again, can it in and output audio from the Xbox)? Yes.
    It just doesn't do it the way you thought that it does, or they way in which you wanted it to do it. But it's still possible to do, which is what you asked them and what they (correctly) told you.

    As they've not broken any of the terms of the SOG&SOS act, you don't have any rights in this case I'm afraid!


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    #9
    RangeR
    Registered Users Posts: 7,265 ✭✭✭RangeR


    Kensington wrote: »
    As they've not broken any of the terms of the SOG&SOS act, you don't have any rights in this case I'm afraid!

    Agreed, your only recourse is if they want to assist you. They are not obliged to, though.


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    #10
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    fret_wimp wrote: »
    they never mentioned passthrough, as i never asked about it. i wasnt even aware of it. when i asked about my xbox they just said it would be easy to connect to it. they failed to mention that the hdmi cable alone would not be enough to allow sound and video. technically they didnt tell a lie, they just were not fully forthcomming with the complications of hooking up my xbox.

    I guess its to be seen how they interpert the deal. Il update after i return the product.
    best thing to do then is see if they will do a deal on the cable needed to attach your x-box, if the original equipment was expensive enough they might throw this in to hopefully get you to return in the future.


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    #11
    fret_wimp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 240 ✭✭fret_wimp


    I dont want to connect the xbox with two seperate cables though. the point of HDMI is all audio and video go through and are of the highest quality and in sync.

    If i connect the video to the tv and the audio to a different port on the receiver, theres a chance of sound/image sync issues as either the tv or the recevier might process signals more slowly than the other. its a compromise im not willing to accept.


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    #12
    fret_wimp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 240 ✭✭fret_wimp


    Kensington wrote: »
    In that case then I don't think they (the shop) have done anything wrong.
    Is it as described (can it take in and output audio from the Xbox)? Yes.
    Is it fit for purpose (again, can it in and output audio from the Xbox)? Yes.
    It just doesn't do it the way you thought that it does, or they way in which you wanted it to do it. But it's still possible to do, which is what you asked them and what they (correctly) told you.

    As they've not broken any of the terms of the SOG&SOS act, you don't have any rights in this case I'm afraid!

    you would think that a specialist shop, that touts itself as one of the top hi fi, electronics and home cinema specialists would have encountered this before and have the foresight to ask such questions.

    Customer: i want to connet my xbox.
    Shop: do you connect your xbox with hdmi or composite.
    User: i use hdmi.
    Shop: in this case, we recommend product a, and not product b that we just want to shift off the shelves.


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    #13
    RangeR
    Registered Users Posts: 7,265 ✭✭✭RangeR


    fret_wimp wrote: »
    I dont want to connect the xbox with two seperate cables though. the point of HDMI is all audio and video go through and are of the highest quality and in sync.
    fret_wimp wrote: »
    you would think that a specialist shop, that touts itself as one of the top hi fi, electronics and home cinema specialists would have encountered this before and have the foresight to ask such questions.

    Customer: i want to connet my xbox.
    Shop: do you connect your xbox with hdmi or composite.
    User: i use hdmi.
    Shop: in this case, we recommend product a, and not product b that we just want to shift off the shelves.


    In fairness to your OP, what you want is irrelevant, as far as the law goes [you wanted to know your rights]. All of your questions were answered 100% by the retail outlet. The fact that they didn't elaborate is also irrelevant. The employee could have been new and not fully trained therefore giving you all the information that they knew. Or they could have been on an off day [not feeling 100%] but is irrelevant too as they answered your question 100%. Or the retailer just didn't realise it was going to be a problem. It happens. People are not perfect and sometimes forget. Again, irrelevant.

    You are really out of luck on this one, as far as your rights are concerned. either stick with your purchase and get the relevant cables or take the retailer up on their VERY generous offer [they don't have to offer anything, remember].

    Chalk it up to experience. Sorry


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    #14
    fret_wimp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 240 ✭✭fret_wimp


    chalk 500 smackers up to exprience!!!! man, if you can write off half a grand just like that, kudos to you! I understand what you are saying and yes, you are correct, you did answer my question on my rights, but most people cannot write off 500 euros as an exprience.


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    #15
    jor el
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,713 ✭✭✭✭jor el


    fret_wimp wrote: »
    I told the guy my requirements

    If you told them what you wanted, and they sold you something that doesn't work as you asked them, then surely they are responsible for replacing it with something that will work. If you told them you'd be using the Xbox with a HDMI cable, then this should suffice. They now tell you that you need more cables for that to work, so why didn't they tell you that up front?

    They miss-sold the product and you should get a refund on it if it is not what you asked for.


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    #16
    RangeR
    Registered Users Posts: 7,265 ✭✭✭RangeR


    fret_wimp wrote: »
    chalk 500 smackers up to exprience!!!! man, if you can write off half a grand just like that, kudos to you! I understand what you are saying and yes, you are correct, you did answer my question on my rights, but most people cannot write off 500 euros as an exprience.
    Negatory. They offered a refund minus restocking fee. Net loss €50 not €500.

    jor el wrote: »
    They miss-sold the product and you should get a refund on it if it is not what you asked for.

    It's not often I disagree with you dude, but I think [bit not sure yet] I have to on this one. The OP [correct me if I'm wrong] never asked if the XBOX will work with an HDMI cable via HDMI passthrough but ONLY if the xbox would work with this receiver.

    I'm actually getting into an area that I don't know much about.

    Can an XBOX operate via one HDMI cable for audio and video

    As I was typing the line above, I think I've just answered my own question. The device is an audio receiver. How could it work without passthrough?

    So, to clear things up and that I can be sure, can you tell me what is needed to get your setup working [regardless of what you want or don't want - what is technically needed to get your setup working].

    You have :
    1 HDMI cable
    1 XBOX
    1 Receiver with speakers
    TV

    What else is needed to get this working? Sorry, I've never used this type of combo so am a bit ignorant in that regard.


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    #17
    Jev/N
    Registered Users Posts: 3,456 ✭✭✭Jev/N


    The OP needs the adapter for the Xbox 360 to run HDMI(video) and optical(audio) and obviously the optical cable which are dirt cheap - that's it


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    #18
    RangeR
    Registered Users Posts: 7,265 ✭✭✭RangeR


    Jev/N wrote: »
    The OP needs the adapter for the Xbox 360 to run HDMI(video) and optical(audio) and obviously the optical cable which are dirt cheap - that's it

    If that is correct, then I will stay true to form and agree with jor el :)
    You were mis sold this product. It is not fit for the purpose you specified before purchasing [you need extra hardware to make it work].


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    #19
    Jev/N
    Registered Users Posts: 3,456 ✭✭✭Jev/N


    RangeR wrote: »
    If that is correct, then I will stay true to form and agree with jor el :)
    You were mis sold this product. It is not fit for the purpose you specified before purchasing [you need extra hardware to make it work].

    Actually I think you may be correct, the only other way to route audio is via the RCA from Component which is 2.0, not 5.1. And the whole point of the purchase was to get 5.1 surround


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    #20
    sweetie
    Registered Users Posts: 9,795 ✭✭✭sweetie


    It's **** but they are within their rights, methinks.

    Pays to do your research in the future.


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    #21
    jor el
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,713 ✭✭✭✭jor el


    RangeR wrote: »
    If that is correct, then I will stay true to form and agree with jor el :)

    your momentary lack of faith will be stricken from the record.
    RangeR wrote: »
    You were mis sold this product. It is not fit for the purpose you specified before purchasing [you need extra hardware to make it work].

    I'll have to check this out when I get home, but I don't think the Xbox can have the HDMI and the RCA cables plugged in at the same time. I think the plug on the RCA covers the HDMI socket on the Xbox console, so you can have one or the other, but never both. In that case, it would not be possible to route the standard 2.0 audio separately from the HDMI video. Lends more to the argument that this kit was never suited to an Xbox, and should not have been sold for that purpose.

    A separate adapter to split the audio out from the HDMI cable would be needed, if such a thing is exists.


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    #22
    Soundman
    Registered Users Posts: 2,593 ✭✭✭Soundman


    jor el wrote: »
    your momentary lack of faith will be stricken from the record.



    I'll have to check this out when I get home, but I don't think the Xbox can have the HDMI and the RCA cables plugged in at the same time. I think the plug on the RCA covers the HDMI socket on the Xbox console, so you can have one or the other, but never both. In that case, it would not be possible to route the standard 2.0 audio separately from the HDMI video. Lends more to the argument that this kit was never suited to an Xbox, and should not have been sold for that purpose.

    A separate adapter to split the audio out from the HDMI cable would be needed, if such a thing is exists.


    You can use both HDMI and the component SD/HDTV cable at the same time. Though to do so you do need to remove the grey plastic surround of the connector block that fits in to the back of the XBox. I had to do this when I was first setting it up with my projector.


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    #23
    axer
    Registered Users Posts: 5,517 ✭✭✭axer


    sweetie wrote: »
    It's **** but they are within their rights, methinks.

    Pays to do your research in the future.
    Not necessarily.
    Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act 1980 - Section 14 wrote:
    (4) where the seller sells goods in the course of a business and the buyer, expressly or by implication, makes known to the seller any particular purpose for which the goods are being bought, there is an implied condition that the goods supplied under the contract are reasonably fit for that purpose, whether or not that is a purpose for which such goods are commonly supplied, except where the circumstances show that the buyer does not rely, or that it is unreasonable for him to rely, on the seller's skill or judgement.


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    #24
    fret_wimp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 240 ✭✭fret_wimp


    Just to close this off, I brought the receiver and speakers back today, minus the speaker cable. I asked for the manager with whom i spoke on the phone to. I didnt get him, but I got a different guy. I explained the situation again, and got my full refund!!!! Im a happy camper and would deal with this store again, but Im going to do my research in future before handing over my hard earned cash.


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    #25
    Jev/N
    Registered Users Posts: 3,456 ✭✭✭Jev/N


    fret_wimp wrote: »
    Just to close this off, I brought the receiver and speakers back today, minus the speaker cable. I asked for the manager with whom i spoke on the phone to. I didnt get him, but I got a different guy. I explained the situation again, and got my full refund!!!! Im a happy camper and would deal with this store again, but Im going to do my research in future before handing over my hard earned cash.

    Fair play man, good to see things working out for the best!


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