Was l in the wrong?

l pearse

Went for a stroll over to the Docklands to get a few shots of the new colorful buildings. (The one that looks like a giant tin of beans) Concert Hall l think, & luas tracks at Spencer Dock....

When it got dark the lights went on like a huge Xmas tree. As l snapped happily, a security Guard rolled up on his Segway and told me, no photography, because l was on Private property, we where between two buildings on a walk through. So we moved toward the road and took a few more pics from a differant angle, on the road.
He rolled out onto the road, where cars where driving up & down, & told us that the road was private property too & to stop taking photographs or he would call the guards:D So funny.... He was about 18 & on a little power trip...:cool:
l asked where the sighs where that said 'private property' But there was none.

After my better half and the mouthy Electric Sheriff past 'Words' :rolleyes: back & forth, we left...Was l in the wrong? What or who are they protecting?
First time this has happened...:p

Tallon

we've had this discusion before about Paul Blart!
He does like to give out to us photographers
I'll root up the old thread

EDIT: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055576832&highlight=ifsc

DaireQuinlan

l pearse wrote: »

Went for a stroll over to the Docklands to get a few shots of the new colorful buildings. (The one that looks like a giant tin of beans) Concert Hall l think, & luas tracks at Spencer Dock....

When it got dark the lights went on like a huge Xmas tree. As l snapped happily, a security Guard rolled up on his Segway and told me, no photography, because l was on Private property, we where between two buildings on a walk through. So we moved toward the road and took a few more pics from a differant angle, on the road.
He rolled out onto the road, where cars where driving up & down, & told us that the road was private property too & to stop taking photographs or he would call the guards:D So funny.... He was about 18 & on a little power trip...:cool:
l asked where the sighs where that said 'private property' But there was none.

After my better half and the mouthy Electric Sheriff past 'Words' :rolleyes: back & forth, we left...Was l in the wrong?

Depends on what road you were on, somewhere in this thread below (or one of the many similar ones ) there is a map of the IFSC detailing the private bits. IIRC everything inside of the road that runs down alongside the quays is private, roads included.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055576832&highlight=ifsc+private

l pearse

CabanSail wrote: »

As interesting as it is to discuss the methods of transport of the Security at the IFSC it is taking this thread off topic. Can we discuss restrictions to photography here & maybe the Segway comments could be posted in the Out Of Focus thread.

Sorry CabanSail
Missed this tread....WoW!!!!

Just remembered last Xmas l took loads of photos of the 'lightning of the tree' inside IFSC nobody stopped me that night......Confused.com

daycent

I'm just shocked about the Segway bit! Would like to have seen that!

Buzz Lightyear

No need to be confused Linda. That bugger had no right to refuse you access to take photographs. According to the DDDA .....

Cameraman wrote: »

I checked with the DDDA - as I have often taken photos there myself with no problems. This is their response :

Thank you for your email regarding taking photographs in the Docklands. If a photographer wishes to take images in the Docklands on behalf of a media organization they must apply for a license and pay a fee.

If an amateur photographer takes photos for own interest or study, this is acceptable and you should not have been stopped from doing so. The management company that controls the area for us has hired a new security company and I can only think that they have not been briefed correctly.

We encourage people such as yourself to enjoy the area and the events that we hold. I hope that you come and enjoy the Maritime Festival this weekend and get an opportunity to take some photos of the ships.

I have let the management company know what has happened to make sure this doesn’t occur again.

BTW Linda - Me likey shot no. 2 :-)

l pearse

lt was like 'Mechanical Slapstick' l got a laugh anyway...:D

Thank You Buzz..

Martron

i know where you were. looks like the price waterhouse cooper building. its a financial building. maybe security is a bit tighter around that building due to the sensitive nature of information inside the building so maybe that had something to do with it.

HarryD

A security guard on a power trip?... well I never

paulusdu

Buzz,
out of curiosity, when did the DDDA issue that mail to you ?
I remember a similar thread a good while ago and someone getting a similar response from the DDDA (maybe it was yourself). I wonder maybe have they gotten a bit more strict in the IFSC.
I know there are a few events coming up around the area, the Oktobefest, Christmas Market, etc, and i like to bring the camera down there. I've never been stopped before and can;t see any reason to stop people taking shots in the area.
Although i think i would find it hard to take someone on a two wheeler seriously :-)

leche solara

All the banker crowd down there are afraid the general public are going to kill them. They see a camera and think its a gun.
I had the same experience in the IFSC a few months ago, Segway and all!

Buzz Lightyear

paulusdu wrote: »

Buzz,
out of curiosity, when did the DDDA issue that mail to you ?

Hi Paulusdu,

They didn't. If you take a second glance at my post you'll find that I quoted Cameramans posting from that thread to clarify things.;)

mehfesto2

daycent wrote: »

I'm just shocked about the Segway bit! Would like to have seen that!

I was very hungover there early one morning and was stumbling down toward O'Connell St. when two of them were belting by on these things shouting at each other. Thought I was still drunk. It's bizzarre that they use/need them at all.

Rb

mehfesto2 wrote: »

I was very hungover there early one morning and was stumbling down toward O'Connell St. when two of them were belting by on these things shouting at each other. Thought I was still drunk. It's bizzarre that they use/need them at all.

Reduces the job requirements even further. Soon they'll have monkeys doing it

pullandbang

leche solara wrote: »

They see a camera and think its a gun.

I must take a ramble down there and show them the difference! :eek:

evolving_doors

Martron wrote: »

... maybe security is a bit tighter around that building due to the sensitive nature of information inside the building ...

Theyre all very sensitive down there in the docklands these days... I wonder how were those segue stooges briefed.. "ok guys dont let anyone take any photos tonight...especially while im shredding these expenses files on the top floor...down with that sort of thing.."

Cool photos though pearse

sineadw

Yeah, I think its all nice and friendly and fine and dandy if there's a festival or market on, but god help you if you wander in on an ordinary night.

Masada

Just keep snapping and let him call the cops. it takes them 3hrs to respond to a bar fight, imagine how enthusiastic they will be to nab a fugitive photographer.

I seem to remember this email someone received though, basically saying they dont allow photographs for commercial or profitable use. otherwise its fine.
Its likely these security guards are just flexing their muscles. Ive had it with them myself too.

democrates

The earlier suggestion of a flash mob sounds more appealing with each new case...

Victor

There are three general areas within the IFSC.

1. IFSC (Amiens Street to Commons Street) - some prohibition.
2. IFSC2 (Commons Street to Guild Street) - no apparent restrictions.
3. Spencer Dock - Central Bank has offices and there are restrictions.

I had a run in with security at Spencer Dock last week and later spoke to the manager and sent this e-mail.

Victor wrote:

Luas, bikes & Segways‏
From: Victor
Sent: 16 September 2009 13:35:15
To: .....@spencerdock.ie

Dear .....,

Thank you for your phone call. If I can address matters in no particular order:

1. I am a member of Dublin Cycling Campaign www.dublincycling.ie We have had regular correspondence with the RPA about Luas. I was taking photos of the line today, in particular there are some irregularities with traffic lights and street signs.

2. Clearway signs - these are covered by Section 40 of the Road Traffic (Traffic and Parking) Regulations, 1997. The technical definition of the sign is included in the Road Traffic (Signs) Regulations, 1997, which has the lines at a 45 degree angle. Of course, you are largely reliant on the Garda / CIÉ bye-laws to do the enforcement, although I can't see a judge objecting to the reasonable removal of vehicles. This of course is a lay opinion - I am not a lawyer. However, I must state that the location is ripe for complicated enforcement with so many parties involved and the RPA being added.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1997/en/si/0181.html
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1997/en/si/0182.html

3. Photography - as I mentioned, fitting "no photography" signs and then giving a website / webpage where people can download high quality photos should keep most people happy. Of course, people will still be able to stand on Luas or council property and take photos that you have no control over.

4. Hidden traffic lights - see attached photos. I saw a lot of vehicles failing to stop or failing to stop in time for the various new traffic lights, not just these. You might let staff and residents in Spencer Dock know to be careful - pedestrians and otherwise. I've already raise this with Fred English (087 .........) in the RPA.

5. Segway - note how the website is quite silent about using them in a public place / public road in Ireland - http://www.segway.ie/?id=46

In addition Segway are using a definition from the Finance Acts, not the Road Traffic Acts. In particular the Road Traffic Act, 1994 inserts this definition, which would include the roads around and through Spencer Dock.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1994/en/act/pub/0007/sec0049.html

Road Traffic Act, 1994

Minor and consequential amendments.

49.—(1) The Principal Act is hereby amended—
( a ) in section 3 (1)—
(iv) by the substitution for the definition of "public place" of the following definition:
"'public place' means—
( a ) any public road, and
( b ) any street, road or other place to which the public have access with vehicles whether as of right
or by permission and whether subject to or free of charge;";

"the Principal Act" means the Road Traffic Act, 1961 which also defines

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1961/en/act/pub/0024/sec0003.html

Road Traffic Act, 1961

Interpretation.

3.—(1) In this Act, save where the context otherwise requires—

"mechanically propelled vehicle" means, subject to subsection (2) of this section, a vehicle intended or adapted for propulsion by mechanical means, including—

( a ) a bicycle or tricycle with an attachment for propelling it by mechanical power, whether or not the attachment is being used,
( b ) a vehicle the means of propulsion of which is electrical or partly electrical and partly mechanical, ;

Now, of course, I could advocate that staff use bicycles, although that might be a bit difficult with some of the car park accesses. A ped-elec (an electric bicycle that only has a power-aided mode - it won't move if you don't pedal) might be an option. I'm not sure what's on the market.

6. Bicycle parking - while talking to the gentleman in the concierge, he suggested I prop my bicycle up against the window, in the absence of somewhere proper to leave it. Now I realise that the development is architecturally run on "clean lines". However, I think there is a potential to add some designated cycle parking for visitors (I presume staff and resident cycle parking is hidden away somewhere). I'll have a look at some brochures and see what I can recommend.

Victor

democrates

Fair play Victor, your inspiring endeavour is far more likely than my sulphurous reaction to get a positive result for the common good.

Victor

democrates wrote: »

Fair play Victor, your inspiring endeavour is far more likely than my sulphurous reaction to get a positive result for the common good.

Don't worry, my own reaction to Segwayman™ hardly covered me in glory.

dazftw

l pearse wrote: »

Happened to me in tescos before the security guard was full on conviced I was "taping people on my video camera" I had the bronica at the time trying something I saw online..

I probably was fullly in the wrong here but I had to wind the chap, up he was so rude about the whole situation for no reason

Security Guard:You cant be taping people in here
Me:Im not this is a picture camera
Security Guard:Well you cant be taking pictures of people in here
Me:Im not..?
Security Guard: You are I saw you
Me:I was taking pictures of my friends..?
Security Guard:Your not allowed to do that
Me:Im not allowed to take pictures of my friends?
Security Guard:Your not allowed to take pictures of anyone in here
Me:Yeah I know the law, I cant take pictures of random strangers in private areas(i wasn't sure if this was 100% right)
Security Guard:Just stop taking pictures
Me:Im not look... im at the counter here buying my cookies and milk and then were going!
Security Guard: ok

He walks off

democrates

Well that's up there with "Who's on first"

Ricky91t

pullandbang wrote: »

I must take a ramble down there and show them the difference! :eek:

Why shoot the ground though?I thought you were meant to shoot the "clay pigeons"?

Or whatever it is..:pac:


i know he's reloading the gun or something

Chorcai

sineadw wrote: »

Yeah, I think its all nice and friendly and fine and dandy if there's a festival or market on, but god help you if you wander in on an ordinary night.

I feel a meeting is in order all the boards memebers head down there some evening and snap away ? how about some portable flash stuff like brollys, light stands to really freak em out ! Across the road of course :rolleyes:

pullandbang

Ricky91t wrote: »

Why shoot the ground though?I thought you were meant to shoot the "clay pigeons"?

Or whatever it is..:pac:


i know he's reloading the gun or something

Well you see, by law when we're deomonstrating the difference between a canon and a gun we must fire a warning shot into the ground first. The only problem with that is when someone mixes up their canons:eek:

Anouilh

It is worth studying how urban fortifications are made and defended:

http://www.questia.com/library/sociology-and-anthropology/neighborhoods.jsp

Roll on the loose can(n)ons?

kingbrumak

I have to admit, as childish as it may seem, 20+ photographer descending on the IFSC would be funny

I think we should organise it!

Novella

I live down there and was taking some photographs one night. I was actually just heading out but thought the lights looked pretty cool so stopped to take a few pictures.

The security guard told me I was "trespassing" so I told him I live in the apartments and he just walked off. Try that next time!

Anouilh

I hope that governments are building in systems to deal with the stress that this sort of sillyness is causing all round. This is "Clockwork Orange" territory, with a sort of mental warfare that takes away from the fact that people like to be comfortable in public spaces and will avoid places where they feel threatened.

I have decided to just take photos and not go to places where there is an "atmosphere". I got some very good night shots on the streets in Dundrum village recently. There are plenty of good neon signs and the Luas bridge, with train lights, makes a good subject.

Let's just keep going...

gandalf

kingbrumak wrote: »

I have to admit, as childish as it may seem, 20+ photographer descending on the IFSC would be funny

I think we should organise it!

I think that would be an excellent idea. Maybe split into different groups so he runs down the battery on his Segway

Chorcai

gandalf wrote: »

I think that would be an excellent idea. Maybe split into different groups so he runs down the battery on his Segway

lol

RustyNut

gandalf wrote: »

I think that would be an excellent idea. Maybe split into different groups so he runs down the battery on his Segway

+1 Flash mob FTW

Victor

The trick will be to put 20+ people on a tram and a stooge outside andjust as the tram is passing, have the stooge point them out to security.