Does a fixed term lease have to be be written/signed to be valid?

derek2901

I have just left a place I was renting for 20 months. I had got a rent reduction and was paying a new lower rent from December last year. As part of the agreement the landlord said there would be a new lease running from 12 months from then- he wrote to me about this and setting it out more than once. I never signed the lease and never sent it back to him- he never came looking. I looked for another reduction- I was still paying too much. He refused and I left after 28 days verbal notice. He now refuses to give me my deposit back and wants me to pay for the four moths I left early. Even though I did not sign a lease he said it is an "implied" lease under the Tenancy Act (2004?). Can I get my deposit back?? should I try me luck with the Board?

D3PO

well if you were there 20 months you owe 42 days notice so he has every right to keep 14 days rent from your deposit anyway


you only gave verbal notice so if the lease agreement doesnt stand up as its verbal neither does the verbal notice.

so for me you dont have a case besides which you have a moral obligation anyway if you agreed verbally.

if i was him you wouldnt be getting a cent

derek2901

i do feel bad about it but i need the money...so do i have a chancew even on a technicality?

D3PO

derek2901 wrote: »

i do feel bad about it but i need the money...so do i have a chancew even on a technicality?

no there is no technicality here. He is right to keep the deposit.

ZYX

D3PO wrote: »

no there is no technicality here. He is right to keep the deposit.

Purely in D3POs opinion. Get legal advice derek2901. A quick chat with a solicitor would be better than advice here.

D3PO

ZYX wrote: »

Purely in D3POs opinion. Get legal advice derek2901. A quick chat with a solicitor would be better than advice here.

Lets talk fact here for a minute rather than opinion.

You cannot argue legally that on one had that a verbal agreement isnt binding, then on the other hand legally defend giving verbal notice.

Besides which its 42 days notice he owed by law. So that 14 days is done with. The other 16 - 17 days rent is that going to cover you to get a solicitor, pay for a prtb dispute and pay to go to small claims court ?

I very much doubt it.

gurramok

Nothing is in writing since day 1, unless we assume the landlord never got a deposit which is absurd.

The LL has no come back on this either, both parties are verbal. The poster has every right to get the deposit back minus the 14days.

Get onto PRTB and Threshold.

D3PO

gurramok wrote: »

Nothing is in writing since day 1,.

thats not how i read it. I read it as a lease was signed but the renewal lease was never signed.

OP can you clarify if you signed a lease originally on moving in.

derek2901

Yeah I sgned a lease in September 2007. This ran out and I got a rent reduction in December 2008 on condition that I agreed to a new 12 month lease. I agreed verbally but never returned the signed lease.

gurramok

So no new lease signed.

As part of the agreement the landlord said there would be a new lease running from 12 months from then- he wrote to me about this and setting it out more than once. I never signed the lease and never sent it back to him- he never came looking.

Did he actually send a new lease to you?

The way I see it, nothing signed on new lease and you are owed your deposit back. The landlord hasn't got a leg to stand on to hold back your deposit as no new contract was signed and there is a a legal contract(original lease) in which you were entitled to your deposit back.

Victor

Theres a lot of fuzziness there. You need to get proper advice.

www.threshold.ie www.prtb.ie or your solicitor.

GerardKeating

derek2901 wrote: »

Yeah I sgned a lease in September 2007. This ran out and I got a rent reduction in December 2008 on condition that I agreed to a new 12 month lease. I agreed verbally but never returned the signed lease.

So the Landlord gave you a rent reduction in return for signing the 12 month lease, but you did not return it.

One might argue that since you did not sign the new lease, you were not entitled to the rent reduction and own the differnce in the rent since the reduction.

Going Legal on this might not be in your best interest, you might end up owning your former landloard more than the deposit you are seeking back.

GerardKeating

gurramok wrote: »

The way I see it, nothing signed on new lease and you are owed your deposit back. The landlord hasn't got a leg to stand on to hold back your deposit as no new contract was signed and there is a a legal contract(original lease) in which you were entitled to your deposit back.

But if the new lease has no effect, does the same apply to the rent reduction which was in the new lease, if the old lease is still in force, the rent was higher and the OP ows 9 months of rent difference to the landlord...

gurramok

Rent reductions can be verbal as they can also be reduced during a lease as well as renewal(which didnt happen in this case as nothing was signed). How can the old lease be still in force when it is up after year 1 with no successor?

What i see is a verbal agreement after yr 1. The LL should of chased for the signing of that new lease(if there was one sent) in order to protect himself with guaranteed rent for yr 2.

Victor

Oh, Statute of Frauds probably means you need written evidence of the lease, although the Residential Tenancies Act may have kicked in after the first year.

astrofool

It would also have reverted to a part 4 tenancy, which requires the notice to be given in writing, so technically you have not given notice yet, and the landlord could chase you for current rent.

In all likelihood, if it went to the prtb/court your chances of getting the deposit back are slim, but by all means, get legal advice rather than listen to internet advice (if you want to pay for it/get it for free via prtb/threshold).

derek2901

Called threshold today and they told me that I do have an implied lease as evidenced by the rent reduction. they also so because I only gave verbal notice that I would owe 42 days rent....advised me to leave it alone re the deposit.

gurramok

At least your out of it. Must remember that about the rent reduction implications. If you didn't get one after yr 1, it would be interesting to know what they would have advised.

Think renters should bookmark this thread!!