Permission for ash dump sought

SeaSide

From the Irish Times

Permission for ash dump sought


An application has been lodged for a dump for toxic ash in north Dublin.



Management firm Murphy Environmental Hollywood (MEHL) has applied for a rapid planning assessment under strategic infrastructure rules. More than 60 jobs could be created if the north Dublin facility gets permission to treat hazardous material from the country’s two incinerators.

Developers say the dump at MEHL’s landfill in Hollywood near the Naul will be able to take in toxic ash from the Indaver incinerator being built in Duleek, Co Meath and the planned Dublin Waste to Energy plant in Poolbeg.

Patricia Rooney, MEHL general manager, said exporting hazardous waste was expensive and runs against EU rules.

“Ireland currently has no suitably operated, future proofed facility to treat hazardous and ash waste,” she said. “These downsides will deepen further within the next few years when new incinerators commence operations.”

MEHL said the development could create more than 50 construction jobs and take 12 months to complete and employ another 10 people once up and running.

The firm said all waste treated at the facility will be non-biodegradable, it will not accept food waste and have no odours, no methane, no vermin and no impact on greenhouse gases. MEHL plans to treat the ash and bury it in sealed containers.

Incinerators can create ash with heavy metals, unburned chemicals and new chemicals formed during the burning process.

Environment John Gormley earlier this week to ban the export of hazardous ash material produced from waste incineration process in Ireland.

With the quantity of ash produced likely to reach 250,000 tonnes over the next few years, if all current incinerator plans are implemented, the IWMA said its export would also amount to the loss of a commodity worth more than €20 million per annum.

Ireland currently lacks a national framework for dealing with this new waste product. We “trail Europe in our ability to manage incinerator ash”.

The IWMA also stated that exporting ash would be wrong both environmentally and economically.

Eoineo

With very close family in the direct area and our children spending a lot of time in Naul area I will be submitting my objection asap.

North County Dublin = the dumping ground for Dublin City. :mad: I'm not having it - it's not a case of NIMBY, I recognise it has to go somewhere. There has to be something wrong though if projects of this nature aren't going anywhere else in the county.

This is the last thing we need. Imagine how the residents will feel stuck between a superdump and an ash dump.

bcmf

gotta agree with Eoineo but (and I know a few people who work in Murphy's) but it is looking like NCD is becoming one large dumping ground.
Alan Farrell any opinions?

Fingalian

Fingal CoCo won’t be happy until the whole of NCD is paved and full of housing estates (easy to service and manage) and full of revenue producing superdumps….follow the money, People! They are anti-rural and rural people and the rural way of life is just anathema and a hindrance to their urban expansionist plans. Same with the politicians , ( with the exception of a couple of Independents) you won’t see any of them getting involved with these issues except for superficial ‘sound bites’, as the big voting blocks are in the towns. Do you really think the politicians who represent Swords and Malahide give a hoot about the rural hinterland of NCD? God bless your naïveté. Good luck with planning objections too; here is how this will pan out. Bord Pleanala might decide to have a hearing, the well meaning, earnest but under funded objectors, having to take time off from work to attend these hearings will then sit twiddling their thumbs while the senior barristers, juniors and assorted lackeys representing Fingal CoCo and relevant corporate interests will obfuscate and engage in possibly days and days of sophistry. All funded by the way with your Bin euros, Development Levies, etc. It will just be an exercise in lip service ‘being seen to do the right thing and follow procedures’ .That is just the way it is, democracy in action, Fingal style.

Fingleberries

Any reference number for the planning application, so we can see the exact details and object as appopriate?

Eoineo

I can't find reference to it on the FingalCoCo website but I suspect that's because Murphy Environmental submitted the application this week along with a press release. That means that it wouldn't be published on the website with a reference before the middle of next week.

Hopefully someone will get the reference directly from Fingal shortly and I will post back here when I have it.

Alan Farrell

bcmf wrote: »

gotta agree with Eoineo but (and I know a few people who work in Murphy's) but it is looking like NCD is becoming one large dumping ground.
Alan Farrell any opinions?

Your best bet is to object to the application but I have to agree with other posters, our area is becoming a dumping ground for Dublin City which is neither fair nor equitable.

We already have (supposedly) a super dump so I think this application must be resisted.

Alan Farrell

Fingalian wrote: »

Fingal CoCo won’t be happy until the whole of NCD is paved and full of housing estates (easy to service and manage) and full of revenue producing superdumps….follow the money, People! They are anti-rural and rural people and the rural way of life is just anathema and a hindrance to their urban expansionist plans. Same with the politicians , ( with the exception of a couple of Independents) you won’t see any of them getting involved with these issues except for superficial ‘sound bites’, as the big voting blocks are in the towns. Do you really think the politicians who represent Swords and Malahide give a hoot about the rural hinterland of NCD? God bless your naïveté. Good luck with planning objections too; here is how this will pan out. Bord Pleanala might decide to have a hearing, the well meaning, earnest but under funded objectors, having to take time off from work to attend these hearings will then sit twiddling their thumbs while the senior barristers, juniors and assorted lackeys representing Fingal CoCo and relevant corporate interests will obfuscate and engage in possibly days and days of sophistry. All funded by the way with your Bin euros, Development Levies, etc. It will just be an exercise in lip service ‘being seen to do the right thing and follow procedures’ .That is just the way it is, democracy in action, Fingal style.

This has nothing to do with Fingal County Council.

Politicians have no greater control over planning permissions than members of the public.

Murphy's money is being spent on the application, not tax payers money.

LeoB

We have had the dump at Rogerstown, Balalley for years and god only knows what damage it has done. Currently the Estuary at Rogerstown is a hive of activity with people picking whinkles and people (some local) fishing no more than 300 mtrs from dump. So when the s**t hits the fan who is Joe public to believe about the damage it does or does not do?

I would be against the dump. North Dublin has been given enough to contend with over the past few years.

However I have 2 Questions
1) Can we believe the E.P.A? They will most likely have a big say in this process.
2) What are we to do with our rubbish? What is the alternative?

Wont be able to reply for few days. (Off to London in Morning)

focus_mad

The World Health Organisation has stated that modern incinerators operating to exact standards and running with state of the art technology pose no threat to human health, thus the inert ash which is a result of this incineration is fairly safe. Safe enough that it is currently used in road construction. So if this "toxic" ash facility is properly waste managed then there should be no problem.

Also the E.P.A have been set up to properly manage any risks to our Environment and to catch and punish fly tippers for one example so for some people to suggest they may be "pulling the wool over peoples eyes" is of course their own opinion, it may not be the right approach.


Also it may sound picky but what about the jobs it will create?

Alan Farrell

focus_mad wrote: »

The World Health Organisation has stated that modern incinerators operating to exact standards and running with state of the art technology pose no threat to human health, thus the inert ash which is a result of this incineration is fairly safe. Safe enough that it is currently used in road construction. So if this "toxic" ash facility is properly waste managed then there should be no problem.

Also the E.P.A have been set up to properly manage any risks to our Environment and to catch and punish fly tippers for one example so for some people to suggest they may be "pulling the wool over peoples eyes" is of course their own opinion, it may not be the right approach.

Also it may sound picky but what about the jobs it will create?

I personally don't dispute the WHO's findings and in fact I have no difficulty with incinerators on principal.

I do however have a difficulty with an enormous amount of heavy trucks which will plague the north county when the super dump opens in the Nevitt (assuming it opens) and further vehicle movements brought on by the Murphy project.

The reason I plan to object to this application is because I believe the north county has enough infrastructure of this type already.

bcmf

over the weekend I spoke to a person who is very close to the firing line on this in Murphy's.
I picked their brains and this is basically the reply I got.
Firstly the waste is not Toxic. Parts of the waste would certainly not be biodegradable but certainly isnt toxic. The person in question did a fact finding mission, which is only to be expected, to Europe where it is currently being operated and told me that they held the ash/waste in their hand and is still alive and healthy (well up to the weekend anyway ).
I know this person well and believe them.
However I will still object on the grounds of the area has enough in the way of dumps.

SeaSide

It also points to a failure in the planning process that permission for an incinerator can be given with no thought as to

1. Where the waste will be coming from (I understand the Dublin City Council is going to find it difficult to produce enough waste to feed Poolbeg)
2. Where the by-product will be going

Bluetonic

Alan Farrell wrote: »

The reason I plan to object to this application is because I believe the north county has enough infrastructure of this type already.

Apart from Balleally dump (which is now closed) and the proposed Nevitt dump, what other types of 'this' infrastructure does North County Dublin have and how do you measure 'enough'?

SeaSide

Super prison
Super Sewage Treatment Plant

Bluetonic

Lots of proposals, none have been delivered yet.

Do you think all the proposals (and you can add Bremore Port) will be delivered?

SeaSide

Over the next five years probably not. Over the next five to fifteen years definitely.

bcmf

Bluetonic wrote: »

Apart from Balleally dump (which is now closed) and the proposed Nevitt dump, what other types of 'this' infrastructure does North County Dublin have and how do you measure 'enough'?

Is one dump (Ballealy) not enough (either open or closed).

Bluetonic

bcmf wrote: »

Is one dump (Ballealy) not enough (either open or closed).

I'm not too sure how you'd go about quantifying it to be honest. If North County Dublin still producing refuse which needs to go to landfill then North County Dublin needs a dump. Whether or not we take refuse from other areas is another question.

focus_mad

Alan Farrell wrote: »

I personally don't dispute the WHO's findings and in fact I have no difficulty with incinerators on principal.

I do however have a difficulty with an enormous amount of heavy trucks which will plague the north county when the super dump opens in the Nevitt (assuming it opens) and further vehicle movements brought on by the Murphy project.

The reason I plan to object to this application is because I believe the north county has enough infrastructure of this type already.

Yeah I can understand where your coming from in regards to the lorrys. Jus on a side, the super dump is awaiting a response after submitting its Environmental Impact Statement (EIS)

There is another dump proposed in Kill, Co. Kildare in the Dublin Waste Management Plan for the Dublin Region but I think it will mostly be used by the DLRCOCO and the South Dublin Co Co.

A dump out near Blanchardstown (if there was a suitable location) would be ideal because then Fingal, Dublin Corpo and South Dublin could use it.

(I only know this because I'v had to study it the past month as a Building Surveyor!!:D)

over the weekend I spoke to a person who is very close to the firing line on this in Murphy's.
I picked their brains and this is basically the reply I got.
Firstly the waste is not Toxic. Parts of the waste would certainly not be biodegradable but certainly isnt toxic. The person in question did a fact finding mission, which is only to be expected, to Europe where it is currently being operated and told me that they held the ash/waste in their hand and is still alive and healthy (well up to the weekend anyway ).
I know this person well and believe them.
However I will still object on the grounds of the area has enough in the way of dumps.

Yup, the ash is actually used for road construction.

focus_mad

SeaSide wrote: »

It also points to a failure in the planning process that permission for an incinerator can be given with no thought as to

1. Where the waste will be coming from (I understand the Dublin City Council is going to find it difficult to produce enough waste to feed Poolbeg)
2. Where the by-product will be going

The waste will be coming from Poolbeg, as it will have the capacity for generating electricity for 50,000+ homes and hot water heating for another 50,000+ so I'd say most will rubbish that is unable to be recycled to be sent there.

the second point would be covered under a granting of planning permission with conditions, being that the plant will have to design a waste management plan that by law must be fully accurate.

focus_mad

Bluetonic wrote: »

I'm not too sure how you'd go about quantifying it to be honest. If North County Dublin still producing refuse which needs to go to landfill then North County Dublin needs a dump. Whether or not we take refuse from other areas is another question.

Ballely will close at the latest in 2011 and with the Regional Waste Management Plan for the Dublin region stating that only 16% of waste should finally end in a landfill, an incinerator may not be a bad choice and there shouldn't be as bad a dump as Ballely.

http://dublinwaste.ie/replacement_draft_plan.html