Filling in my applications, little bit of advice needed please

johngalway

Doing my application(s) tonight lads and they're wrecking my head. So got a few questions for ye, forgive me if they're repeaters I just want done with forms after this week.

I had intended to do a search but I can't find the Search function (seriously) on my page? Never had a problem searching before, I'm baffled.

(1.) I'm changing my .22lr to a .17HMR, is this a substitution or a new application? I think it's a substitution.

(2.) Does section 2.4 need declaration of minor traffic offense? Turned right where I should not have, 1 point plus €60 fine, not contested.

(3.) Do I need to put anything with section 3.2 if I tick the silencer boxes? I intend getting a SAK for the HMR and an as yet undecided mod for the .223. I've not included any reason why I want them - hearing damage already suffered plus don't want to spook quarry animals or other animals, and wish to avoid any possible noise pollution.

(4.) In section 4.2 I'm rather lost.

(a) I intend to use my now 3 shot semi auto 12ga to shoot game birds, ground game such as rabbits and hares (maybe) and also use it for local clay shooting. Which boxes do I need to tick?

(b) I will use my new .17HMR, if granted, for rabbit shooting, I presume I tick Hunting?

(c) I will use my .223 for shooting foxes so again I'm presuming hunting?

(5.) In section 5.1, remembering the reasons for use I've given above, am I ticking Yes or No and what license if any do I need?

Please follow the KISS theory when answering if possible, I'm confuddled enough as it is.

Again I'll offer my apologies if we're covering old ground.

Thanks in advance,

John

Cass

1) Different calibre therefore a substitution.

2) No. Traffic offenses with fixed fines and NO convictions do not require you to fill it in.

3) I ticked the silencer box and provided NO reason. My FO rang me the other night to inform me he was inputting my details and did not ask for a reason.

4) Tick the box you will use the gun the most for. If its hunting tick hunting but you must explain on a seperate sheet why you want it. A simple one or two line explanation will do i.e. " i require the firearm for the purpose of vermin control", " i require the firearm for the purpose of deer stalking". Thats all.

5) Tick Yes if you intend to hunt pheasants, duck and any other animals that may only be hunted during season, (with the firearm the application pertains to). These do not require a licence to hunt therefore none need be produced. Deer, however do need a licence to hunt, so attach a copy of your deer licence (again if applicable) and you're set. Tick no if you do not intend to use the firearm you are applying for, for this reason.

Cass

John, and any other lads, in section 3.5 when you tick the firearm (secure accommodation) order, 2009 box make sure you include details of your security set-up on the sheet with your other extra information. They will want it.

johngalway

Thanks very much Ezridax

On my 12g semi, it'll mostly be used for hunting. I am wondering will that cover clay shooting also? I vaguely remember reading it came unde rtarget shooting or something silly like that, I may just tick Hunting & Other and specify on my reasons sheet.

Thanks for the heads up on the safe

So I'll have my reasons sheet, and security sheet. Do I need other extras?

jwshooter

johngalway wrote: »

Doing my application(s) tonight lads and they're wrecking my head. So got a few questions for ye, forgive me if they're repeaters I just want done with forms after this week.

I had intended to do a search but I can't find the Search function (seriously) on my page? Never had a problem searching before, I'm baffled.

(1.) I'm changing my .22lr to a .17HMR, is this a substitution or a new application? I think it's a substitution.

(2.) Does section 2.4 need declaration of minor traffic offense? Turned right where I should not have, 1 point plus €60 fine, not contested.

(3.) Do I need to put anything with section 3.2 if I tick the silencer boxes? I intend getting a SAK for the HMR and an as yet undecided mod for the .223. I've not included any reason why I want them - hearing damage already suffered plus don't want to spook quarry animals or other animals, and wish to avoid any possible noise pollution.

(4.) In section 4.2 I'm rather lost.

(a) I intend to use my now 3 shot semi auto 12ga to shoot game birds, ground game such as rabbits and hares (maybe) and also use it for local clay shooting. Which boxes do I need to tick?

(b) I will use my new .17HMR, if granted, for rabbit shooting, I presume I tick Hunting?

(c) I will use my .223 for shooting foxes so again I'm presuming hunting?

(5.) In section 5.1, remembering the reasons for use I've given above, am I ticking Yes or No and what license if any do I need?

Please follow the KISS theory when answering if possible, I'm confuddled enough as it is.

Again I'll offer my apologies if we're covering old ground.

Thanks in advance,

John

you are a farmer ? if so you have a right under EU law to use what ever means available to protect your hearing .no super/law in the country can supersede this.

johngalway

jwshooter wrote: »

you are a farmer ? if so you have a right under EU law to use what ever means available to protect your hearing .no super/law in the country can supersede this.

I am, for whatever sins I committed in a past life (hope I enjoyed them greatly ). Would that count JW, being self employed, rather than say a Ranger who'd be employed.

Cass

No bother John. Just because you mark on your application that you intend to use the firearm for X activity does not mean you cannot use it for Y or Z activity. The reason you provide is the primary reason for having/wanting the firearm not the ONLY reason.

The following would be extra information needed but only if applicable.

Section 2.1 - Change of address.

Section 3.2 - Accessories. You can give a reason for a moderator but its not mandatory. Sights as i found out relate to laser sights etc. Out of the norm type sight. Scopes do not need to be explained but i did. Again its not mandatory.

Section 3.3 - Source of firearm. Extra details if you didn't own the firearm in the previous 3 years and if you inherited/won it. Not if you bought it from dealer. Thats what the dealers details section is for. (3.3)

Section 3.5 - Secure accommodation. Give details of your security set-up.

Section 4.2 - Reason its required. As explained in previous post; " i require the firearm for the purpose of vermin control", " i require the firearm for the purpose of deer stalking", " i require the firearm for the purpose of sports target shooting" etc, etc.

Section 5.1 - Wildlife requirement act. Any hunting licences you hold and use in relation to the firearm you are seeking.

Section 5.2 - Farm/Land details. Gun club membership or lands you shoot on (if you are not a member of a gun club)

jwshooter

johngalway wrote: »

I am, for whatever sins I committed in a past life (hope I enjoyed them greatly ). Would that count JW, being self employed, rather than say a Ranger who'd be employed.

yes, you are getting a income from it a firearm is a tool to do this job .

peter jackons rifles has a copy of it im sure. the nargc ,ifa should tell its members this.

woodcock 52

In relation to No.1 it is a new application for the .17 on form FCA1 and form FCA2 will be filled in by your or firearms officer to cancel certificate for old .22 rifle. It cannot be a substitution when you don't have a three year licence yet, as all these current applications are being treated as new applications. Can only use substituton when have three year licence.:)

Cass

woodcock 52 wrote: »

In relation to No.1 it is a new application for the .17 on form FCA1 and form FCA2 will be filled in by your or firearms officer to cancel certificate for old .22 rifle.....

Correct

......It cannot be a substitution when you don't have a three year licence yet, as all these current applications are being treated as new applications. Can only use substituton when have three year licence

Also correct but only substitute like for like. There was another thread on the subject of like for like, but it was and still is like calibre for like calibre. Even if he had a three year licence he would not be able to subtitute a .22lr for a .17hmr as they are different calibres.

Sparks

jwshooter wrote: »

you are a farmer ? if so you have a right under EU law to use what ever means available to protect your hearing .no super/law in the country can supersede this.

It's not a right; it has been superseded; and EU firearms law is very specific in deferring to member state firearms law.

That's not to say your super won't grant you a moderator permit. It's just that he isn't bound by law to do so and the last person to go into a Super demanding things he thought he had a right to when there was no such right, brought the Justice Charleton ruling down on our heads, and if you wouldn't mind jw, I'd rather not see a second one of those in the next twenty or so years?

jwshooter

its writen in as a UE directave on noise in the work place .

john has aright to use a mod on his firearm the same as a ranger ,professional deer manager,gamekeeper.

Terrier

The addition of a Moderater\Silcencer on the .17 or .223 will that make it a restricted firearm?

Guidlines - The S.I, as amended, further defines all silencers, except ‘those capable of being used only with long rifled firearms’, to be restricted firearms

Also in regards to applying for a moderater for a rifle you intend using for foxes the guidlines seem to go against that.

Guidlines - Silencers are designed to reduce the report of the firearm so as to conceal the position of the shooter, and also to reduce the felt recoil. Silencers have traditionally been used on rimfire rifles of .22 calibres when shooting rabbits. This allows the shooter to kill other animals who are not alarmed by the low report of the rifle. This justification may not apply in the case of the shooting of other less numerous and less sociable animals such as foxes.

Sparks

jwshooter wrote: »

its writen in as a UE directave on noise in the work place .
john has aright to use a mod on his firearm the same as a ranger ,professional deer manager,gamekeeper.

John no more has a right than a ranger, professional deer manager or gamekeeper.
Look JW, I'm not saying they shouldn't have them. Far as I'm concerned, they shouldn't be defined as firearms, they should be over-the-counter items like stocks and scopes, and the rules around them are based on watching too many hollywood movies and those rules are hurting people. But that's my personal opinion, not the law, and the law has already been demonstrated in the past by Super's decisions and court cases. Noone in Ireland has a right to own a firearm - and so long as a moderator is defined in law as a firearm, noone in Ireland has a right to own one.

Going into a super's office claiming a non-existant right is a bad idea from start to finish, and as in Donegal, it's a bad idea that dumps all over the rest of us.

Terrier wrote: »

The addition of a Moderater\Silcencer on the .17 or .223 will that make it a restricted firearm?

No. Not any more. The restricted list was amended recently to change that.

Also in regards to applying for a moderater for a rifle you intend using for foxes the guidlines seem to go against that.

Guidelines are guidelines. Not the law. So the decision is your Superintendents, not the Commissioner's.
(And then the District Court Judge's if you choose to appeal it).

johngalway

The moderator issue isn't foremost in my mind, I'm just applying now to save doing so again. I think I'll stick in a bit about my hearing damage and the other reasons and see what they make of it. I don't know how much foxing the Commissioner has done but I've often seen many in one field together, most was six one night in the same field at the same time. I've a number of permissions which offer extremely safe shots on foxes (towards the hill) but have houses nearby (shooting away from them), by God you should hear that rumble echoing off.

I'll go with the new application approach for the .17HMR. Local Garda did ring up and find that out before, to be honest I'm never 100% sure when they're interpreting laws, going by them, or making them up, so no harm in checking it out before I put my name to anything.

I think I'm sorted on the other sections now too

Talking to an older neighbour today he was in at the main station lately and was told they had no forms yet and to be honest didn't know what to do yet. That situation will hopefully have changed by the time I catch up with the local cop (Wild goose chase anyone?).

Thanks for all the help guys

Cass

johngalway wrote: »

The moderator issue isn't foremost in my mind, I'm just applying now to save doing so again.........

You're better off. If you get the licence now and apply for the moderator later, it'll cost you another €80 for a new licence just to add the moderator onto it.

johngalway

Well I've put in the forms this morning. The Garda reckoned I should be sent out to the main station to give a talk as to be honest they'd not been briefed on the new system yet :eek: He reckoned the entire thing will be a nightmare.

So much for get your forms in three months before expiry, eh.

Sincerely,

Mr. A. Guinea Pig.

Cass

Here we go again. ANOTHER phone call for MORE information that was not requested on the FCA1 but will be necessary to process the application. Its not the FOs fault but 2 weeks ago was asked for a list of security details and told that my information was bring inputted on PULSE. Now i'm told that my membership number on the FCA1 is not enough and they will need a print out of the card. Took a photo, downloaded to laptop and attached to e-mail and sent it. Rang to confirm receipt and asked is that everything (fingers crossed). Was told yes for sure but here is the kicker, i gave my club Pulse ID with applications and am being told now that the applicaions will not be processed or inputted until the club receives its registration number. Was told by club chairman registration numbers will not be issued until next year at the earliest. He then told me that no matter which way it goes i will almost definitely NOT have my licences by the end of the 31st October (deadline for extension).

Lads i can't stress enough, if you think something on the form needs more explanation whether its asked for or not please, PLEASE, supply it or face the possibility of endless phone calls asking for more and more information.

PJ Hunter

where do you put vermin rifle details on the application.

Cass

Section 4.2 - tick the "other" box. On a seperate sheet of paper explain why you want the calibre rifle you are seeking, i.e. the purpose. In your case for the purpose of vermin control. There is no actual area on the FCA1 for the explanation. Its a seperate sheet. A4, hand written or printed.

johngalway

Eh? Should I not have ticked Other then for rabbits for the HMR and foxes for the .223, as I ticked Hunting for both?

Cass

The reason i would suggest ticking "other" is if you tick hunting you must supply valid and in-date hunting licences. As there are no hunting licences or seasons for vermin you cannot provide them. Could be in the wrong, but its what i would do.

Terrier

Selected Hunting for all my firearm, on a seperate sheet I explained what each one was for.
Double Barrell - Hunting Game
Semi-Auto - Hunting Vermin
.22lr - Hunting - (rabbits in particular/silcencer also requested)
.223 - Hunting Vermin (foxes in pacticular/supressor also requested)

Also gave reasoning around requiring a supressor for both rifles.
Also gave detailed description of my home security.
Also a photocopy of my current Gun Club membership card.

Cass

Either would suffice Terrier. I'm assuming (again) that the Gardai know what does and does not require a hunting licence. Another example of how crystal clear the FCA1 is .

I wouldn't worry about it too much as no matter which box you tick it still requires an explanation on a seperate sheet of paper so you have the ability to explain it regardless.

johngalway

That's sound so, as I also included an explanation sheet outlining reasons for moderator, details of security and why I need the particular firearm.

Mac Tire

johngalway wrote: »

That's sound so, as I also included an explanation sheet outlining reasons for moderator, details of security and why I need the particular firearm.

i had a couple of letters done up to that effect too, however my FO said that the Super didn't wnat to see them for ''renewals'' only for ''new'' applications, same goes for the ''proof of competance''

johngalway

Mac Tire wrote: »

i had a couple of letters done up to that effect too, however my FO said that the Super didn't wnat to see them for ''renewals'' only for ''new'' applications, same goes for the ''proof of competance''

I don't know if our fella wants to see them or not, local Garda I handed them in to stood back "Jeeeesus we won't be seeing many of these, and printed'n'all". Anyway, they're clipped to my application so if he wants them they're there to see

foxshooter243

johngalway wrote: »

I don't know if our fella wants to see them or not, local Garda I handed them in to stood back "Jeeeesus we won't be seeing many of these, and printed'n'all". Anyway, they're clipped to my application so if he wants them they're there to see

same as that john, i stapled all the information that they could think to ask me about any of my guns such as reason why i need it, competency in its use , storage of same, club memeberships/ deer cert/ courses passed or completed { rifle course/ nargc proficiency course} i even gave them a photocopy of my cycling proficiency cert /parachuting course log books/leaving cert you name it they got it:D:D

PJ Hunter

foxshooter243 wrote: »

same as that john, i stapled all the information that they could think to ask me about any of my guns such as reason why i need it, competency in its use , storage of same, club memeberships/ deer cert/ courses passed or completed { rifle course/ nargc proficiency course} i even gave them a photocopy of my cycling proficiency cert /parachuting course log books/leaving cert you name it they got it:D:D

any phone call asking the mrs, how much does he drink, got any of them receipts

Tom Donnavan

Are any of you filling out the character referees? Surley relicensing my currently licensed firearm is less of a deal than substituting it with a similar firearm?

johngalway

Tom Donnavan wrote: »

Are any of you filling out the character referees? Surley relicensing my currently licensed firearm is less of a deal than substituting it with a similar firearm?

I put my dad and a builder I know.