Muammar Gaddafi speach at the UN today.

Captain Furball

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvOo5LK22sg

He was supposed to talk for 15 minutes.I'd encourage everyone to watch this.

Basically mike he talked about invasions, murders, double standards, veto's and moving the UN to somewhere like Austria or China.I thought it was a very truthful and candid speech and to be fair to the man i think he won a lot of support around the world.

In once instance he mentions the Somalian Pirates and says that we are the pirates not the Somalians.When I say we, I mean Libya and the west, along with Japan, India and others.
He goes onto say that after the west looted the country, they have dumped toxic waste and stolen their fish from inside Somalia's 200 mile limit.So those guys everyone assumed where pirates are actually trying to stop foreign ships from coming into their waters.They also want pay back for what was taken from them.

mike65

I'll pass, what do you think?

prinz

3 odd minutes in and he's suggesting the swine flu virus was created in a laboratory as a military weapon... yeah yeah heard it all before Col.

Captain Furball

Basically mike he talked about invasions, murders, double standards, veto's and moving the UN to somewhere like Austria or China.I thought it was a very truthful and candid speech and to be fair to the man i think he won a lot of support around the world.

Scofflaw

Sigh. Look, no video-only OP's. Will check back in a while - if the OP can put up the main points of the speech in the OP (just 3-4 main points will do), then the thread lives. Otherwise...

moderately,
Scofflaw

prinz

Basically Mike, the usual ramblings of a vain, aging old git, determined to maintain his grip on power and fantastic wealth, while lashing out at the UN/America, all the while translated by some bumbling and inarticulate non-native English speaker, so it's hard to follow exactly what he means at times.

Captain Furball

Prinz
I think you will find that the rambling is done by the scoundrel reading off the teleprompter.As you can see - Gaddafi doesnt require a teleprompter for his speech,nor does he need a team of speech writers.
The attempt to silence or discredit a man is the greatest affirmation you can lend him.Go ahead call him a nut-job if you like.
But as you watch more of that speech -hopefully something will resonate with you and that is you will see he makes some very valid points which you've never heard of, or perhaps even not considered before.Valid enough points that when he was beginning his talk about Iraq CNN and sky news both went to adds.

Just watch it.

Blazer

Captain Furball wrote: »

Prinz
I think you will find that the rambling is done by the scoundrel reading off the teleprompter.As you watch more and more of that speech you will see he makes so valid points which you've never heard of or perhaps considered before.

I don't know which is more ridiculous...Gaddafi being allowed to preach to the UN or you believing his crap...

prinz

Captain Furball wrote: »

As you watch more and more of that speech you will see he makes so valid points which you've never heard of or perhaps considered before.

Nope. Nothing new here tbh. Abolish the Security Council... majority voting in the General Assembly... remove the veto... . All ideas which have been knocking about for some time now.

Africa deserves 7.77 trillion compensation... lol, where'd he pull that figure from?

DoireNod

prinz wrote: »

Africa deserves 7.77 trillion compensation... lol, where'd he pull that figure from?

I suppose it's an educated guess from the precedent of colonialism from European nations and the raping of their natural resources by those nations? Who knows?

Scofflaw

Berkut wrote: »

I don't know which is more ridiculous...Gaddafi being allowed to preach to the UN or you believing his crap...

Do be polite, please.

moderately,
Scofflaw

sceptre

Captain Furball wrote: »

The attempt to silence or discredit a man is the greatest affirmation you can lend him.

No it isn't. That's something spread by nut-jobs. The greatest affirmation you can give someone is to say they're right.

Calling someone a nutjob doesn't make them right - it makes them accused of being a nutjob, nothing more or less.

Victor

Captain Furball wrote: »

... he talked about ... moving the UN to somewhere like Austria or China.

And not Switzerland, given his current spat with them.

In once instance he mentions the Somalian Pirates and says that we are the pirates not the Somalians.When I say we, I mean Libya and the west, along with Japan, India and others.
He goes onto say that after the west looted the country, they have dumped toxic waste and stolen their fish from inside Somalia's 200 mile limit.So those guys everyone assumed where pirates are actually trying to stop foreign ships from coming into their waters.

Much of this is true and/or plausible.

They also want pay back for what was taken from them.

Of course, Libya, Ethiopia and Somalia were the three main parts of the Italian empire up to WWII and I imagine Libya can indentify with Somalia's problems. While there is much talk of compensation by or to Libya for violent actions during the 1980s, Libya is also after compensation from Italy. I think a figure of $/€5bn is being talked about.

Nodin

It should be pointed out that even when Gadaffi speaks the truth, or sense, and isn't having a laugh (which I often suspect he is),and even allowing for the fact he might actually be sincere and give a damn, he's at the end of the day a not very nice man. He's not the worst dictator on the planet, but dictator he is.

Nodin

That wasn't phrased very well, was it....More coffee required....

Cannibal Ox

He wouldn't have done it if Bush was around. He (probably) thinks that Obama, deep down, agrees with some of his points. Bush wouldn't. So he knows he can get away with saying it. And it's things that academics, specialists, ngos and other organisations in the West have been saying for years, so it's not like it's all the ravings of a madman. He's Machiavelli's Prince incarnate, and you'd almost have to take your hat off to him if he wasn't quite such a murderous bastard.

Nodin wrote:

It should be pointed out that even when Gadaffi speaks the
truth, or sense, and isn't having a laugh (which I often suspect he is),and even allowing for the fact he might actually be sincere and give a damn, he's at the end of the day a not very nice man. He's not the worst dictator on the planet, but dictator he is.

I get your point, but someone like Gadaffi could throw back the US or China's human rights record back at you and say, who is worse? And you'd kind have to struggle not to say one of the major powers so who should you listen to?

Dirk Gently

any link with a better translation? I can't listen to that mumbling translator.

Nodin

Cannibal Ox wrote: »

I get your point, but someone like Gadaffi could throw back the US or China's human rights record back at you and say, who is worse? And you'd kind have to struggle not to say one of the major powers so who should you listen to?

Well, China is capable of ferocious brutality and cares not a whit what others get upto.

The US is problematic, in that it tends not to crap in its own house, but has been known to enable liberal and copious soiling elsewhere.....for freedom, apparently. Latin America is the one that always sticks in my mind. There is, however, some possibility of restraint with the US, not so with either China, or indeed Mr Gadaffi.

He also misses the point that while others may indeed be worse, and he and the Libyan state were perhaps unfairly demonised (they lost a war with Chad....not exactly the kind of thing a contender for 'threat to free world' should have on the resume), that doesn't excuse him for his misdeeds.

Martyr

when somalians steal a boat, they're pirates, if us/uk take over a country, they're liberators and fine decent men.
your problems are closer to home i'd say.

humanji

When Somalians commit an act of piracy, they're pirates. It doesn't matter what their reasons or history.

Martyr

But of course humanji, the UK/US are in Iraq/Afghanistan to free the oppressed people from the dictatorship that was in place before

The Iraqis/Afghans clearly want a foreign armed force in their country... :rolleyes:

Operation Enduring Freedom ho-hum...hey look, x-factor is on!!

Martyr

Martyr wrote: »

The Iraqis/Afghans clearly want a foreign armed force in their country... :rolleyes:

Well, in the same tone, no they'd rather be ruled by despots and fundamentalists because they actually like death by gassing and stoning...:rolleyes:

The Saint

Martyr wrote: »

But of course humanji, the UK/US are in Iraq/Afghanistan to free the oppressed people from the dictatorship that was in place before

The Iraqis/Afghans clearly want a foreign armed force in their country... :rolleyes:

Operation Enduring Freedom ho-hum...hey look, x-factor is on!!

It's not a zero-sum arguement. One side being wrong doesn't necessarily make the other side right. Regardless of the actions of the US (which I largely disagree with in relation to the Middle East), piracy is still a crime under international law.

Rujib1

Brian Cody, should be brought before a tribunal as well. He invaded Jones's Road, 4 years ago, and fliks the hurley accross the hands of Ger Loughnane every time he tries to liberate the place
Who gives a toss about dictators in far flung places when we have one at home :eek:

R1

getcover

The Saint wrote: »

piracy is still a crime under international law.

I think the point is that what is being simply portrayed as an act of piracy, may not be so clearcut upon closer inspection.

Cannibal Ox

Nodin wrote:

He also misses the point that while others may indeed be worse...that doesn't excuse him for his misdeeds.

Of course not, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't listen to him. He still has an awful lot of power, has his fingers in many, many pies, is chairman of the AU and is one of the most powerful heads of state in Africa. My point is that if we dismissed heads of state or states because they've done something bad, we'd quickly run out of people to talk to.

whynotwhycanti

as much as gaddafi is a mad man and dictator he does make some interesting and fair points. Firstly his estimation of Africa being owed some trillions of dollars is not probably that far off when you actually think of how that continent has been pillaged for hundreds of years, from its natural resources to its cheap labour, major corporations and governments have worked together to milk that continent for everything it is worth so they could get big fat profits. Thats a fact and he's is right in what he says there, only the most ignorant right wing fanatic could argue against the way Africa as a continent and Africans as people have been treated. A couple of trillion is not actually that much for an entire continent when the US owe China over one trillion dollars, a debt that has only accummulated in the last few decades.

The fact is that the 'developed' conutries of the world owe their continued success and prosperity to the poor countries of the world. They can pillage these 'emerging markets' that they welcome into the 'global economic system' for cheap resources and cheap labour. For crying out loud, the british government supported the military dictatorship of Suharto in Indonesia with guns and diplomacy for years, while they were committing genocide in East Timor. Yet this was deemed okay, Britain being a geat example of democracy, freedom and liberty. If Gaddafi had been supplying the Indonesian with arms we'd all be on here calling him a mad man, murderer dictator etc etc. profiting from genocide. The double standards and hypocricy of Western governements is outstanding.

Sorry for rambling on there and going off point. Basically alot of what he says carries so much truth. The problem is it is being told to us by a dictator so we automatically don't believe it and think he is a mad man spurting some lies. What is more scary is that the majority of the poeple can ignore what he says and believe it to be false but at the same time switch on 'sky news' or something like that and believe immediately what we are told from our own politicians and newsreaders without ever questioning it. Not to mention how biased and uninformative the media has beconme, filling our ears with disinformation and leaving out the truth and what really matters.

Martyr

Well, in the same tone, no they'd rather be ruled by despots and fundamentalists because they actually like death by gassing and stoning...

i never said 1 was better than the other, but that's my point.

I'm not naive enough to believe one is more justified in their actions like some people on these forums.

How many people died at the hands of Saddam compared to US/UK military?
Are Iraqis now really better off? Can you honestly answer yes? Who would believe such rubbish?

you have no argument here, US/UK have murdered many more..but of course, the victims are "just terrorists" like the poor somalians are "just pirates" because piracy is "illegal by international law" but invasion and occupation of a country by force isn't?

pillaging of a countrys natural resources also isn't a crime apparently, well..not if you're UK/US, it's fair game then, just tell all the gullible people you're there for WMD or fighting "terrorism" and they'll believe everything.

Most people wouldn't view an illegal invasion and occupation of Iraq/Afghanistan by UK/US the same as Libya invading a country..not that libya would be capable, but it's classic hypocrisy.

How can any of you possibly compare Gaddafi to George Bush? ...i've no idea.

1 set of rules for west and another for the "terrorist" states like Libya...israel is allowed to have nuclear power, iran isn't...you don't see the hypocrisy? it's quite clear.

israel is allowed to abuse palestinians, palestinians defending themselves are "terrorists"..

when catholics were denied equal rights in northern ireland, they were treated like dogs, yet when they fight for those rights, they're called "terrorists" also -- same story, same ignorance.

i'm not blind to what's going on, i clearly see who's at fault for alot of problems in the world today and don't just regurgitate news from the mainstream journalists and broadcasters.

if your only opinion on a subject is what a journalist tells you..well, too bad for you.

Martyr

Martyr wrote: »

I'm not naive enough to believe one is more justified in their actions like some people on these forums.
...
you have no argument here
...
How can any of you possibly compare Gaddafi to George Bush? ...i've no idea.
...
i clearly see who's at fault for alot of problems in the world today and don't just regurgitate news from the mainstream journalists and broadcasters.

Well fair play to you. You have said you're right so you're right. You get to choose a Che Guevara or Bobby Sands teeshirt. I will not eat MacDonalds for a week and write 100 lines on why Libyan terrorists are nicer than Americans.

Martyr

another worthless response not worthy of rebuttal i'm afraid, try harder..

Martyr

Martyr wrote: »

another worthless response not worthy of rebuttal i'm afraid, try harder..

What?

You mean you thought your 'I am right 'cos I am right and everyone MUST hate Americans' was a worthy response?

I thought you were being facetious, come on, you even threw in "the men behind the wire" and the Gaza strip into the mix! Is there any terrorist you won't defend?

Anyway, if you prefer the likes of Gaddafi to the Yanks, good for you. That is your decision. Gimme Starbucks and MacD and the land of the free and the home of the brave any day.