Vote yes or the evnviroment gets it.

Captain Furball

The yes side are going all out now along with the newspapers who are frantic to print everything that comes out their arse.

Basically there was an "article" in one of the "newspapers" saying if we vote no then the world is doomed and they can't stop the sun from affecting earths climate with more taxes.

What a load of bollocks.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/0924/breaking52.htm

PopeBuckfastXVI

Captain Furball wrote: »

The yes side are going all out now along with the newspapers who are frantic to print everything that comes out their arse.

Basically there was an "article" in one of the "newspapers" saying if we vote no then the world is doomed and they can't stop the sun from affecting earths climate with more taxes.

What a load of bollocks.

Any "chance" of a "link" to this "article" in the "newspaper" to which you "refer"?

Sam Vimes

I would assume they're referring to article 4 & 194, TFEU:

Energy and the Environment become greater EU competencies [Article 4 & 194, TFEU]

Ireland has a minuscule amount of power and influence in these areas. The EU can provide better legislation and act more effectively for our benefit than we can on our own. Russia, Europe’s main gas supplier consistently takes advantage of the divided energy market, playing one country against another, cutting off supplies and effectively bullying individual states. Russia will have a much more difficult time if it faces a united EU energy policy, the EU will be the one dictating the terms. The treaty also affirms that combating climate change is a major objective of the Union, which was actually negotiated for by the Irish delegation.

Is your post a direct quote or a straw man of what was actually said?

PopeBuckfastXVI

Thanks for the link, which refers to quotes from various speakers at a Green Party event saying things like:

The notion of Ireland kyboshing Lisbon ahead of Copenhagen in December to me is suicidal. It would put Ireland on the margins and really, really set back efforts at resolving climate issues probably for years.

Energy efficiency, sustainability, combatting climate change – without Europe it cannot be done. It is clear to anybody that without European legislation, without those directives the whole question of sustainability just wouldn't figure.

I believe if we were to turn our back on Europe now certainly from my point of you I would really seriously consider whether I would want to stay in this country. I don't want to be part of a society that is self righteous, arrogant and ignorant about the big issues that we face

And nothing about the Sun or Taxes.

Some_Person

More bullying and threats into voting yes. As for taxes.......carbon taxes are being talked about aren't they?

Sam Vimes

Some_Person wrote: »

More bullying and threats into voting yes. As for taxes.......carbon taxes are being talked about aren't they?

If I tell you that walking around with your eyes closed makes it more likely that you will be hit by a car am I bullying and threatening you or am I giving you good advice?

PopeBuckfastXVI

Some_Person wrote: »

More bullying and threats into voting yes. As for taxes.......carbon taxes are being talked about aren't they?

What have carbon taxes got to do with Lisbon? Or the linked article from the OP?

And how does a room of environmentalists talking to environmentalists about how ratifying Lisbon might help the environment constitute 'bullying and threats'?

Jesus wept, some people go out of their way to be 'bullied'.

Captain Furball

PopeBuckfastXVI wrote:

Energy efficiency, sustainability, combatting climate change – without Europe it cannot be done. It is clear to anybody that without European legislation, without those directives the whole question of sustainability just wouldn't figure.

What have carbon taxes got to do with Lisbon? Or the linked article from the OP?

Here you just answered your own question.

PopeBuckfastXVI

Captain Furball wrote: »

What have carbon taxes got to do with Lisbon? Or the linked article from the OP?

Here you just answered your own question.

How?

Energy[not Carbon or Tax] efficiency[not Carbon or Tax], sustainability[not Carbon or Tax], combatting[not Carbon or Tax] climate[not Carbon or Tax] change[not Carbon or Tax] – without[not Carbon or Tax] Europe[not Carbon or Tax] it[not Carbon or Tax] cannot[not Carbon or Tax] be[not Carbon or Tax] done[not Carbon or Tax]. It[not Carbon or Tax] is[not Carbon or Tax] clear[not Carbon or Tax] to[not Carbon or Tax] anybody[not Carbon or Tax] that[not Carbon or Tax] without[not Carbon or Tax] European[not Carbon or Tax] legislation[not Carbon or Tax], without[not Carbon or Tax] those[not Carbon or Tax] directives[not Carbon or Tax] the[not Carbon or Tax] whole[not Carbon or Tax] question[not Carbon or Tax] of[not Carbon or Tax] sustainability[not Carbon or Tax] just[not Carbon or Tax] wouldn't[not Carbon or Tax] figure[not Carbon or Tax].

Been through every word, and I don't see the words Carbon or Tax crop up, do you?

Captain Furball

Typography are you familiar with that term?

Sam Vimes

Captain Furball wrote: »

What have carbon taxes got to do with Lisbon? Or the linked article from the OP?

Here you just answered your own question.

I can't find the words carbon or tax anywhere in that article and the Lisbon treaty contains no provisions for one so I don't think the question has been answered as of yet

PopeBuckfastXVI

Captain Furball wrote: »

Typography are you familiar with that term?

Quite. I don't see any mention of typeface design either...

Captain Furball

Your not very friendly are you.
Your saying you cannot see your own question?
Would you like me to put it in red instead of dark black?

So you going through a text looking for the words carbon or tax?
Why would you do that?

PopeBuckfastXVI

Captain Furball wrote: »

Your not very friendly are you.
Your saying you cannot see your own question?
Would you like me to put it in red instead of dark black?

You initially didn't include it then edited the post no? I edited my post after I saw which question you were referring to.

See above.

Captain Furball

Now your playing catchup?
Go back to your own question you answered it yourself as i said 5 posts back.
And stop editing.

Scofflaw

Captain Furball wrote: »

Your not very friendly are you.
Your saying you cannot see your own question?
Would you like me to put it in red instead of dark black?

So you going through a text looking for the words carbon or tax?
Why would you do that?

Captain Furball, you're pretty much trolling here. Cut it out.

moderately,
Scofflaw

Sam Vimes

Captain Furball wrote: »

Now your playing catchup?
Go back to your own question you answered it yourself as i said 5 posts back.
And stop editing.

The question is what do carbon taxes have to do with the Lisbon treaty and the article. There is nothing preventing the Irish government implementing a carbon tax right now and there is talk of one in December's budget. It just won't make much of a difference unless everyone does it.

Captain Furball

You think so?
I beg to differ. He answered his own question many posts back.
Maybe he's not understanding or reading what he quotes?

Captain Furball

Sam Vimes wrote: »

The question is what do carbon taxes have to do with the Lisbon treaty and the article. There is nothing preventing the Irish government implementing a carbon tax right now and there is talk of one in December's budget. It just won't make much of a difference unless everyone does it.

The question was answered or so i thought with his own quote.
If you have a "UNITED EUROPE" then things are much easier to get done.
Do you not see where one could get that notion in his quote ??

[QUOTE=[PopeBuckfastXVI] Energy efficiency, sustainability, combatting climate change – without Europe it cannot be done. It is clear to anybody that without European legislation, without those directives the whole question of sustainability just wouldn't figure.
[/QUOTE]

I highlighted them for you.

Scofflaw

Captain Furball wrote: »

The question was answered or so i thought with his own quote.
If you have a "UNITED EUROPE" then things are much easier to get done.
Do you not see where one could get that notion in his quote ??

I highlighted them for you.

And where does that relate to this:

Captain Furball wrote:

The yes side are going all out now along with the newspapers who are frantic to print everything that comes out their arse.

or this:

Captain Furball wrote:

Basically there was an "article" in one of the "newspapers" saying if we vote no then the world is doomed and they can't stop the sun from affecting earths climate with more taxes.

or this:

Captain Furball wrote:

What a load of bollocks.

If there's a substantive point to this thread, it's whether (a) Lisbon is needed as part of the drive against climate change, and (b) whether Lisbon allows the introduction of carbon taxes.

However, you're not actually engaged with those points at all.

regards,
Scofflaw

Captain Furball

Your entitled to your point of view.

Sam Vimes

Captain Furball wrote: »

The question was answered or so i thought with his own quote.
If you have a "UNITED EUROPE" then things are much easier to get done.
Do you not see where one could get that notion in his quote ??

Energy efficiency, sustainability, combatting climate change – without Europe it cannot be done. It is clear to anybody that without European legislation, without those directives the whole question of sustainability just wouldn't figure.

I highlighted them for you.

As I said, there's nothing stopping them from introducing a carbon tax right now but it just won't make much of a difference. 4 million people cutting down on carbon does not have anywhere near the same effect as 500 million doing it, so climate change will not be combated. That does not mean that there's a law preventing them from introducing a carbon tax or that they won't do it if Lisbon doesn't pass. It just means, as the article says, that "the fight against climate change would be set back for possibly years"

Captain Furball

People won't accept a carbon tax right now.
I would interpret that quote a lot differently than you just have.
The way i see it is. They Need a 500 million strong voice just like you just said.
But, it won't be a 500 million strong voice at all -it's just the same politicians saying there speaking for 500 million people.

So they think they can tackle the sun with tax. Go ahead see how that works out.

Sam Vimes

Captain Furball wrote: »

People won't accept a carbon tax right now.
I would interpret that quote a lot differently than you just have.
The way i see it is. They Need a 500 million strong voice just like you just said.
But, it won't be a 500 million strong voice at all -it's just the same politicians saying there speaking for 500 million people.

So they think they can tackle the sun with tax. Go ahead see how that works out.

Have you done a poll of the people? They've accepted an awful lot of things from our government recently so what makes you think that a carbon tax will be the final straw? And what makes you think it will be any different if the tax is coming via the EU, when it can only come if that same government vote for it?

ixtlan

Captain Furball wrote: »

People won't accept a carbon tax right now.
...
So they think they can tackle the sun with tax. Go ahead see how that works out.

It's likely the Irish government will implement carbon taxes because we simply need more money. If Lisbon passes there might possibly be a push to get the other states to do the same. After we have implemented our tax most likely we will be one of the states pushing hard for the others to do the same in order to maintain competitiveness.

From your comment about tackling the sun with tax, I assume you do not believe that global warming is caused by mankinds influence, which actually makes sense for a no voter. If I had Patricia Mckenna for a few minutes I would press her on why I should believe in mankind's influence on global warming when there is a very vocal 5% of engineers and scientists and economists who disagree. Then when she told me I should listen to the other 95% I would ask why she doesn't do this for Lisbon.

For you at least you are being consistent... always believe in the 5% anti-establishment view.

Ix

PopeBuckfastXVI

There's nothing to say EU legislation will take the form of a Carbon Tax.

You can repeat it all you want, but it won't make it so, it will just make you repetitive, and silly.