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Vote No because

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    #32
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Personally I think if one constituency votes No, say Donegal NE, Ireland should reject the Treaty.

    We should then see what Donegal NE wants and vote again.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #33
    meglome
    Registered Users Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    CCCP^ wrote: »
    Oh yes, let us not disgruntle our precious US investors who feck off to eastern europe once IDA funding is gone. We should have spent our time and money building up Irish industry, not wasting money on american multi-nationals who would just feck off once the tax incentives were gone.

    Yes business can be fickle. How many many millions did we make off these companies even if they did move in the end?

    We should have built up Irish business but we reaped the 'rewards' that voting in the tools from Fianna Fail brought. WE voted them in, even if I didn't.
    CCCP^ wrote: »
    The French and Dutch voted No but you don't see those countries looking bad in the eyes of all the EU states.

    They voted No and got and their concerns were addressed by getting rid of the state-like sections and went back to the drawing board. But not to forget that Spain and Luxembourg voted Yes. We also voted No and they addressed the concerns of the Irish people but didn't need to go back to the drawing board. My God almost seems like the EU listen and care.
    CCCP^ wrote: »
    ****ing Sarkozy is head of the Lisbon bandwagon and his country voted No to all this mess.

    Personally I don't give a **** what Sarkozy wants. We need to vote in changes so his opinion means nothing. Also the EU constitution is long gone so why are we still discussing it?
    CCCP^ wrote: »
    This treaty is nothing but the start of political unification of the EU - an EU as one single political entity with one single leadership, ...

    And the German constitutional court found there was nothing that created a federalist state in the Lisbon treaty. And I personally wouldn't vote for for one.
    CCCP^ wrote: »
    ...and if people say "well this is the age we live in, small countries can't compete on the world stage anymore this is globalization" then **** them, they dont care at all about sovereignty or national rights, but its small countries like us that will get ****ed over in the end, it always is.

    The idea that a small nation like Ireland that needs to export most of our goods can be truly independent is rubbish. I'm sure Iceland will look back fondly at their independence and how it left them in the toilet.


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    #34
    roosh
    Registered Users Posts: 2,553 ✭✭✭roosh


    prinz wrote: »
    There are 27 Member States now. There weren't that many a few years ago. Somethings need to change to allow for that. It's not about "tightening a grip", it's the Lisbon Reform Treaty, in that it reforms the current processes and previous treaties to allow a more balanced structure for all members.

    That doesn't necessarily mean that Lisbon is the right way to go about this.

    Indeed, it might well be the best way to go about this, but this has not been communicated effectively to the electorate. If it were the right way to do so, one would have to presume that we would be left in no doubt whatsoever. I'm afraid there is major doubt and very little concrete evidence to suggest that the Yes campaign is correct.

    are we allowed post links in here?


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    #35
    meglome
    Registered Users Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    mangaroosh wrote: »
    That doesn't necessarily mean that Lisbon is the right way to go about this.

    Indeed, it might well be the best way to go about this, but this has not been communicated effectively to the electorate. If it were the right way to do so, one would have to presume that we would be left in no doubt whatsoever. I'm afraid there is major doubt and very little concrete evidence to suggest that the Yes campaign is correct.

    are we allowed post links in here?

    The problem as I see it is this...

    I personally came in here with an open mind. I didn't vote the last time as I didn't know anything about the treaty but I was No leaning. So after reading up in detail about the treaty I decided to vote Yes. Then after seeing the amount of lying from the No side I started actively campaigning for the Yes side. But the important thing I did was to keep an open mind. The EU has never done anything without negotiating, they have never even tried to force anything on us. So to a reasonable degree I trust them. In fact I'd trust the EU over our own government in a heartbeat.

    I'm ****ing tired of people saying I'm not against the EU but... Or the EU have been good to us but...
    The Lisbon treaty cannot please some people because they simply don't want it to please them, no treaty could ever please them. Basically the entire No campaign has campaigned for a No vote to every single EU treaty. even when we joined. It's time for people to be open minded, to do what's best for Ireland and really time for some ****ing honesty.


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    #36
    moondogspot
    Closed Accounts Posts: 113 ✭✭moondogspot


    meglome wrote: »
    The problem as I see it is this...

    So to a reasonable degree I trust them. In fact I'd trust the EU over our own government in a heartbeat.

    I don't trust either of them at all.:(


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    #37
    meglome
    Registered Users Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    moondogspot wrote: »
    I don't trust either of them at all.:(

    Name one single thing the EU has even tried to force us to do?

    It's sad we see people describing the EU like it's North Korea, it's sad and it completely wrong.


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    #38
    moondogspot
    Closed Accounts Posts: 113 ✭✭moondogspot


    meglome wrote: »
    Name one single thing the EU has even tried to force us to do?

    To pass the Lisbon Treaty.;) Remember we did vote No.


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    #39
    meglome
    Registered Users Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    moondogspot wrote: »
    To pass the Lisbon Treaty.;)

    Our own government decided that. What did the EU do?


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    #40
    moondogspot
    Closed Accounts Posts: 113 ✭✭moondogspot


    meglome wrote: »
    Our own government decided that. What did the EU do?

    You would seriously want to be in complete denial to say that there wasn't any pressure put on our government by the EU to make sure that we held a 2nd Lisbon referendum.


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    #41
    meglome
    Registered Users Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    moondogspot wrote: »
    You would seriously want to be in complete denial to say that there wasn't any pressure put on our government by the EU to make sure that we held a 2nd Lisbon referendum.

    They can ask our government but I've seen nothing that shows how they could force us or really apply any pressure. Maybe it makes good sense to vote Yes so our government were delighted to do so.


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    #42
    IrelandSpirit
    Registered Users Posts: 831 ✭✭✭IrelandSpirit


    meglome wrote: »
    They can ask our government but I've seen nothing that shows how they could force us or really apply any pressure. Maybe it makes good sense to vote Yes so our government were delighted to do so.

    Ehmmm, let me think, how about the fact our government were urging us to sign up to a constitution which they themselves didn’t even read! LOL!

    Does it make good sense to sign contracts without reading them first?

    That alone clearly demonstrates that certain pressures (or 'incentives') were obviously there form the very beginning.


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