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They're Being Wasted!

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2

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    #32
    Captain Furball
    Closed Accounts Posts: 909 ✭✭✭Captain Furball


    You always answer a question with a question?
    I know a guy who does that as well.


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    #33
    roosh
    Registered Users Posts: 2,553 ✭✭✭roosh


    Voltwad wrote: »
    You may want to think twice about your associates then. Mass generalization there. Alas...

    How many murders a week are there? Nothing to do with Lisbon
    How many people on drugs? Nothing to do with Lisbon
    How many emphatic people do you meet and talk with? Nothing to do with Lisbon
    How many friendly people? Nothing to do with Lisbon?


    To say that the 41 Billion the EU has given us has caused any of those issues is ridiculous but kudos for solidifying my stance that No campaigners are happy to use straying from the point to get people to agree with them.

    To be fair though, the Yes campaign is based entirely on scaremongering and lies.


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    #34
    meglome
    Registered Users Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    mangaroosh wrote: »
    To be fair though, the Yes campaign is based entirely on scaremongering and lies.

    What lies?


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    #35
    The Volt
    Registered Users Posts: 7,957 ✭✭✭The Volt


    Captain Furball wrote: »
    My question was.
    So you think society has gotten better in the last while ?

    And you answered with the above.
    Are you even replying to the same topic as i am?
    I actually answered your question :) As for the more recent past, anything that has been detremental to Irish Society has not come from elements of the Treaty.


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    #36
    The Volt
    Registered Users Posts: 7,957 ✭✭✭The Volt


    mangaroosh wrote: »

    The yes campaign has been based on empty rhetoric, logical fallacies and scaremongering. Voting yes would show us to be a laughing stock

    Think you mean the no campaign there mate ;)


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    #37
    meglome
    Registered Users Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    Captain Furball wrote: »
    You always answer a question with a question?
    I know a guy who does that as well.

    You see I can claim I'm king of the world but unless I can prove that I'm really king of the world then people will assume I'm just making it up.

    So maybe you and your buddy should prove some of what you're saying.


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    #38
    Captain Furball
    Closed Accounts Posts: 909 ✭✭✭Captain Furball


    Voltwad wrote: »
    I actually answered your question :) As for the more recent past, anything that has been detremental to Irish Society has not come from elements of the Treaty.
    What treaty?
    You mean the eec? We both said 1970's Although people didn't become assholes till around the 90's :)


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    #39
    roosh
    Registered Users Posts: 2,553 ✭✭✭roosh


    meglome wrote: »
    They make processors, thery're used in CT scanners as well. How much do Intel make from weapons?

    How much do they stand to make


    meglome wrote: »
    Didn't they just lose their appeal?
    In the court of First Instance is it? That's the end of the appeals process I guess!


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    #40
    Captain Furball
    Closed Accounts Posts: 909 ✭✭✭Captain Furball


    meglome wrote: »
    You see I can claim I'm king of the world but unless I can prove that I'm really king of the world then people will assume I'm just making it up.

    So maybe you and your buddy should prove some of what you're saying.
    My buddy?What do you want evidence? :eek:


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    #41
    The Volt
    Registered Users Posts: 7,957 ✭✭✭The Volt


    Captain Furball wrote: »
    What treaty?
    You mean the eec? We both said 1970's Although people didn't become assholes till around the 90's :)
    The one we're voting on next week.


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    #42
    roosh
    Registered Users Posts: 2,553 ✭✭✭roosh


    meglome wrote: »
    What lies?

    One that jumps out is the campaign poster saying:

    "It's simple, I want a strong voice in Europe - Vote Yes"

    because voting Yes actually weakens our voting rights and therefore "our voice".

    The rest is just empty rhetoric, logical fallacies and scare mongering


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    #43
    Captain Furball
    Closed Accounts Posts: 909 ✭✭✭Captain Furball


    Money ruined our society that's my point.
    Lisbon will ruin it even more.


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    #44
    meglome
    Registered Users Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    mangaroosh wrote: »
    One that jumps out is the campaign poster saying:

    "It's simple, I want a strong voice in Europe - Vote Yes"

    because voting Yes actually weakens our voting rights and therefore "our voice".

    The rest is just empty rhetoric, logical fallacies and scare mongering

    75% of legislation that comes from Europe is negotiated in advance between EU governments. If we give the finger to the EU for bull**** reasons which have nothing to do with the treaty then when we go to negotiate the next time it will be much more difficult for us.


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    #45
    meglome
    Registered Users Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    Captain Furball wrote: »
    Money ruined our society that's my point.
    Lisbon will ruin it even more.

    Voting in ****e government ruined our society. People lying to get elected ruined our society. Maybe you should learn a lesson from that.


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    #46
    Captain Furball
    Closed Accounts Posts: 909 ✭✭✭Captain Furball


    meglome wrote: »
    75% of legislation that comes from Europe is negotiated in advance between EU governments. If we give the finger to the EU for bull**** reasons which have nothing to do with the treaty then when we go to negotiate the next time it will be much more difficult for us.

    Awwwwww poor ireland....


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    #47
    Captain Furball
    Closed Accounts Posts: 909 ✭✭✭Captain Furball


    meglome wrote: »
    Voting in ****e government ruined our society. People lying to get elected ruined our society. Maybe you should learn a lesson from that.
    I'm talking about people your talking about how much money you have,


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    #48
    roosh
    Registered Users Posts: 2,553 ✭✭✭roosh


    Voltwad wrote: »
    Think you mean the no campaign there mate ;)

    Yes to Jobs = Logical Fallacy
    Yes to Recovery = Logical Fallacy
    We're better with Europe = Logical Fallacy
    Stronger voice in Europe = Lie


    Voting yes, because we're frightened and can't think logically is what will make us the laughing stock. Its our politicians that will be embarrassed if we vote no, not the people of Ireland. Voting No shows that we aren't going to just have this thing shoved down our throat, because we were too afraid to question those in power. It'll show that we have thought about this, and that we can see when we are being molly coddled.

    If we fall for this Mrs.Doyle politics:
    sure ye'll vote Yes to Lisbon - erra no Mr.Cowen, we wont - ah go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on

    Not only will we become the laughing stocks, we'll become the forgotten ones. "The good ol' Irish, sure if they say no the first time, just ask them again, sure they won't even realise that it means they'll be weakening their position"


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    #49
    The Volt
    Registered Users Posts: 7,957 ✭✭✭The Volt


    mangaroosh wrote: »
    Yes to Jobs = Logical Fallacy
    Yes to Recovery = Logical Fallacy
    We're better with Europe = Logical Fallacy
    Stronger voice in Europe = Lie


    Voting yes, because we're frightened and can't think logically is what will make us the laughing stock. Its our politicians that will be embarrassed if we vote no, not the people of Ireland. Voting No shows that we aren't going to just have this thing shoved down our throat, because we were too afraid to question those in power. It'll show that we have thought about this, and that we can see when we are being molly coddled.

    If we fall for this Mrs.Doyle politics:
    sure ye'll vote Yes to Lisbon - erra no Mr.Cowen, we wont - ah go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on

    Not only will we become the laughing stocks, we'll become the forgotten ones. "The good ol' Irish, sure if they say no the first time, just ask them again, sure they won't even realise that it means they'll be weakening their position"
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear_mongering


    "Minimum Wage after Lisbon €1.84"
    "They Won Your Freedom, Don't Throw It Away"
    Abortion etc.


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    #50
    Captain Furball
    Closed Accounts Posts: 909 ✭✭✭Captain Furball


    Voltwad wrote: »
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear_mongering


    "Minimum Wage after Lisbon €1.84"
    "They Won Your Freedom, Don't Throw It Away"
    Abortion etc.
    Actually they didn't win freedom we're still an occupied country.
    So that argument is ****e.


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    #51
    The Volt
    Registered Users Posts: 7,957 ✭✭✭The Volt


    Captain Furball wrote: »
    Money ruined our society that's my point.
    Lisbon will ruin it even more.
    I fail to see how. is that a sneak preview of a new poster? :)


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    #52
    roosh
    Registered Users Posts: 2,553 ✭✭✭roosh


    meglome wrote: »
    75% of legislation that comes from Europe is negotiated in advance between EU governments. If we give the finger to the EU for bull**** reasons which have nothing to do with the treaty then when we go to negotiate the next time it will be much more difficult for us.

    Not necessarily. What it will mean is that they will have to make sure that the have us on side if anything else is going to go through, so it would actually have the opposite effect.

    Voting Yes actually, in real terms, weakens our say in Europe.


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    #53
    Captain Furball
    Closed Accounts Posts: 909 ✭✭✭Captain Furball


    Voltwad wrote: »
    I fail to see how. is that a sneak preview of a new poster? :)
    haha :)


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    #54
    thebman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,012 ✭✭✭✭thebman


    moondogspot wrote: »

    only voting Yes out of self interest.... just like all major business figures.

    But we want our businesses to succeed and expand, don't we?

    Won't that mean they are employing more people?


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    #55
    roosh
    Registered Users Posts: 2,553 ✭✭✭roosh


    Voltwad wrote: »
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear_mongering


    "Minimum Wage after Lisbon €1.84"
    "They Won Your Freedom, Don't Throw It Away"
    Abortion etc.

    I never said that the No campaign didn't use the same tactics, but lets not forget that the onus is on the Yes campaign to show reasons to change the status quo.

    I don't necessarily agree with the No campaign, rather disagree with what the Yes campaign are pushing, and it is they that are looking to change things [apart from the changes that are due to take effect], therefore, if I am going to vote Yes to change what is already scheduled to happen, I better be presented with some pretty damn good reasons to do so.


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    #56
    moondogspot
    Closed Accounts Posts: 113 ✭✭moondogspot


    thebman wrote: »
    But we want our businesses to succeed and expand, don't we?

    Won't that mean they are employing more people?

    No job is going to be magically created by the Lisbon Treaty. There is nothing in it that says

    any differently. To say otherwise is a total lie.


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    #57
    meglome
    Registered Users Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    thebman wrote: »
    But we want our businesses to succeed and expand, don't we?

    Won't that mean they are employing more people?

    The problem is in the minds of these conspiracy theory's types is they see business people as 'the elites' and evil. They fail to realise who actually pays the majority of the tax and creates most of the wealth in our society.


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    #58
    roosh
    Registered Users Posts: 2,553 ✭✭✭roosh


    thebman wrote: »
    But we want our businesses to succeed and expand, don't we?

    Won't that mean they are employing more people?

    not necessarily. If Michael O'Leary gets to take over Aer Lingus it doesn't mean he will employ more Irish people. Neither will Intel necessarily employ more people, not when they can relocate to a lower cost base, as their shareholders may encourage them to do after Lisbon gets passed.


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    #59
    The Volt
    Registered Users Posts: 7,957 ✭✭✭The Volt


    the latter happens anyway, has been for years.


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    #60
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Captain Furball wrote: »
    How many murders a week is there?
    How many people on drugs?
    How many emphatic people do you meet and talk with?
    How many friendly people?
    People have turned into **** in this country since the 1970's......
    How many idiot kids ?
    Our generation are a pack of idiots.
    And they're not very nice people these days either.


    Brilliant, brilliant.

    I'm putting this on my sig.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #61
    thebman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,012 ✭✭✭✭thebman


    moondogspot wrote: »
    No job is going to be magically created by the Lisbon Treaty. There is nothing in it that says

    any differently. To say otherwise is a total lie.

    I never said it was. The post I quoted said business people were supporting it out of self-interest.

    Presumably this self-interest is their businesses doing well. Businesses that do well expand and employ more people.

    So it doesn't have to be written in the treaty. The No campaigners that say business people want you to vote yes because they are greedy are saying it will create more jobs because when a business does well it expands to do even better (because business men are greedy) and in doing so create jobs.

    Even if you believe their motive is greed, good things can come of it. Now employing people for less than our legally defined minimum wage (ie. worker exploitation) is something that is not in the treaty and is unlikely to happen as it will break our laws.


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