Ultra Street Fighter 4 Discussion Thread

Evilsbane

chopperbyrne wrote: »

Play against people instead of Arcade Mode.

Arcade Mode is good for beginners though, as (for example) on Easy you can practice your moves on moving targets without having to worry too much about getting hit out of them, then you can notch it up to Hard and see if you can time them right and not get hit out of them, then on Hardest you learn about priority and recovery frames (the best way of beating Seth, for example, is blocking his Hyakuretsukyaku and punishing him while he recovers - in fact Boss Seth is a great tool for teaching newbies about the importance of blocking in general).

THEN you move on to actual intelligent human opponents, and start at the bottom all over again.

Besides, Arcade Mode is fun sometimes. Plus Arcade Fighter Request is as good a way as any to pass the time while you wait for players in your lobby.

Dunjohn

Evilsbane wrote: »

Arcade Mode is good for beginners though, as (for example) on Easy you can practice your moves on moving targets without having to worry too much about getting hit out of them, then you can notch it up to Hard and see if you can time them right and not get hit out of them, then on Hardest you learn about priority and recovery frames (the best way of beating Seth, for example, is blocking his Hyakuretsukyaku and punishing him while he recovers - in fact Boss Seth is a great tool for teaching newbies about the importance of blocking in general).

THEN you move on to actual intelligent human opponents, and start at the bottom all over again.

Besides, Arcade Mode is fun sometimes. Plus Arcade Fighter Request is as good a way as any to pass the time while you wait for players in your lobby.

I find the best way to beat Seth is to just stay at one side of the screen, jump his fireballs, then fierce-punch him out of his wall kick. This does, however, teach me to keep an eye on the clock.

That doesn't work on human players for some reason, so I had to stop playing Arcade.

bush

As far as I can remember from sf4, seth cant block low in arcade mode. Just keep sweeping the fool. Why play arcade though? Whats fun about exploiting bad ai?

Evilsbane

Dunjohn wrote: »

I find the best way to beat Seth is to just stay at one side of the screen, jump his fireballs, then fierce-punch him out of his wall kick. This does, however, teach me to keep an eye on the clock.

That doesn't work on human players for some reason, so I had to stop playing Arcade.

I never said it DID work against humans (and besides, fierce punching him out of his wall kick probably only works if you're playing as certain characters). I said it taught the PRINCIPLES of things like blocking and frame advantage to beginners. I never said it was a substitute for fighting a real opponent and indeed I went on to say that you should then move on to playing real people, and that you would be starting at the bottom.

bush wrote: »

As far as I can remember from sf4, seth cant block low in arcade mode. Just keep sweeping the fool. Why play arcade though? Whats fun about exploiting bad ai?

Just sweeping him ad nauseum wouldn't work because he has insanely fast reflexes and would knock you out of it with a Shoryuken or similar. You'd have to bait a wakeup Shoryuken and punish with a sweep. But even this would teach a new player about baiting wakeups.

And he can block low.

K.O.Kiki

Evilsbane wrote: »

Arcade Mode is good for beginners though, as (for example) on Easy you can practice your moves on moving targets without having to worry too much about getting hit out of them, then you can notch it up to Hard and see if you can time them right and not get hit out of them, then on Hardest you learn about priority and recovery frames (the best way of beating Seth, for example, is blocking his Hyakuretsukyaku and punishing him while he recovers - in fact Boss Seth is a great tool for teaching newbies about the importance of blocking in general).

THEN you move on to actual intelligent human opponents, and start at the bottom all over again.

Besides, Arcade Mode is fun sometimes. Plus Arcade Fighter Request is as good a way as any to pass the time while you wait for players in your lobby.

Learn in Training/Challenge mode, fight opponents in Endless.

Evilsbane

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

Learn in Training/Challenge mode, fight opponents in Endless.

Training and Challenge Mode don't have moving targets. They also don't give you much of a feel for damage scaling.

unky chop chop

chopperbyrne wrote: »

Play against people instead of Arcade Mode.

Do this.After many beatings things will fall into place.

Dunjohn

Evilsbane wrote: »

I never said it DID work against humans (and besides, fierce punching him out of his wall kick probably only works if you're playing as certain characters). I said it taught the PRINCIPLES of things like blocking and frame advantage to beginners. I never said it was a substitute for fighting a real opponent and indeed I went on to say that you should then move on to playing real people, and that you would be starting at the bottom.

I know. Settle down, I was just explaining why I stopped doing it. Either way, far from starting at rock bottom, you'd actually have to un-teach yourself some routines the AI got you in the habit of doing.

unky chop chop

To learn the PRINCIPLES play living breathing people and stop starting arguments over nothing like you just DID

Evilsbane

Dunjohn wrote: »

I know. Settle down, I was just explaining why I stopped doing it. Either way, far from starting at rock bottom, you'd actually have to un-teach yourself some routines the AI got you in the habit of doing.

Yes; on the other hand, you'd probably be better able to recognise WHY some of those routines don't work against humans, having been able to punish the AI for doing them. There are other habits you'd have to break, but at least you'd have learned the basics.

And it beats sitting around waiting for someone to join your lobby.

Doctor DooM

Evilsbane wrote: »

Yes; on the other hand, you'd probably be better able to recognise WHY some of those routines don't work against humans, having been able to punish the AI for doing them. There are other habits you'd have to break, but at least you'd have learned the basics.

Playing a human is pretty much completely different from playing AI. IMO, the only real thing you will learn is basic execution for combos. On every level of learning how to fight either on or off line though tactics wise I wold say it only does damage.

Sisko

Evilsbane wrote: »

Arcade Mode is good for beginners though, as (for example) on Easy you can practice your moves on moving targets without having to worry too much about getting hit out of them, then you can notch it up to Hard and see if you can time them right and not get hit out of them, then on Hardest you learn about priority and recovery frames.....
.......THEN you move on to actual intelligent human opponents, and start at the bottom all over again.

Not to eh lecture you or anything but this is defiantly wrong, for street fighter anyway.

Really, this game is all about fighting other people , arcade is a filler. Left overs from the days where there was no online. You can be forgiven for thinking this way though, I'd say most people going into street fighter might make the assumption that you must master beating the AI before facing humans but this is not the case at all.

Once you've gotten to the stage where you can execute moves, you should immediately go against human players. Otherwise its like playing chess against yourself. You'll learn nothing about reading the other player and getting into his head.

Fighting the AI is largely useless for learning the game beyond getting your moves down. The ai is just programmed to respond to your button inputs. The harder the setting the more it 'cheats' using this method. There are no mind games, no baiting , and so on and so forth.

I'm aware it can be difficult for new players to throw themselves into the fray online. You will get your ass handed to you, over and over again. But NEVER think "oh I need more practice against AI before I can face people online again."

Instead you need to think "I need to keep on playing these guys and I'll learn from them and read what he does and level up my game naturally."

Watching videos and replays help a lot too.

K.O.Kiki

This video should show how predictable the AI is (on Hardest!):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyrJ-1rbGcI

PPC

Changes for Guile, Seth, DeeJay and Hakan.
http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2010/dec/06/ssf4-ae-blog-changes-guile-seth-dee-jay-hakan/

Doctor DooM

Ahh FFS. I don't mind the damage nerf for Sonic Hurricane but whats the point in making it slower on start up? It's not like it's particularly easy to land as is.

Looks like I was correct about the UDK.

FutureGuy

PPC wrote: »

Changes for Guile, Seth, DeeJay and Hakan.
http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2010/dec/06/ssf4-ae-blog-changes-guile-seth-dee-jay-hakan/

DeeJay is my main, so I was looking forward to this list. Basically...

-The slide getting less distance and more active frames is making it more like his slide from SSF2T.

-I'm surprised that they made his lk upkick even better (more invincibility and damage) as it's currently one of the best AAs in the game.

-Lk. Rolling Sobat startup goes from goes from 14 to 12 frames but you can get thrown now.

-Forward dash to U2 was rediculously hard to hit because of DeeJays weird dash, but it's going to be easier now.

-A few decent changes to his normals make them a little more competative but nothing stellar. His footsie game is weak.

-Max out charge times down is clearly a good thing.

-The one thing that many DeeJay players were praying for was an overhead which wasn't included. TBH he doesn't need it because he has plenty of other tricks.

-What I find interesting is that all his rolling sobats (except lk) now have more hit stun on the first hit. This might open up some new FADC oppotunities.


OVERALL, he is clearly a better character, but in no way is this a SF4 Guile > SSF4 Guile buff. He seems have gotten buffs to the areas where he didn't really need good buffs, but any buffs to his weaknesses seem inadequate (footsies especially).

Still, this is better than nothing...they could easily have nerfed his lk/ex upkicks. :pac:

Doctor DooM

FutureGuy wrote: »

-Max out charge times down is clearly a good thing.

They actually don't say anything here about the charge time, just the recovery time. I know they did elsewhere but elsewhere they were saying flash kick was getting buffed, not nerfed.

If you're getting both, and normal buffs, you are in effect actually getting SSF4 Guile's changes

GorySnake

DeeJay is looking very strong, he got a lot of buffs with like a tiny amount of nerfs to moves that are getting buffed. Cr.mp buff is nice, that move was beast in ST.

lol Seth

Doctor DooM

GorySnake wrote: »

DeeJay is looking very strong, he got a lot of buffs with like a tiny amount of nerfs to moves that are getting buffed. Cr.mp buff is nice, that move was beast in ST.

lol Seth

Some of the SRK Guiles are saying DeeJay is looking very strong, but the ones who played Vanilla Guile are all "nerfs? these aint nerfs. Back when I were a kid we couldn't land an ultra ever and we were thankful for it!"

That said, Guile for me has always won out on fireball wars through careful use of meter. They say they've changed how alot of his moves gain but not how. Potentially this could be a huge game changer for him.

The flash kick change is puzzling. It's not a good anti air. It used to be an average move to use in combos due to the fact it was usually scaled to all hell. It currently sounds virtually useless except for it's anti cr mk xx hadoken properties now.

I'm wondering from what we've heard if this is only half the story- the flash kicks damage is reduced but getting upkicks like hit box.

Dreddybajs

Goddamnit, they could've made Seth still good and fun while removing his keepaway stuff, but they decided to wreck his offensive game too.

Ramza

gg capcom

can't wait for twins

chopperbyrne

Take away some of Seths zoning tools to encourage a more aggressive style of play, but weaken two of his aggressive tools.

UberPrinny_Baal

Looking forward to new Deejay!

FoamyMushroom

chopperbyrne wrote: »

I lol'd

Xluna

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

You want terrible plot, I give you Virtua Fighter.

• Lau Chan is a chef who just let his wife die. Also he's got some mysterious disease.

Did I mention that Virtua Fighter doesn't actually have a "Story" mode, and that the stories are written purely based on results from Tougeki (SBO)?

The clap?:pac: What's Tougeki? I don't take video game canon too seriously. Miyamoto claimed all the Zelda time lines have been listed for years but I think they just make them up as they go along.

If you want a fighting game with a really bad story line (so bad it's good) and generic, stereotypical characters, stage design and BGM then check out Art of Fighting 1&2. So bad and cheesy it's brilliant.
Speaking of which;Neo Geo comes to PSP.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=69455338#post69455338

GorySnake

Xluna wrote: »

The clap?:pac: What's Tougeki? I don't take video game canon too seriously. Miyamoto claimed all the Zelda time lines have been listed for years but I think they just make them up as they go along.

If you want a fighting game with a really bad story line (so bad it's good) and generic, stereotypical characters, stage design and BGM then check out Art of Fighting 1&2. So bad and cheesy it's brilliant.

Tougeki - Super Battle Opera, Japan's biggest event for fighting game tournaments.

Xluna

Is anyone getting the new Ultra costumes? I think overall they're much better than the last set. Can't help but feel Capcom took a bit of inspiration from Namco in this one aspect. Juri's new constume looks alot like Nina Williams' and Ibuki's looks alot like Julia Changs' costume.

JohnMc1

Xluna wrote: »

Is anyone getting the new Ultra costumes? I think overall they're much better than the last set. Can't help but feel Capcom took a bit of inspiration from Namco in this one aspect. Juri's new constume looks alot like Nina Williams' and Ibuki's looks alot like Julia Changs' costume.

When is it out?

Orim

They're realeasing them over the next couple of weeks. Femme Fatale pack is out and one of the others came out. New Challengers I think.

Xluna

JohnMc1 wrote: »

When is it out?

Every second Tuesday. Brawler pack is out 21 of Dec. Shadoloo on New years day and Classic pack is out on the 15 of Jan.

http://www.siliconera.com/2010/11/05/super-street-fighter-iv-ultra-costume-packs-have-new-release-dates/