Ultra Street Fighter 4 Discussion Thread

K.O.Kiki

Or in other words:
EX JT is fixed so that it works now.

st.MP will be THE tool to use on every jump-in.

dyl10

Looking for a couple of games on Xbox live for experience, I'm no good but could do with the experience, if anyone is interested?

Thanks
ChilliestDy1an (or my brother who is in the same boat Hara1do)

unky chop chop

Ken vid with new buffs.
I gotta say he's looking top notch in this with the fast thunder kick,comboable crouching mp/hp and faster sweep like ryu. All the buffs he was meant to get in Super. Move over Ryu ya little B1tch

Azza

Kens sweep wasn't buffed.

unky chop chop

I'm 100% sure it was made faster..because those combos into sweep are not be possible in Super.He could only combo from 1 standing light jab to sweep in super and that was spacing specific.

Yep its down to 7 frames instead of 8.

http://shoryuken.com/f259/ssf4-ae-ken-improvement-thread-210528/index163.html

Ken B

unky chop chop wrote: »

Ken vid with new buffs.
I gotta say he's looking top notch in this with the fast thunder kick,comboable crouching mp/hp and faster sweep like ryu. All the buffs he was meant to get in Super. Move over Ryu ya little B1tch

That Cody player is among the worst I have ever seen.........

Sairus

Momochi put up his thoughts on Makoto from AE. It's mostly theory as he says he hasn't been able to get to an arcade much.

Momochi wrote: »

Makoto

I haven't been able to go the arcade, so lately I've been doing mental simulations and testing with the console version.

Karakusa → st.MP x 3 → MP Hayate
Works on:

Dudley, Gouken, Juri, Chun-Li, Dhalsim, Abel, Sagat, Cammy, Dee Jay, Guy, Hakan, Guile, Blanka, Zangief, Rufus, El Fuerte, Vega, Balrog, T.Hawk, Rose

Excluding Gouken, Chun-Li, Zangief, El Fuerte, and Rose from the above, st.HP → Hayate cancel → st.MP x2 → MP Hayate also works on these characters.

Incidentally, MPx3 also works on Yun and Yang. I haven't checked the HP Hayate feint combo, but it probably connects as well.

Damage (Stun) All starting with Karakusa

HP → HP Hayate 208 (376)
MPx2 → MP Hayate 218 (344)
MPx3 → MP hayate 250 (402)
HP → Hayate feint → MP → MP Hayate 238 (444)
HP → Hayate feint → MPx2 → MP Hayate 270 (502)

The difference between the maximum and the easier ones is about one mid-level attack. There's only a difference of 20 damage between HP and MP to start out with. Whichever it is, there's the difference in stun. On average stun (1000) characters, the HP → Hayate feint → MPx2 → MP Hayate combo will stun in two reps.

Which combos to use should be based on your skill and the situation. If you get used to them, they're reliable, so people who want to cram might ask if it's worth to practice them. Either way, if the st.HP Hayate feint doesn't link the MPx3 aren't worth much, so if you're negligent you'll drop combos more than you'd expect (laugh). There's no point in missing the link and then dying to your opponent who's mashing out ultra. In that situation, people who don't have that much confidence should look at the situation and go for the easier combos.

What that means is that with EX Hayate → Fukiage → EX Tsurugi corner combo, if you do start HP → EX Hayate, there's enough scaling so that there won't be an overwhelming difference, and I think doing damage should take priority. However, link combos build a good amount of meter. If you only have a bit more than 1 bar, HP → EX Hayate won't give you enough for EX Tsurugi, but with link combos you could build enough meter to do the EX Tsurugi and finish your opponent off, and I think that's the kind of situation should aim for.

So there's the above Fukiage → EX Tsurugi combo, you do the EX Tsurugi and a normal Tsurugi comes out!

Essentially EX commands are recognized even when the button presses aren't exactly at the same time and a small gap exists. The so-called plinking method works too, but if you test, it seems that with EX Tsurugi after a Fukiage jump cancel, if you don't push the buttons at the exact same time, it won't work. Of course, after a normal jump, EX Tsurugi works with plinking. I thought it wouldn't, so that's how it works... For that reason, you need to be aware that you always have to push at the same time when doing EX Tsurugi after a Fukiage jump cancel.

Unrelated, but MPx4 works on a crouching Akuma. Isn't Hayate FADC +4 in AE? In that case:

On crouching Akuma
j.HP → st.MPx4 → MP Hayate → FADC → st.LP → st.MPx3 → MP Hayate → FADC → st.LP → st.MPx3 → MP Hayate works! ﾜﾁｮ――ヽ(･∀･)ﾉ――ｲ (Literally, Wachoooooooi)

PS

In the above combo, since it's MP Hayate FADC it might be only +3? so it might be impossible.\(^o^)/
It would have been interesting as a flashy combo if it worked...

Placebo

unky chop chop wrote: »

I'm 100% sure it was made faster..because those combos into sweep are not be possible in Super.He could only combo from 1 standing light jab to sweep in super and that was spacing specific.

Yep its down to 7 frames instead of 8.

http://shoryuken.com/f259/ssf4-ae-ken-improvement-thread-210528/index163.html

shut up dave, Azza knows everything there is to know about SF

Kirby

Some sim updates if anyone wants them.

Normals got damage nerf. Not that big of a deal tbh.

Yoga Flame got a heavy damage nerf. As much as 60 dmg. Not good.

Jumping MP is now complete ass as its active hitbox got a heavy nerf. Won't be seeing that anymore.

On the plus side, Back MP has apparently been made quicker and hit box bigger. You know the one, its his little dinky dragon punch anti air move. I use it alot so im pleased with that.

Biggest nerf, Back Light kick got changed from 3 frames to 4 frames. It's slower now and will make combatting pressure much harder. I can see this meaning round over if you get anywhere near a corner now. No chance of escape.

Biggest buff is definately Down Back MP. Hitbox on it is huge now and apparently has more +frames. I can see this becoming his go-to poke as you can follow it up with EX flame apparently.


All in all, not to bad. Damage nerf isn't that big a deal really. If it takes 4 or 5 more pokes to win a match.....so be it. I can't see it changing outcomes of fights much.

Back Light kick nerf is annoying as hell but considering what other characters have been put through.....could've been alot worse.

Early days though.

Sairus

Kirby wrote: »

Yoga Flame got a heavy damage nerf. As much as 60 dmg. Not good.

Youch. Even if it's not used massively, a 60 dmg drop on any move is pretty harsh.

Also, word on the street (ie, the SRK Rose forum) from those playing AE is Rose's U2 is awful now. It's still not completely confirmed what the story is with the orbs not disappearing if she's hit during activation so I'm reserving judgement until then.

Apperantly there's a slight hitbox extension on her HP (where she flings the scarf out straight ahead of her). I basically never use it though, so not really an issue.

Better news is her Focus allegedly has a longer hitbox too. It's already a decent focus, but it currently has a deceptively short range.

Azza

No I was wrong, I had just recently checked the developer blog and it had not that buff listed or at least I didn't see it. But its been confirmed elsewhere.

unky chop chop

Ken B wrote: »

That Cody player is among the worst I have ever seen.........

It's not a real fight because Joon the Baboon is one of the top American Ken players still playing and I can tell you he don't fight like that.

@Farz, If you need any frame data analyzed come to me. Azza has lost his touch:)

Owwmykneecap

http://iplaywinner.com/news/2011/1/5/super-street-fighter-4-tier-list-january-2011.html



A: Akuma, Fei-Long, Guile, Cammy, Chun-Li, Dictator, Boxer, E. Honda, Abel
B: Ryu, Rufus, Dhalsim, C. Viper, Seth, Zangief, Ibuki, Sagat, Dudley, Blanka, DeeJay, Juri, Adon, Ken
C: Rose, Claw, El Fuerte, Guy, T. Hawk
Cody, Gouken, Gen, Makoto, Sakura, Dan, Hakan

UberPrinny_Baal

Man I can't keep up with Tier lists anymore.

2 tiers ago Deejay was 4:6 against T-Hawk, then 5:5 now he's 6:4.

Cody seems to have shot waaaaay down.

Are Dictator, Viper and Ryu really Akuma's (only) bad match ups?

Next tier we see will probably be AE based and then all this will go out the window.

Ken B

1st: Akuma
2nd: Fei Long

Hound..............tut, tut.

K.O.Kiki

Wow, look at Adon.

5:5 matchups against EVERYONE except 4 of the cast (with even split of 6:4 & 4:6)?

I feel so average.

Doctor DooM

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

Wow, look at Adon.

5:5 matchups against EVERYONE except 4 of the cast (with even split of 6:4 & 4:6)?

I feel so average.

You should just be enjoying the feeling of a balanced game while it lasts

K.O.Kiki

I already played a balanced game.

You never heard of Virtua Fighter 4: Evolution? :pac:

Misty Chaos

What I don't get is why the hell is Juri now higher on the tier list then freaking KEN!? ( Not that I mind or not happy with it, but still )

SirAuronDX

Awh yeah. my main is bottom tier!

Generic_name01

Lol dont worry Auron. Hakan is getting some sexy bells and whistles soon enough.

http://shoryuken.com/f335/hakan-arcade-edition-changes-258203/index4.html

Near the bottom of that link is a HUGE post by ultradavid. looks like its time to oil up!

D4RK ONION

Makoto is also likely to shoot up that list come AE, so there wont be much time for this new ranking to stick around!

K.O.Kiki

I love how you're all talking so optimistically.
Like we'll be able to play AE within a few days, instead of.
You know.

SOME TIME in the far future.

D4RK ONION

Regardless, it will eventually come to consoles and that's all that matters. Don't be such a party pooper Kiki!

Sairus

D4RK ONION wrote: »

Regardless, it will eventually come to consoles and that's all that matters. Don't be such a party pooper Kiki!

You can almost hear the desperation in the Makoto player's voice.

The Hound

It shows how closely balanced the game is. Akuma may be top and fei is certainly strong but theyre no run away leaders. I dont agree wit a lot in the tier list but its never gonna be how you want it to be. Sagat should be bottom like. Hakan and Makoto clearly own Sagat

Oh @ UberPrinny_Baal- I always said Ryu was Akumas worst match up and i still think it is. He's clearly a tough match for him. Cammy, Viper and Rog are hard as well

UberPrinny_Baal

The Hound wrote: »

Oh @ UberPrinny_Baal- I always said Ryu was Akumas worst match up and i still think it is. He's clearly a tough match for him. Cammy, Viper and Rog are hard as well

I don't know how to play Akuma and I don't really have any VS character knowledge beyond Deejay's. Akuma always seemed like one of the most versatile and powerful characters in the game to me, you just need to be able to play well enough to overcome his glass jaw (which I can't). I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on why these match-ups are bad.

I can imagine that Viper shuts down your distance game with her Seismo hammer, and that Rog's EX punch armour would be tricky to deal with.

I have no real idea about Ryu and Cammy on paper though.

joconnell

Ryu just has a basic enough solid game that is hard to get around. Main thing against akuma is his fireball recovery that makes it hard to punish on reaction and better length of pokes. In a slugfest he's going to win, he's got a good enough wakeup game to take away some of akumas options and doesn't need too many openings to kill akuma off (like most of the cast). Akuma really has to make the most of his chances and deal out max damage at every opportunity to win. Akuma has a huge array of options so if you've got the game plan and can **** with your opponents head (Which hound clearly can) then he can be nasty. Two equally skilled players I'd bet more on ryu though.

The Hound

UberPrinny_Baal wrote: »

I don't know how to play Akuma and I don't really have any VS character knowledge beyond Deejay's. Akuma always seemed like one of the most versatile and powerful characters in the game to me, you just need to be able to play well enough to overcome his glass jaw (which I can't). I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on why these match-ups are bad.

I can imagine that Viper shuts down your distance game with her Seismo hammer, and that Rog's EX punch armour would be tricky to deal with.

I have no real idea about Ryu and Cammy on paper though.

Viper and cammy are so fast with great pressure and mix ups. Cammy is so simple and effective against him. Her ultra shuts down a lot of akumas movements to escape and to zone, her Dp is like the anti akuma as well, as his dive kicks are very hard to stuff but Cammy's dp seems to do it well and she has os spin knuckle to ultra.Her trades are great, especially dp trade as she gets vannila damage then another dp or ultra. Spirral arrow and ex spirral arrow shut down akumas zoning. Her ultra shuts down akuma once she has it and especially if she gets in as it will punish teleport.

Ryu just doesnt ever need to leave the ground, he just has to play footsies(or not) and just zone akuma just outside the footsie range, akuma has to (as always) land a sweep for knockdown and mix it up but with Ryu its always a risk with his abiltiy to punish jump ins and once again trades in Ryus favor for what seems to be massive damage on akuma. He can also punish air hados with sweep which can trade in his favor. Os tatsus is great. His dp is 3 frames, his trades are great for ultra, ex use of meter and even just the 2nd part of the dp. Ryu can os tatsu to catch akumas teleport. Ryus ultra is great against akumas zoning tools as well.

Rog is a nightmare as Rog is, but against akuma his headbutt to ultra does a lot of damage where as on everyone else its not too bad. rog can punish fireballs with full ultra, ex armor rush punches and turn punch to catch teleports.

Viper is the one that I'm not sure off but Tokido said its Akumas worst match up. I think its her speed and air to ground game which covers so much of the screen, which is crazy. She can just super jump after him or ex thunder knuckle to catch his teleports. Its very hard to block against viper. Not sure if you've ever played a good viper. Deejay might do fine against her idk. I know she does well vs Guile or did in vanilla.

All in all i think the fast characters do well against akuma. Like i said i think the tier list is wrong with the match ups. Akuma is very strong and top 5 or 10. Imo Adon beats Akuma as well. I dont know why bison is 6-4. Seems 5-5 to me. You gotta be really on your game to win with Akuma especially if the opponent knows his tricks and set ups etc. Ppl just need to get lucky against akuma once but hes defo worth the risk.

The Hound

PS

Ryu Can Just Go Suck A lemon!