Ultra Street Fighter 4 Discussion Thread

Doctor DooM

AFAIK It wasn't straight buffs for Deejay- he got the counter hit nerf to air slasher that Guile got to the boom.

While it's bad for Guile, this is waaay worse for poor Deejay as he doesn't recover as fast.

Malice

Jim wrote: »

Can't tell if you're being sarcastic, but I'll bite.

Battle Points.

I wasn't being sarcastic at all. I'm too new to this game (and this forum) for that. Now I just have to go and find out what Battle Points are in the context of SSFIV.

Doctor DooM

Malice wrote: »

I wasn't being sarcastic at all. I'm too new to this game (and this forum) for that. Now I just have to go and find out what Battle Points are in the context of SSFIV.

They're points you win for, well, winning a battle

You get PP (player points) which you win or lose no matter who you chose but BP is character specific, therefore technically you should be able to tell how "good" someone is with a character (for example my BP with Guile is about 8,000, so when I played the Mordor Mashup lads for the first time they were quite wary of me as their average BP with their main chars was about 4-6 thousand).

However grinding kinda works to an extent with bp.

BP is measured differently in the arcade version though (you could never earn the level of BP the top Japs earn even playing 24/7) and I am not exactly sure how it's measured.

Fergus_

Pffft, she's awesome now

Placebo

Fergus_ wrote: »

Pffft, she's awesome now

yeah.......online !

bush

Doctor DooM wrote: »

their average BP with their main chars was about 4-6 thousand

Scrubs.

K.O.Kiki

TIER LISTS MEAN NOTHING.

This is the only tier part that matters:

D (crap) tier:
Hakan, Dan

Placebo

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

TIER LISTS MEAN NOTHING.

This is the only tier part that matters:

D (crap) tier:
Hakan, Dan

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

In fairness, 3S is perilously close to being a 2-horse race.

S tier:
SA3 Yun, SA2 Chun

A tier:
SA3 Ken, SA2 Makoto, SA3 Dudley

A- tier:
SA1 Akuma, SA3 Urien

B+ tier:
SA1 Ibuki, SA2 Alex, SA2 Yang

C tier:
Elena, Necro, Oro, Ryu, Hugo

Crap tier:
Q, Twelve, Sean

"Little emo wanker" tier:
Remy

(tier list is approximate)

.

K.O.Kiki

... shut up Farz.

I phrased it wrong.

Anyway SF4 is a young game, and tier lists can only tell you how hard you can expect a given match-up to be IF YOU LOOK AT THE MATCH-UP CHART FOR THAT GIVEN CHARACTER.

The numerical position of your fighter is useless.

For instance, even though Adon is at "no. 25", I'd much rather fight a Sagat or Ryu than Deejay or El Fuerte.

erinsoup

That list wasn't even a tier list based on matchups, its an AE character usage chart I believe. Arcade players. Correct me if I'm wrong but Sagat wasn't massively buffed or changed in the new version. Alot of these guys have only been playing vanilla up until now, which would explain stuff like sagat's and akuma's position in this list.

Kiki_talks_balance_again wrote:

This is the only tier part that matters:

D (crap) tier:
Hakan, Dan

You got that so backwards man.

Johnick

erinsoup wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong but Sagat wasn't massively buffed or changed in the new version.

Correct, only changes he got were

1. Tiger Uppercut does the same damage as it did in Vanilla, but only if it hits on the first 3 active frames
2. Standing light kick does more damage and is super cancellable.
3. Angry Scar's motion was changed due to a problem with the input shortcuts randomly making his super come out sometimes by accident.

Thats it, however as most people have said about AE, projectile characters are weaker. But Sagat is the only projectile character who didn't get any nerf's, its not that he got buffed, just that all the other projectile characters got nerfed.

Fergus_

Johnick wrote: »

Correct, only changes he got were

1. Tiger Uppercut does the same damage as it did in Vanilla, but only if it hits on the first 3 active frames
2. Standing light kick does more damage and is super cancellable.
3. Angry Scar's motion was changed due to a problem with the input shortcuts randomly making his super come out sometimes by accident.

Thats it, however as most people have said about AE, projectile characters are weaker. But Sagat is the only projectile character who didn't get any nerf's, its not that he got buffed, just that all the other projectile characters got nerfed.

Actually Sakura recieved no nerfs either and she has a fireball

Johnick

Fergus_ wrote: »

Actually Sakura recieved no nerfs either and she has a fireball

My bad, though like Sagat the general consensus is she's also gotten a lot better.

Fergus_

Johnick wrote: »

My bad, though like Sagat the general consensus is she's also gotten a lot better.

No problem, she's easily forgotten :pac:

The Hound

Johnick wrote: »

Correct, only changes he got were

1. Tiger Uppercut does the same damage as it did in Vanilla, but only if it hits on the first 3 active frames
2. Standing light kick does more damage and is super cancellable.
3. Angry Scar's motion was changed due to a problem with the input shortcuts randomly making his super come out sometimes by accident.

Thats it, however as most people have said about AE, projectile characters are weaker. But Sagat is the only projectile character who didn't get any nerf's, its not that he got buffed, just that all the other projectile characters got nerfed.

Tiger Uppercut does 100 damage now. It's getting buffed by 20 if it hits on the first 3 active frames. Thats not much of a buff but its not vanilla damage. Vanilla damge HP TU did 170 and in AE it will do 120. Also the st LK buff is useless. It cant be cancelled. Im no sure about st LK being super cancelled, but thats useless.

J0hnick

Ok, here's the changes from the official blog

Normal Moves

• The total damage is increased on Standing Light Kick when both hits get connected.

• As before, only 1st hit is Special Cancelable.

Special Moves

• Tiger Uppercut's damage is increased when connected at the first 3 active frames.

• There has been many complaints about Angry Scar that it comes out when unintended, so we changed its command to Kick buttons instead.

Overall

As there were huge changes in transition from vanilla Street Fighter 4 to SSF4, there are no changes in Arcade Edition to anything besides damage and command adjustments.

Being appropriate for his name as the King, he retains the potential to be a top class in SSF4 Arcade Edition

End

Ok so I got the amount of damage buffed wrong , you'd know more then me seeing as he's one of your mains.

FutureGuy

J0hnick wrote: »

30. Deejay

lololol

Doctor DooM

FutureGuy wrote: »

lololol

Just because no top Japanese player isn't using him doesn't mean he isn't ALOT better..Might be interesting to see how he does in America seeing as he's one of Mike Ross' mains.

Placebo

lol? im assuming chun can hop on his head much easily now?

Doctor DooM

Is that his new hitbox on start up?

That's ridiculous looking, like if Guile booms and he lariats, it looks like guile could just max range st hp now.

Azza

Afraid not. Lariat will be still godly anti-air. You won't be able to jump at him still in AE.

Lariat is invincible from the knees up during its 3 start up frames. Meaning only low moves, extremely low hitting jump ins (Adon's neutral J.HK, very meaty Headstomp) or throws will catch him during start up.

If you jump at Gief, he can perform lariat late from a crouch position that will either win clean or trade. Same thing when you jump at Gief rising from a knockdown.

You can always stuff the lariat with an air attack after lariat is already gone active. But you will rarely have an opportunity to do so.

The only difference in this picture to his current lariat is that his hurtbox around his feet appears higher up.

Azza

That isn't that start up of the lariat. Looks like frame 23 to me :P


First active frame of lariat. The next two frames are very similar.
These are the frames of lariat that can be FADC and also the only frames of lariat that hit crouchers.

Doctor DooM

lol I love the teeny hurtbox in his head

Azza

Thats not a hurtbox.

The solid yellow boxes represent the physical space your character takes up on the screen. You can't pass through the solid yellow boxes. So when one characters yellow box meets another characters yellow box they can't pass through them.

The red lined box around Gief's head and armed his hurtbox, as is the green lined box around his feet. The difference is red lined boxes are immune to projectiles, where as the green hurtbox gets hit by both, A mute point in this case as no projectile goes low enough to hit that hitbox. Hence the reason why Gief can lariat through projectiles.

Scavenger XIII

Azza wrote: »

A mute point in this case as no projectile goes low enough to hit that hitbox. Hence the reason why Gief an lariat through projectiles.

So SNK characters would wreck 'Gief. :pac:

Azza

Don't follow....I know nothing about SNK games.

Sairus

Azza wrote: »

A mute point in this case as no projectile goes low enough to hit that hitbox.

Just to be nit-picky for the hell of it, Juri can do it. :pac:

Azza

Oh yeah forgot about that. However that only applies to the 3 start up frames of lariat. Once Gief goes active with the lariat his feet have projectile immunity as well.

UberPrinny_Baal

Azza wrote: »

Don't follow....I know nothing about SNK games.

I've only played a little of CvS2, but most of the "main" SNK chars seemed to send energy waves along the ground, instead of conventional fireballs.

erinsoup

The vertical solid yellow ones are usually called collision boxes. The horizontal ones are for proximity guarding (they really should've used a different colour). If you hold back when your character is in range of one of these, you'll proximity guard as opposed to walking backwards.

Even an air fireball can hit that low sometimes, but yea gief just keeps spinning. Can't burn those boots.

Doctor DooM wrote:

That's ridiculous looking, like if Guile booms and he lariats, it looks like guile could just max range st hp now.

He can and should already do that, it's probably the ideal punish for the situation. I'm not sure what the AE blog post gief change was supposed to be. Unless the translation is off, that's already how it works. It might just be explaining a Vanilla -> AE change.