Need a flash - recommendations / advice please

.Longshanks.

I just been asked by a friend to take some indoor crèche shots of kids and staff for their website. It will be in a month’s time and I’ve will never have been in the premises before.

I have a canon 1000D and the kit lens, 50mm 1.8, and sigma 10-20mm. So lens wish I should be ok. But I’m thinking an external flash will be a must as it might be too dull and the inbuilt one will be too harsh?

Can somebody please advice on a relatively cheap one that comes recommended? My budget is up to €200, but hopefully adverts / ebay would come up with a better deal?

Also, I was hoping to get into off camera shots using wireless triggers at some point in the near future (was originally thinking that a canon 430EX would be Christmas present from other half).

I know the 430EX can do this (off camera shots with extra wireless triggers), but after this I know nothing about flashes. If in need to buy a flash then I would rather get one now that can be triggered wirelessly in the future.

I’m eager to lean, but I think I need to get practicing quicker than originally thought

peter1892

A 430EX (or 430 EXII) would probably be fine in this case. You may want to get a diffuser for it to make the light a little less harsh, of course you can always bounce the light off the ceiling if working indoors. Price wise the 430EXII is about €300 in the shops here, you might find some good deals online though. And it works well with wireless triggers.

Sigma also make flashes for Canon EOS cameras that might be a little cheaper.

For info on the whole off camera flash thing have a look here: http://www.strobist.blogspot.com/

oshead

Photographing interiors is a lot different than shooting portraits of one or two people. You need a lot of light and it needs to be dispersed very evenly. This is very difficult to do.

The first thing i'd do is to evaluate your cameras ability while shooting at high ISO levels. I'm taking 1600 or 3200, if the cameras ISO goes that high. You may not need to use flash at all if the results are any good. If the images are to be lo-res for the web, then you may get away with less than the best signal to noise ratio.

Are there to be people in all the shots? If so you will have to keep the shutter speeds fairly fast. Especially for children. Probably 125sec at the lowest. Combine that with apertures of say f11 to f16 (you might get away with lower f stop on a wide angle lense) and you could have a mighty problem if the creche is on the dark side. For shots with no people in them, just use a tripod and longer shutter speeds.

If you do go down the flash route, You'll have to decide if the flash is the key or the fill light. This is important, cos no doubt you'll have issues with colour balance issues of peoples skins from the fluorescent lights and window light. You'll probably need a couple of flashes mounted with cheap 60" umberellas. Depending on the size of the creche that is. To get any decent range from them you can to up your ISO a little bit and widen the aperature.

Ideally, you should go to the creche the day before the shoot to setup and evaluate your lighting options. Search for hot spots and dark areas and make adjustments as necessary.

Hope this dosn't scare you too much. I'm sure you'll have fun figuring this out on the day.

David OS

.Longshanks.

David - excellent advice! Getting to the crèche before hand is a non runner - too many reasons.
My camera goes to ISO 1600, but 800 seems to me its acceptable limits for noise. Kilds will be in the majority of shots - and they will preferably be playing so a tripod will probably be out...

A couple of flashes would obviously be ideal, but this is more a favour and im thinking of getting a single flash for now as its something i had originally planned on doing around Christmas. If it works out then it could lead to other bigger things.

Any more tips?

Cheers
Kevin

oshead

Longshanks100 wrote: »

Any more tips?

Cheers
Kevin

If you don't mind me ranting on.....

If you are going to go with 1 flash then I'd look at getting the most from ISO. Do you need the images to be very large. I think not if they are for a web page. You'd be susprised how good an image looks at 640 x 480 res and ISO 1600 or 3200.

For the flash you could use an Omni-Bounce diffuser. Pickup a generic one from Keaphoto for €6. This sends the light out in all directions and you loose about a stop of light. It dosn't soften the light too much, but because the light bounces off everything and in all directions, it can make the shadows look less harsh. If you can afford the extra few quid for a flash, get the 580EX II. This will give you the most flexability for now and the in future as you add more flashes to your kit.

Essentially you need to get the flash off the camera. There's a few ways to do this. Probably the easiest and cheapest is to buy an ETTL chord that attaches the flash to the camera hot shoe. Holding the flash at arms lenght with the omni-bounce attached and ETTL doing all the work and you're bound to get very reasonable results. All you'll have to do is decide how you want to balance the ambient light with the flash. This can be done by metering the ambient light with your camera and then using Flash Exposure Compensation (FEC) to balance to your liking. Tip, Underexpose the FEC by a couple of stops to show detail in the background. Google Shutter Drag for a more detailed explanation.

Alternatively you could buy an ebay trigger system. The only problem with these for a beginner is you have to control the flash manually by setting it up before the shot. Not so difficult really, but you need to practice to get any good at it.

.Longshanks.

Thanks million for all that. I'll have a good read of all that advice and the google link you provided over the weekend.

.....i may be back to you with more questions!

oshead

One more thing.

As Pete said, Go to strobist.com to get more insight to all of the things discussed here. The only problem with that site is, it has a huge amount of information and can be a bit overwhelming at first. One place you could start on that site is here, one-light-real-estate-photography.

5uspect

Ian Kerr does a good deal on the 580ex.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BRAND-NEW-CANON-580EX-MK-II-IN-SCOTLAND_W0QQitemZ390097330061QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CamerasPhoto_DigitalCameras_DigitalCameras_JN?hash=item5ad39cdf8d&_trksid=p4634.c0.m14.l1262

email him and he'll do you a good deal off ebay.
I bought mine from him.

positivenote

sorry for high-jacking this thread a bit, but where can one do a course on photographic lighting? i done a little about 8 years ago when i was in college but its all well gone out of my memory.
im based in dublin
THanks

joconnell

positivenote wrote: »

sorry for high-jacking this thread a bit, but where can one do a course on photographic lighting? i done a little about 8 years ago when i was in college but its all well gone out of my memory.
im based in dublin
THanks

Strobist.com to start with - they've got a series of 101 articles which'll cover a huge amount on lighting for free.

padocon

I have a 430EX and it has a (wireless) slave function, I hear people talking about wireless devices you can get on ebay cheap to trigger it off camera. I have had the flash over a year and it's going great! I use it with a defuser, there is one thats built in but I think an external defuser is great especially for indoor shots. Someone above said about bouncing it off walls & ceilings this is great as you get a really nicely lit shot. You can make your own defuser out of milk carton if you want, or bounce the flash off a reflector.

There is a good book mainly about flash, written by the guy on photoshop user tv. If interested ask me & I will route out the name of it.

TJJP

I've a 580 and 430 and use the off camera, but for kids and action it might not be a runner. For the budget suggested, Conn's (I know, I know) have an offer on a SIGMA EF-530 DG ST ETTL at €199 which might not be a bad option. Lots of power and flexibility. You'd likely give the same for a used 430.

http://www.connscameras.ie/flat_areaEQLproductsAMPCategoryIDEQL10177_entry.html

.Longshanks.

TJJP wrote: »

I've a 580 and 430 and use the off camera, but for kids and action it might not be a runner. For the budget suggested, Conn's (I know, I know) have an offer on a SIGMA EF-530 DG ST ETTL at €199 which might not be a bad option. Lots of power and flexibility. You'd likely give the same for a used 430.

http://www.connscameras.ie/flat_areaEQLproductsAMPCategoryIDEQL10177_entry.html

I've actually found a used 430ex (not the II) for sale since for €115. Seems like a good price for getting started...?

TJJP

For sure. At that price buy it and worry about results later. The 430ex is a great flash and will serve you well. Has bounce and twist and a guide of 43 (?), it'll do you fine as long as it will do ETTL-II (ya what now Gay?), but it seems you're sorted - http://www.dpreview.com/news/0508/05082206canon430ex.asp

potlatch

Has no one mentioned Metz flashes?

I've always been really happy with them. I bought a new ETTL-II one for my Canon 400D and I'm really pleased with it. The head swivels 360 degrees and 100 degrees vertically, and has a built-in reflector. The exposure control is great and the price is right.

yoshytoshy

I've an almost new 430 I've never used ,I'll stick it up on adverts.ie